[girlwind]

I am going to call my nurse practioner again today and request she send Waldinger's treatise to the Endo. In order that I be
more prepared, can you tell me exactly what the tests below mean that Waldinger used on his two patients ?

Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary testicular insufficiency;
total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref: 8.3–34 nmo1/1),
free testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref: 45–108 pmo1/1),
dehydroxytestosterone 0.62 nmo1/1 (ref: 0.90–3.70 nmo1/1),
LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0),
FSH 25.8 U/1 (ref: 2.0–8.0),
prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75–275 mU/1).

Endocrine investigation revealed eugonadism:
total testosterone 14.8 nmo1/ 1 (ref 8.3–34.0 nmo1/1),
SHBG 20 nmo1/1 (ref 20–55 nmo1/1),
LH 3.2 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0),
FSH 4.6 U/1 (ref: 2.0–8.0),
PSA 0.4 μg/1 (ref < 4.0 μg/1).

Hi Steve--I think you will be much better off in the long run if you learn how to read the lab results yourself.
It's really pretty simple. The way it's listed here is in the order of: 1) Name of Test  2) Result 3) Reference Range.
I put it in columns to make it easier for you, and I will describe it for you below so you can get the gist of it.

These results mean that the first person was: a little low in total testosterone, very low in free testosterone
and dehydroxytestosterone, high in FSH, and more or less in THAT LAB'S NORMAL RANGE on the other tests.
Hence the conclusion was "primary testicular insufficiency."

The second person was on the low end in SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), and in THAT LAB'S NORMAL
RANGE on other tests. That's probably why W. describes that case as "eugonadism."

Personally, I'm not that inspired by Waldinger. I think he had only a small limited number of patients that he
investigated. And he didn't show much interest in helping us at the POIS forum. Also, his test list doesn't in-
clude ANY thyroid tests (or ferritin, which is so important in thyroid functioning), or DHEA, or even cortisol.
WHY?  All the hormones work together and it seems that a thorough work-up would include more lab data.

Because my health problems are much more serious than POIS, I've moved on to studying the WHOLE PICTURE
of my entire hormone profile, and what that means to me in real life terms. The tests I've listed on this forum's
first page are very comprehensive and covered most of what I needed to know. I hope they'll be of help to you too.

[SteveD (OP)]

Because my health problems are much more serious than POIS, I've moved on to studying the WHOLE PICTURE
of my entire hormone profile, and what that means to me in real life terms. The tests I've listed on this forum's
first page are very comprehensive and covered most of what I needed to know. I hope they'll be of help to you too.

 Girlwind,

I needed to have some rationale for requesting these tests. Waldinger apparently did not think this was a sexological problem or he wouldn't have ordered the endocronological tests. I don't think that this Endo will address this problem. He'll only look at the vitamin D, B-12 and iron deficiencies...but I'll query him.

Thanks,

Steve D.

[girlwind]

Girlwind,

I needed to have some rationale for requesting these tests. Waldinger apparently did not think this was a sexological problem or he wouldn't
have ordered the endocronological tests. I don't think that this Endo will address this problem. He'll only look at the vitamin D, B-12 and iron deficiencies...but I'll query him.

Thanks,
Steve D.

I understand. However, you should know that you DO NOT NEED AN M.D. to order blood tests. Any acupuncturist,
or even a chiropractor, can do that for you. And now you can even order them yourself ay MyMedLab.com  Once you
have the RESULTS in your hands, with PROOF of any imbalances, then it's easier to get a doctor (maybe even an endo)
to pay attention to your issue. I know it's backasswards, but that is the unfortunate reality of the medical world.

"Faith is an island in the setting sun, but PROOF is the bottom line for everyone." (Paul Simon)   []

[SteveD (OP)]

Check in, 2/26/09:

My partner and I have been intentionally abstemious for five days from arousal behaviors. Last night, we engaged in arousal behaviors, but no genital contact. I felt kind of blurry early in the day, but that may be attributable to a strong antibiotic and cough medicine I took last night. The pre-orgasmic effects of sex are still very real for me.
  However , having dialed down the genital contact to zero has made me extremely present the last six days and I have been on fire in my life as a consequence. My teaching has improved, my emotional availability for my daughter is dramatically increased and my musical practicing has increased. I've done two public speaking engagements , my food is dramatically better (this may be the biggest change). I cleaned out a closet and several cabinets, been more powerfully available for spiritual mentorship, gardened more, took my first swim lesson in 45 years and even spent some time watching Youtube...just for fun.

 I am grateful and committed to my partner for her unselfish willingness to participate in this experiment to heal pre orgasmic sexual illness.

[SteveD (OP)]

I think you will be much better off in the long run if you learn how to read the lab results yourself.  However, you should know that you DO NOT NEED AN M.D. to order blood tests.  I know it's backasswards, but that is the unfortunate reality of the medical world.

Girlwind,

I am currently scheduled for:
CBC,
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel,
Iron Panel,
Lipid Panel,
Vitamin B-12
T4, Free,
TSH Ultrasensitive,
T3 Total,
Testosterone, Free and Total
Vitamin D level

Part of loving myself comes in the form of taking care of myself physically , including good medical care. Another part of loving myself is taking care of myself financially. The above tests are all free for me. I'll spend some time researching what other tests mean and what might be helpful. The MyMedLab.com sight was very enlightening.

Thanks,

Steve D.

[girlwind]

I am currently scheduled for:
CBC,
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel,
Iron Panel,
Lipid Panel,
Vitamin B-12
T4, Free,
TSH Ultrasensitive,
T3 Total,
Testosterone, Free and Total
Vitamin D level

Part of loving myself comes in the form of taking care of myself physically , including good medical care. Another part of loving myself is taking care of myself financially. The above tests are all free for me. I'll spend some time researching what other tests mean and what might be helpful. The MyMedLab.com sight was very enlightening.

Most of those tests will be pretty helpful to determine: any basic nutritional deficiencies, issues with iron absorption, fat
metabolism/cholesterol, and glaring immunity issues. The CMP will also reveal some things about basic liver and kidney
functioning.

Regarding the thyroid tests: If you can replace the T3 Total with a Free T3 that is the MUCH MORE DEFINITIVE test. It
actually tells you how much thyroid hormone is actively circulating in the blood. As I recall, your previous tests indicated a
low in one of the thyroid hormones, so if it was me I would want an update on that. Also, a TPO (for thyroid antibodies)
would be helpful. And the Reverse T3 is very revealing for those of us with adrenal issues (mine was WAY OFF.)

The Free T3 was THE DEFINITIVE TEST IN MY CASE. Had I not done it, I would have NOT KNOWN that I have a problem
with my thyroid. If only someone had done that test 30 years ago, it could have spared me many years in hell.

You can read more about the importance of getting the most useful thyroid tests in these articles.

http://www.mercola.com/article/hypothyroid/diagnosis_comp.htm
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm

[girlwind]

Steve--

I just remembered that you had some issues with low iron...? Is that correct.  If so, you want to be sure to have
FERRITIN test. Hopefully that is included in your iron panel.

With TOO LOW FERRITIN your body cannot utilize the T3 (thyroid hormone). It would not have enough red
blood cells to carry thyroid hormone to the tissues.

[SteveD (OP)]

Girlwind

Did you learn anything personally  from your LSH and FSH?

Steve

[girlwind]

Girlwind

Did you learn anything personally  from your LSH and FSH?

Unfortunately I did those tests at the WRONG time of month, so they were inconclusive. (It would have been a good
idea if the doctor had specified this to me BEFORE I wasted my money on them!)


HERE'S WHAT I READ ABOUT THE LH and FSH TEST online:

"When is the LH TEST ordered?
In women and men, LH (along with FSH) is ordered as part of the workup of infertility and pituitary or gonadal disorders.

The test may be ordered along with an FSH test if a women is having irregular menstrual periods to help determine if she has reached
menopause. LH and FSH may be ordered when a boy or girl does not appear to be entering puberty at an appropriate age (either too
late or too soon). Signs of puberty may include: breast enlargement in females, growth of pubic hair, genitalia growth in males begin-
ning of menstruation in females.

If any or some of these signs appear at a younger than average age or are delayed beyond the expected age range for puberty, it may
be an indication of a more serious problem involving the hypothalamus, pituitary, gonads (ovaries or testes), or other systems. The
measurement of LH and FSH may differentiate between benign symptoms and true disease. Once it is established that symptoms are a
result of true disease, further testing can be done to discern the underlying cause."

"How is FSH TEST used?
FSH is often used in conjunction with other tests (LH, testosterone, estradiol, and progesterone) in the workup of infertility in both
men and women. FSH levels are used to help determine the reason a man has a low sperm count. FSH levels are also useful in the
investigation of menstrual irregularities and to aid in the diagnosis of pituitary disorders or diseases involving the ovaries or testes.
In children, FSH and LH are used to diagnose delayed or precocious (early) puberty."

[SteveD (OP)]

Girlwind
Did you learn anything personally  from your LSH and FSH?

Unfortunately I did those tests at the WRONG time of month, so they were inconclusive. (It would have been a good
idea if the doctor had specified this to me BEFORE I wasted my money on them!)

Girlwind,

Sorry that happened to you...LH and FSH, along with total testosterone, are the only tests common to Waldinger's two original patients. My NP has already ordered Testosterone, Free and Total. I thought, using this document, I might  be able to persuade them to do LH and FSH. However , I got a call from her today and she says that Waldinger's paper is a 'case study, not a recognized syndrome' and that it is 'old, 6 years old', and that the Endo will not see me for that purpose, although I am free to ask him about it when I see him...and I will.

Steve D.

[girlwind]

Girlwind,

Sorry that happened to you...LH and FSH, along with total testosterone, are the only tests common to Waldinger's two original patients. My NP
has already ordered Testosterone, Free and Total. I thought, using this document, I might  be able to persuade them to do LH and FSH. However,
I got a call from her today and she says that Waldinger's paper is a 'case study, not a recognized syndrome' and that it is 'old, 6 years old', and
that the Endo will not see me for that purpose, although I am free to ask him about it when I see him...and I will.

Steve D.

Endo Schmendo, no comprendo.   [] [] []   Doctors can be so predicatable.

[SteveD (OP)]

Girlwind,

Called my NP and requested the LH and FSH testing... We'll see.

My partner and I just finished eight days of no genital contact with five of those being without any arousal behaviors...It was challenging for me because I am strongly attracted to her, but it was galvanizing and powerfully productive for me in every other way. I'm not naturally inclined to strive for balance, but periods of chastity interspersed with periods of active, non-orgasmic sexuality is a moderate compromise which, for me, reduces the negative effects of Pre-orgasmic illness syndrome. Thank goodness the post orgasmic stuff is now a dead issue, for me.

Hope you are well and prospering.

Steve D.

[girlwind]

Hi Steve--

Thanks for posting your progress report, your exercise in self-discipline and self-care. I'm happy for the
success that your efforts have gleaned you.

I just finished my first month of HC treatments, and am having some slow and steady results with perking up my
adrenals. At this point I am much more focused on CFS (my primary health issue) than I am on POIS or the sexual
illness syndrome, so I probably won't be posting much more. I have found some other forums that seem to suit
my needs a little better, and provide me with the support I was looking for as I proceed forward with my current
adrenal and thyroid treatment regimens. I'll check in on occasion to see how you are doing here.  My best to you. 

~~Girlwind

[SteveD (OP)]

I'll check in on occasion to see how you are doing here.  My best to you. 
~~Girlwind

Be well my friend,

Steve D.

[girlwind]

For the past couple months I have been doing extensive reading on adrenal and thyroid related health issues.
I am in the process of treating my own adrenal and thyroid deficiencies and have been given a lot of good info
from people on other forums, which concurs with what I learned from Michael8028.  Here are  some of the more
informed articles I've read. I hope you find some of them as useful as I did. I will post this info on the POIS forum
as well.


ABOUT ADRENAL FATIGUE
http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/whatis.php

ADRENAL SUPPORT (Copied from THE GREAT THYROID SCANDAL and HOW TO SURVIVE IT
by Dr. Barry Durrant-Peatfield)
http://featherstone.bravehost.com/thyroid/peatfieldadrenal.html

METABOLIC THERAPY: Adrenal Thyroid Correction
http://www.drrind.com/metabolic.asp

Pathways of adrenal steroid biosynthesis in adrenal cortex
http://www.umanitoba.ca/dnalab/med/adr3.htm

UNDERSTANDING ADRENAL FUNCTION
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx

TESTS FOR ADRENALS
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

The Adrenal Stress Index Test
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI.html

ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY UNDERDIAGNOSED INTHE CRITICALLY ILL
http://www.pulmonaryreviews.com/jan03/pr_jan03_adrenal.html

Pathways of adrenal steroid biosynthesis in adrenal cortex
http://www.umanitoba.ca/dnalab/med/adr3.htm


David Derry, MD, Ph.D on RETHINKING THE TSH TEST
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/david-derry.htm

Stop the Thyroid Madness.com
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Thyroid hormones as neurotransmitters.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001201

Molecule Derived from Thyroid Hormone May Be New Neurotransmitter
http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/news.php?news_id=200405175

Thyroid hormones, serotonin and mood: of synergy and significance in the adult brain
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v7/n2/abs/4000963a.html

The Depression Thyroid Disease Connection Explored
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/cohendepression.htm

[underwater]

Steve---
Glad to see you are doing well. As Girlwind has mentioned, POIS is also just "The Tip of the Iceberg" for me also. My major concern is an anxiety condition that has not lifted in 22 months now. Sometimes I get quite depressed and dizzy. Orgasmic sexuality is my LEAST concern. Today I had a fabulous day as I was able to meditate far out on a jetty in the ocean for 2 hours. A squirrel was sunbathing next to me.
I have taken a break from swimming, as I need to rest my Trapezius muscles that may be causing some of my anxiety. My major goal is simple: Peace of Mind
As you noticed, I have not commented on the effects of arousal with respects to orgasmic sexuality. But I do know that for me, arousal is the cause of considerable inflammation and discomfort, even without ejaculation. This is because my nervous system does not specifically differentiate between certain sexual stimulation. Simply put, high levels of stimulation cause intense, disabling responses, and low levels cause low levels of uncomfortable responses. I'm trying to stay away from all stimulation now and just get back to a more tranquil existence. HELLO GIRLWIND IF YOU READ THIS

[SteveD (OP)]

Steve---
Glad to see you are doing well.  Orgasmic sexuality is my LEAST concern. As you noticed, I have not commented on the effects of arousal with respects to orgasmic sexuality. But I do know that for me, arousal is the cause of considerable inflammation and discomfort, even without ejaculation. This is because my nervous system does not specifically differentiate between certain sexual stimulation.  My major goal is simple: Peace of Mind

Underwater,

So glad to hear from you. Orgasmic sexuality  does not concern me in the least,either . It will be 22 months on Thursday since I was orgasmically sexual. However, my nervous system can distinguish between different phases of sexuality in increasing levels of intensity, very subtly and very clearly. The more intense the sexual activity, the more dopamine is produced in my brain, the more hungover I feel...Very, very simple. As for my major goal. It is as yours is...peace of mind. For me, I find it one way only...surrendering sexuality, one day at a time.

Currently, my partner and I have genital contact, without orgasm, of course, for two days and then have a 'rest day' That is our pattern. So, I have peace typically every third day.Today is anomalous for us in that it is the fourth rest day in a row, by choice.

Once again, So glad to hear from you.

Steve D.
 

PS>>>I have taken a break from swimming.
I've actually just started taking swimming lessons for the first time in 45 years and am enjoying it!

[SteveD (OP)]

Girlwind,

Thank you for the links. I am grateful and am reading through them all, one at a time.

Hope you are healthy and thriving. I am able to leave some of the health issues behind, a little bit at a time, and just begin to do more 'normal' things like work on my career and make money. I couldn't do that, wisely, without dealing first with POIS, anemia and food ...but, I am reasonably happy with all those issues now. Whew!

Thanks for being a part of that, for me.

Your friend,

Steve D.

[SteveD (OP)]

Six days of rest days in a row!

It's been challenging and very productive for me...

[girlwind]

Girlwind,

Thank you for the links. I am grateful and am reading through them all, one at a time.

Hope you are healthy and thriving. I am able to leave some of the health issues behind, a little bit at a time, and just begin to do more 'normal' things like work on my career and make money. I couldn't do that, wisely, without dealing first with POIS, anemia and food ...but, I am reasonably happy with all those issues now. Whew!

Thanks for being a part of that, for me.

Your friend,

Steve D.

Hi Steve--

I have been very involved in learning the art of balancing hormones, particularly cortisol. It's a LOT more complex
than I thought and requires a serious commitment to daily monitoring. I take my temperature 3 times a day and
graph it. I take my blood pressure at least once a day--sitting, then standing. I have to pay very close attention
to what I'm eating--high protein, low carbs, and plenty of Emergen-C, to keep potassium and sodium at optimal
levels, and to keep my blood sugar stable. I have to be very careful about how much I exercise, as my adrenals heal.

I have gotten a lot of good info on the topic of adrenals and thyroid, much of which I've passed along to you here.

I have not yet even begun to treat my thyroid yet, but am ever so s-l-o-w-l-y working up to that point. As I have
learned from other thyroid patients on other forums, the adrenals need to be at an optimal level BEFORE you begin
thyroid hormone, or it will not be tolerated. With that there is a risk of side  effects like palpitations and anxiety,
which I prefer to pass on!

The POIS is very secondary to me now. The big issue is my long term CFS, which along with POIS, are just symptoms
of the hormones being in various states of deficiency. I'm so glad to be on the right track--finally. It only took 31
years.

Good luck with all your "normal" things. I will check in some other time to see what's up.