[daveshorts]

Have you actually looked at this stuff and more importantly thought about it critically?

For those of us who don't know the bible by reference

 (Isaiah 40:22) "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.  He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."

Is talking about circles not spheres. The greeks had worked out the world was a sphere by the time the bible was collated anyway.

(Isaiah 55:9)"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Urr so being higher than a mountain is almost infinite?

(II Peter 3:7)"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Sounds a lot more like a threat than an exposition of E=Mc2

(Ecclesiastes 1:7) "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again."

This is just coming from logic - the sea isn't filling up and the rivers keep running - it misses the only unobvious bit about evaporation and clouds

(Jeremiah 33:22) As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Sounds like 'My god has a big army so don't mess with him' It doesn't even mention stars!!!

(Psalm 102:25-27) "
 25Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

 26They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

 27But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
"

Urr you will die, and old clothes wear out, sounds a bit like everyday experience to me...

(Leviticus 17:11)"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."

Firstly blood isn't of paramount importance to life processes, most of life gets along perfectly well without it - plants, fungi, bacteria, many simple animals. You can keep flesh alive without blood, give it some oxygen, glucose and salts, and it will get along fine.
So the only thing this is saying is that vertibrates need blood to survive - do we think this was the result of divine revalation or empirical study?

(Ecclesiastes 1:6)"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."

This one is better than most - but more an observation that the wind changes direction. Even if it is the modern meaning, it could be worked out by conservation of stuff, rather than a deep understanding of atmospheric circulation. The whole atmosphere runs on convection, this involves vertical winds, and surprise surprise it doesn't talk about this.

(Job 26:7)"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."

Urr this sounds more like a deep misunderstanding of gravity - as the earth needs hanging on something apparently gravity would be pointing in one direction.


People were no more stupid 2000 years ago than they are today, they observed stuff fairly accurately, and made theories based on it. So surprise surprise there is a lot of stuff in the bible broadly in agreement with how the world works. However none of the things you have just showed me requires any more than this!

[neilep]

Hey Tony,

Assuming you have not poisoned yourself then it seems you might have a chance at getting this thread in the top 25 !!

Anyway, here's a nice little website filled with all types of biblical contradictions !!

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[ejirolove30]

http://www.christiananswers.net/menu-at1.html#contradictions [nofollow]

read that to find out that there are no contradictions in the bible.

and they guy above you have read all those scriptures but yet you do not understand what I said.

[ukmicky]

You just dont like the scientifically proved fact that your related to a banana.[]

PS i clicked on your link and read quite a bit. The word miracle comes up quite a bit,a bit too much for my liking , its seems  a nice and easy way to get around answering a question if you ask me.

There are literary hundreds of questions which i could ask.I will start with 4 easy ones for you for.

 
How did jonah actually survived in a whales stomach for three days.

How old do you believe the earth is.

How long ago were the dinosaurs walking on the earth.

Where's all the water from the great flood in the noahs ark story gone. and dont say its now underground because your talking about enough water to cover the highest mountains.

How did noah get around to every region of the world and find every animal.

I know what is supposed to of happened to the birds but what about the bees and all the other insects.
How did noah re-populate the world, did he drop off every animal from where they came from.

what did the lions and tigers etc eat once they were freed.

What happened to all the plants and trees did noah have a seed bank or something.

why do we share a large proportion of our genetic make up with a banana or a chimp if there is no such thing as evolution.
Michael

[GOD]

Ooops...I forgot my 11th commadment.

Thou shalt not believe in me.

It's tough not existing !!

[ejirolove30]

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html [nofollow]

there is your answer.

[ukmicky]

quote:Originally posted by ejirolove30

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html

there is your answer.

No i want your answers in your own words.

if you believe in the bible you should know all the answers, after all you wouldnt believe in something you know nothing about would you.

PS ive added a few more sorry[] COME ON SHOUDNT BE HARD



Michael

[ejirolove30]

Are u kidding me? Why should I type whats already there?

Why are u trying to pick a fight with me? I taught this board is about sharing your opinions.

[ukmicky]

ejirolove30

I'm sorry if i gave you the impression that i was trying to fight with you,i just fiqured you were happy to enter into a dissusion regarding your posts.

Please enjoy the rest of the forum

Michael

[ejirolove30]

I am more than happy but your request was very silly. You want me to give you the same answer that is listed in the site i provided. if in my own words or not, the answer is already given. if i did not know what i am talking about, that i am just coping links than all i have to do is go and read and come back and tell you what i read.

[daveshorts]

quote:Originally posted by ejirolove30

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html

there is your answer.

Ok that is a good scientific answer... so the whole of the himalayas have been formed in the last 3000 years... In fact within a couple of months, lets be really generous, give it 1000 years. Have you even thought about the consequences of this? Mountains are a bit like ice bergs, they have roots, to make the Himalayas and the tibetan plateau you have to shorten a plate by at least 1000km, that means that the plates would have to be moving a 1km/yr, only 10000 times faster than they are now!!! Ignoring all the thermal effects (doing this would probably cause all the seas to boil - sending the world into a nuclear winter) and the fact that there would be huge evidence of this, the Indians and Chinese have records going back longer than this, don't you think they might have mentioned that all their villages were getting much closer together every year!! Oh and there were at least 3 very large earthquakes a day!!!

So the earth's magnetic field must have been flipping at least once a year over this time as well in order to produce the magnetic stripes found in the seabed, oh and god must have built a huge system of pipes through the new oceanic crust in order to make it cool down that quickly (no matter how cold the surface was you can't cool something 10km thick very fast - in less than a few million years - I can show you the maths if you like) - the amount of energy released would also boil most of the seas, with immense climatic and other effects.

It is at least intelectually consistant to say God magiked it so it was as the bible says, as he doesn't have to obey the rules of nature, however then there doesn't have to be any evidence - he could have just magiked the world so it looks like the flood never happened.

Saying it is all scientific but ignoring immense amounts of scientific evidence, and not doing any trivial calculations is either lazy or intelectually dishonest.

[spud]

It would seem pretty hypocritical to believe that everything in this universe was the product of a designer (meaning that everything in the universe is not self existent) and then believe in something that is supposedly greater than everything in the universe combined, and assume that it/he/she...whatever gender you want to give god...is self existent. Sounds pretty stupid to me.
    But don't get me wrong, i'm not an atheist to the fullest extent of the meaning of the word. I believe in the universal consiousnous of life. I believe that the universe we live in is just one of many interdimentional planes of existence. I also believe that this universe is the creation of what we ourselves think or desire it to be. In a sense, we are all god.
     In a way, it all comes down to what your personal interpretation of god is. It is different with us all. I don't think it matters what our ideas of god are, just as long as it fills that curiosity inside us, and we don't try and force these ideas on others.[]

[spud]

[I have removed the content of this post as it was not conducive to a sensible discussion, people's ideas are fair game, but personal abuse isn't]

[ejirolove30]

Well here is where people make the biggest mistake.  The earth was not created 6000 yrs ago.  Humans were created 6000 yrs ago.  There is a big gap from genesis chapter 1 and gensis chapter 2.  

Remember in the bible it states that when the devil rebelled against God that he and 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the earth.  That was before Genesis chapter 2.  The bible does that state when the world was created, it said in the beginning. Could have been millions if not billions of years ago.

[ukmicky]

quote:According to the Bible: Dinosaurs first existed around 6,000 years ago.5–7 God made the dinosaurs, along with the other land animals, on Day Six of the Creation Week (Gen. 1:20–25, 31).8  Adam and Eve were also made on day six—so dinosaurs lived at the same time as people, not separated by eons of time.  Dinosaurs could not have died out before people appeared, because dinosaurs had not previously existed, and death, bloodshed, disease and suffering are a result of Adam’s sin (Rom. 5:12,14, 1 Cor. 15:21–22).8
Representatives of all the kinds of air-breathing land animals, including the dinosaur kinds, went on board Noah’s Ark (see How did the animals fit on Noah's Ark?).  All those left outside the Ark died in the cataclysmic circumstances of the Flood—many of their remains became fossils.  
After the Flood (around 4,500 years ago), the remnant of the land animals, including dinosaurs, came off the Ark and lived in the present world, along with people.  Because of sin, the judgments of the Curse and the Flood have greatly changed the earth.  Post-Flood climatic change, lack of food, disease, and man’s activities caused many types of animals to become extinct.  The dinosaurs, like many other creatures, died out.  Why the big mystery about dinosaurs?. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/Area/AnswersBook/dinosaurs19.asp

How dumb is that. They actually believe dinosaurs like T rex were walking around the earth along with his buddies 4,500 years ago at the same time as man. If that was so why are their fossils found in rock that can be scientifically proved to be 100s of millions of years old, why are there no ancient wall paintings of dinosaurs.Why is there no written record of dinosaurs.  At least evolutionists try to find scientifically provable evidence as to why there theories are correct. Creationists just point to the bible as there evidence.  a book proves nothing ,I can write a book.

My advice to everybody is to bookmark the web address below and whenever you feel depressed or in need of lift, then just click on the link and have a read.

I can guarantee you will be happy with a broad smile across your face within the first 5 minutes of reading any one of the article's in the question and answers section; most of the stuff is so hilarious you will never need your anti depressants again.

  http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp


Michael

[ukmicky]

ejirolove30
I found the answers to the questions I asked you after looking at the website you posted and I can now see why you didn’t wish to answer me as the answers are not exactly what I would consider believable and in most cases are laughable

Q: How did Jonah actually survived in a whale’s stomach for three days.
A: There was air in the whale’s stomach allowing him to breath either that or he died and then was brought back too life by god.

Q  How long ago were the dinosaurs walking on the earth?
A: 4500 years ago,they came off the ark with all the other land animals.

Q: Where's all the water from the great flood in the Noah’s ark story gone. And don’t say it’s now underground because you’re talking about enough water to cover the highest mountains.
A: There were no mountains only high hills. The land mass then rose trapping the water in the valleys; Mount Everest grew in the last 4500 years after the flood.


Q. How did Noah get around to every region of the world and find every animal.
A: He didn’t, all the animals even came to him.

Q: How did the animals from far flung places like Australia get to the ark
A: 4500 Years ago the earth was either a single land mass or their was an ice age locking up so much water that it created land bridges allowing animals like kangaroos to get to the ark.

Q: How did Noah re-populate the world, did he drop off every animal from where they came from.
A: No they all walked home.


Q: I know what is supposed to of happened to the birds but what about the bees and all the other insects.
A: NOAH only took things which could breath through there nostrils, most insects breath through there skins and so were able to survive. And those which had difficulty surviving took to rafts made out of twigs and debris.

Q: What did the lions and tigers etc eat in the first weeks when they were freed.
A: Something’s we don’t know the answers to, all we know is they just survived and the proof to that is the fact that most of them are alive today.
 

Q: What happened to all the plants and trees did Noah have a seed bank or something.
A: They all died but their seeds survived under the water and re-populated the world once the water had gone.


CONCLUSION
I have no problem with people believing in a god,its actually a nice thought that their could be something watching over us but I can't believe in the bible or the creationist’s interpretation of it, as to do so would be stupid.  None of the creationist’s arguments contain facts, and nothing can be scientifically tested like evolution and natural selection can.
 
So I know which one I would put my money on.


Michael

[neilep]

Great Posts Michael.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[JimBob]

There is no defending belief but there is a check of facts. I believe that I can be trusted to check bible facts. I was brought up ultra-hardshell Baptist, my great-grandfather rode circut in the back hills of southeast Tennessee befeor 1900. I learned the Bible backwards and forwards, had a perfect 12 year attendence in Sunday School from age 5 to 17 and .

So lets look at the Bible facts:

quote:Originally posted by ejirolove30

Well here is where people make the biggest mistake.  The earth was not created 6000 yrs ago.  Humans were created 6000 yrs ago.  There is a big gap from genesis chapter 1 and gensis chapter 2.  
 
Remember in the bible it states that when the devil rebelled against God that he and 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the earth.  That was before Genesis chapter 2.  The bible does that state when the world was created, it said in the beginning. Could have been millions if not billions of years ago.

So it follows very logically from the 6000 year age of man that a day does not mean 24 hours. Does the Bible say a day is 6000 years long - anywhere? NO. A day is a defined in Genesis 1:5. A day is " the evening and the morning". If one part of the Bible is to be taken literally, then all of it must be taken literally. Noone can pick and choose which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be interpreted AND be consistent in their logic.

Secondly - A Challenge - Where in the Bible does it say, I quote you that "when the devil rebelled against God that he and 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the earth" In Matthew 25:41  is says "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: ..." But where in the Bible does it say the devil rebelled or that 1/3 of the angels were thrown down? It doesn't. Your belief is one you were taught by someone else or something you made up. It seems not to be based on YOUR reading of the Bible, the Bible being the only teacher you can depend on. Where in the Bible is the story that tells you the angels were cast out of Heaven and thrown into Hell? Tell me.

I am teachable and will admit I am wrong but I will not be convinced unless the story of the fall is literal.

MY POINT:

I am a Christian. I have been one all my life. Christianity (and God) as you would have us believe is incompatable with (my brand of) science. That I believe dinosaurs lived more than 65 million years ago does not damn me. It is mearly that I believe the way God set in motion the Universe is unknown to Humans. God is beyond any human knowlege.

If christians had been correct through all of history, they would not have believed the earth was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe, nor burned Bruno at the stake for saying Aristotle was wrong. Christians have been wrong about science of the demonstrable and provable for a long time and will continue to be in the future. Belief in God does not damn modern science. YOU damn it.

By saying "you fool" to us, you condemn yourself. (Matthew 5:22) Take care of and educate your own soul before you try to teach others what is or is not righteous. Being a Sadducee (literalist) is not a winning position. (That is in the Bible.)

I cannot say I am right or wrong.  I do know I cannot tell another person that they are wrong.  (Matthew 7:3-5)






The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

[neilep]

Excellent Post Jim.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[ejirolove30]

Oh boy!!! Did i say a day is 6000 yrs long? I said there is a big gap between genesis 1 and genesis chapter 2. Some believe God created the earth millions or even billions of years ago Genesis 1.  God in genesis 2 created man, it did not say that God created man when he created earth.  Read and you will see the big gap for yourself between those 2 chapters.

Isa 14:12-15, spoke of satan cast down to the earth.  The bible call those who say there is no God a fool. Because evidence of His existence is all around us.  People say evolution can be proven, but it cant. Only the fools will say that man who is created with his nose in the right position, not facing up or when the rain fall he will drowned,lol.  Or one eye at the back of our head and one in front, or ear down to our belly and one on the side of our head.  Evolution cannot position the amount of order that is all over the world.  

So becareful my friend to call me sadducce.