[qpan (OP)]

I found this article and found it a very interesting read with many valid points on why this part of the bible is completel balony.

http://www.angelfire.com/ks/luciferian/noah.html

Comments are welcome from atheists and non-atheists alike!

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

[OmnipotentOne]

Personally I think I'm to young to question my religion.  But that DOES raise awkward points about that topic.  How could 8 people build a super tanker?  Isnt't there some myth that they found parts of the boat high up in a mountain, but the countrys governemnt wont let anyone up there?

To see a world in a grain of sand.

[DrN]

I've always wondered about the state of the gene pool myself.

if there were only two animals per species, i.e. one set of parents, there will be very limited genetic variation, and as we know from reports on endangered species, populations as relatively large as 20 can die out through lack of genetic variability (susceptibility to disease, adaptation to altered environments).

then there's the cross breeding issue, limited genetic variability is much more likely to produce mutant offspring among the 'grandchildren'.

but (in my opinion) it is only a story. made up to explain phenomena that they didn't understand back then (evolution, plate tectonics etc), just as we do now (They're called hypotheses!)

[gsmollin]

The term is "genetic drift", if memory serves. There's a cool simulation on the web, somewhere, that shows how the offspring's genetics will become biased, and drift away from the norm, if there is insufficient genetic variability from generation to generation. As I recall, this became clearly evident at around 150 breeding pairs.

I don't think there's much hope in the story being literally true. Like many other bible stories, this is a parable, told to ignorant peasants.

I once had a discussion with a creationist, while on an airplane, about the bible's account. I told him at one point, "What's a supreme being to do? Tell the "ants" the truth? Who would understand? So a simple, fireside story is better. If God told us the truth today, would we understand? When we are ready for that, I think we will figure it out for ourselves. I believe that is why we have the knowledge of the difference between good and evil. The world is right there, in front of our eyes, and if we could see it, the answers are already evident."

[qpan (OP)]

Or the alternative viewpoint is that even if god did exist, he probably had nothing to do with authoring the bible. God probably would have come up with a few more instersting stories which were also a bit more consistent in terms of details.

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

[Senseless]

these ideas of why the bible is balony IS balony, if you have ever tried to actually fit all anmials in a arc, and saw if the boat
WAS seaworthy and had GOd supernatural creation energy on your side, then you can say its balony. You guys are too much.

Greg Badalian

[Senseless]

there was in inbreeding, they had wives created from ribs like adamn.. you guys are so silly for believin this.

Greg Badalian

[qpan (OP)]

quote:Originally posted by Senseless

there was in inbreeding, they had wives created from ribs like adamn.. you guys are so silly for believin this.

Greg Badalian

Sorry, but i thought we were the silly ones who didn't believe in this.

And what about adamn's ribs?

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

[chris]

Adam obviously had a few "spare ribs"...b-boom.

Anyway, to refer back to the point raised earlier regarding genetic variation and extinction, some marine biologists have suggested that the Great White shark (made famous by Peter Benchley's Jaws) may already be 'genetically' extinct.

Large populations bring with them a broad variation in the gene pool which, in turn, provides resistance to disease.

What we mean by this is that for any given gene there can be many different versions, known as alleles, which do the same job in each person, but produce an end-result that is slightly different. Take eye colour for example - there are alleles for blue eyes and alleles for brown eyes. The genes do the same job - they affect the colour of your eyes - but the end result is slightly different - one person has blue eyes, another brown.

So if a disease appeared that killed people with brown eyes, but spared people with blue eyes (this is obviously an extreme example), you can immediately see how having an alternative allele for eye colour would be beneficial.

But blue eyes are not that common in the UK population - brown eyes (the 'dominant' form) occur the majority of the time. So if the population were eroded (in the same way that the shark population has been destroyed by hunting) then it is likely that eventually you would reach a state where only brown eyed people were left behind (because there are so many of them to start with). Now, if our contrived disease that only kills brown eyed people came along, there would be no blue eyed people left to continue the species and we would become genetically extinct.

This is an extreme simplification but I think it goes some way to explaining why you can't just take the world's last 2 Pandas and clone them 500 times to regenerate the Panda population.

Indeed, the lack of diversity would make them very susceptible to diseases which can evolve much more quickly than they can. Precisely this process led to the Irish potato famine in the 1840's. The strain of potato plants being grown in Ireland at that time were all genetically identical. So when a mould called Phytophthora infestans came along, every single plant was susceptible, yields plummeted, and people starved.

This highlights 2 things - firstly, sex is very important - enabling the swapping around of genes (see Adel Fattah's article on the importance of sexual reproduction - http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/adelcolumn2.htm) and secondly, that genetic variation is very important too.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[gsmollin]

Well... We all knew that sex was important, but can I quote you on how important it is to have sex with a lot of people, say 500 or so, to prevent genetic drift from making the human specis extinct?

[OmnipotentOne]

I second that!

To see a world in a grain of sand.

[chris]

Sorry gs, but with the human population exceeding 6 billion it's hard to argue that we need to improve our reproductive fitness []. That said, the white population in the UK has a negative population growth (births not keeping up with deaths). It would appear that careers are taking precedence over families.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Zichichi]

quote:Originally posted by qpan

I found this article and found it a very interesting read with many valid points on why this part of the bible is completel balony.

http://www.angelfire.com/ks/luciferian/noah.html [nofollow]

Comments are welcome from atheists and non-atheists alike!

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

I don't think in the Bible Noah's Ark is real as the snake that speaks.....
Does the lamb speak also? We know the lamb represents...Jesus
I think Noah's Ark realistically is described in Mattew 24, 37..........


nothing is created and nothing is destroyed

[neilep]

If Noaks ark did exist, then it's a good job it only had two wood lice !!...I'm sure the two were very happy with the 'all you can eat' situation they were put in !

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'