[Fossil (OP)]

I have read that the memory span of a gold fish is three seconds. How do the test for that?

[Fossil (OP)]

I mean how do THEY test for that.  duh.

[neilep]

Sorry...what was your question again ?.....[]

Yes, I've also heard the same thing though.

It would also be intresting to find out not just how they have been tested for that but WHY do they only have a three second memory span[?]
 In fact does memory retention differ far and wide across the animal kingdom ?

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'  

[Fossil (OP)]

I guess my question is how do they test a gold fish for their memory. Memory is different than imprinting. How can it be quantified in a fish? They must have to know something first and then tested to see how long they remember it? When I read it I though what a great piece of trivia, but pondered further I just wondered how do they know?

[Donnah]

I don't know how they would test for that, but I've had numerous golfish and they all remembered what the can of fish food meant, and I only fed them once a day.

[Ultima]

Maybe they are looking at the amount of neurons in a fish brain, and making a wild guess.

wOw the world spins?

[bezoar]

I'm not sure that's true.  I have fish now, although admittedly not goldfish, but they know to come to the top of the tank and eat when I tap the glass.

[MayoFlyFarmer]

you can make reasonable estimates at learning/emeory/etc in animals they aren't 100% precise.  I'm not sure how they would test memory in goldfish exactly, but think of the age old stereo typical mouse in a maze test.

That's no moon.... its a GRAPEFRUIT!!!!

[chris]

I asked fish-behaviour expert Jens Krause, from Leeds University, this very question... about fish rapidly forgetting things... during an interview 2 years ago.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/html/shows/2002.06.09.htm

chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Broca]

Do they remember what the food means when they see the can or when the food hits the top of the water. When it is in the water then I think it becomes instinct as opposed to memory.

[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by Broca

Do they remember what the food means when they see the can or when the food hits the top of the water. When it is in the water then I think it becomes instinct as opposed to memory.

I just popped into my local aquarium and asked some gold fish....no answer I'm afraid...perhaps by the time I finished asking them they had forgotten the question [].... but seriously,  I would have thought to eat is just another rudimentary basic insinct that all living creatures have to have to enable survival, so when they see the food, some instinct tells them, plus, perhaps they can smell it too ?....It would be fascinating to know if they do recognise the can of food though.....almost makes you wonder if they can be trained....for what though...I wouldn't know...but then my intelligence span is about three seconds long as well[]

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'  

[Donnah]

quote:Originally posted by Broca

Do they remember what the food means when they see the can or when the food hits the top of the water. When it is in the water then I think it becomes instinct as opposed to memory.

It was the can that they recognized.  My son's cat recognized the pop of the fish food can opening and would do a flying leap onto the table and dig his paw into the can and help himself.  Catfish I guess.

[neilep]

My cat had the same reaction....could hear the sound of the can opener opening his can a mile away (sorry 1.6km)!!...well..I never really measured it but you get the idea.....

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'  

[zgeistusa]

This is anecdotal, I know...but I do believe golds can develop some medium-term memory based on my experience with our pond.

When they "hear" the screen door slam, they immediate swim to the side where they usually are fed and present their open mouths. The reason I say "medium-term" memory is that they seem to loose the connection between the door slam and food over the winter.

When it's time to start feeding again in April, they rarely present themselves. By May, it's getting better. By June, it's automatic.

This cycle has repeated itself for 5 years.

For what it's worth....

[Broca]

Pavlovian in nature?  Welcome zgeist!

[Quantumcat]

My goldfish came to the left side of the surface at five o clock every day, because he knew he would be fed. Surely goldfish can't have memories of five seconds.

Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!

[tweener]

Isn't there a difference between "memory" and "conditioning"?  It seems that memory would be more like "I've been here before and know how to get to there" while conditioning would be more like "the can is here, my hunger reflex is triggered".  Or something like that.

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[OmnipotentOne]

Thats actually really interesting, like we can create an artificial instinct for the fish.

[bezoar]

These fish see the red bag and come to the top.  I can just put the bag by the tank, or knock on the glass and they know to come to the top.

[OzzMosiz]

Goldfish have a lot longer memory than 5 seconds. My goldfish will come to the front of the aquarium when they see me near by, they won't do this for anyone else, they'll also do this when I get back from a week away. Also someone said about fish not coming to the side with mouths open in the winter and related this to memory. The cold weather causes goldfish to lower their metabolism and go into an almost hybernation period. Food is scare in the winter, so goldfish become very inactive to conserve energy, so I wouldn't relate that to memory.