[Andy28 (OP)]

Yes or no? Simple as that.

[Mirage]

For some people it's not a black or white question/situation

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Flying Monkey Slayer AKA The Big Cheese says:

My famous last words will be
"I dunno, press the button and find out."

[Gaia]

I think for or against would be clearer. Definitely AGAINST!!!

Gaia  xxx

[moonfire]

Against!

"Lo" Loretta

[Karen W.]

Against!!

Karen

[another_someone]

In general, against.  I do not think it serves any judicial purpose.

I think the more complex issue is where someone serving a life sentence actually asks to be allowed to die (such as Ian Brady did, and such an Ian Huntly and Harold Shipman did by their actions if not by their request).

But then, this side issue may itself imping upon the wider debate about euthanasia.

George

[lightarrow]

Against.

[Andy28 (OP)]

Theres lots of kind hearted people on this forum, lol. I've never seen so many people at peace with the world. I suppose i get annoyed because where i live you can murder someone and make parole in as little as 12 years. How is that paying your debt?

[moonfire]

Too bad peace with the world does not mean world peace...we are still a minority!

"Just Me, Lo" Loretta

[Carolyn]

I wish I could give a straight forward answer, but I'm still kind of straddling the fence on this one.

Carolyn

[Mirage]

I was once given a wedgie on a gate, that wasn't very nice, they ripped my trousers [!][V]

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Flying Monkey Slayer AKA The Big Cheese says:

My famous last words will be
"I dunno, press the button and find out."

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by Andy28

Theres lots of kind hearted people on this forum, lol. I've never seen so many people at peace with the world. I suppose i get annoyed because where i live you can murder someone and make parole in as little as 12 years. How is that paying your debt?

What debt - you cannot repay a debt with an eye for an eye.

As far as I am concerned, the guy may as well come out as soon as people can be reasonably sure he wont do it again (in some cases, the guy would never do it again anyway - after all, if a wife happens to lose it against a habitually abusive husband, does she really even deserve 12 years inside?).

There are other people who will be spending the rest of their lives in jail (in the case of Ian Huntly, it was a fairly short rest of his life) - but then, even that often seems more like a political gesture than a carefully judged assessment of public risk.

I see absolutely no value of vengeance for the sake of vengeance.  I do not see that as being kind, just pragmatic.

George

[Andy28 (OP)]

quote:Originally posted by another_someone

quote:Originally posted by Andy28

Theres lots of kind hearted people on this forum, lol. I've never seen so many people at peace with the world. I suppose i get annoyed because where i live you can murder someone and make parole in as little as 12 years. How is that paying your debt?

What debt - you cannot repay a debt with an eye for an eye.

As far as I am concerned, the guy may as well come out as soon as people can be reasonably sure he wont do it again (in some cases, the guy would never do it again anyway - after all, if a wife happens to lose it against a habitually abusive husband, does she really even deserve 12 years inside?).

There are other people who will be spending the rest of their lives in jail (in the case of Ian Huntly, it was a fairly short rest of his life) - but then, even that often seems more like a political gesture than a carefully judged assessment of public risk.

I see absolutely no value of vengeance for the sake of vengeance.  I do not see that as being kind, just pragmatic.

I just don't know how to respond. I just cannot believe that you guys see murderers as people who deserve compassion and a second chance. We are on different planets.

George

[Andy28 (OP)]

I just don't know how to respond. I just cannot believe that you guys see murderers as people who deserve compassion and a second chance. We are on different planets.

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by Andy28

I just don't know how to respond. I just cannot believe that you guys see murderers as people who deserve compassion and a second chance. We are on different planets.

As I said, to me it is not a matter of compasion for the individual, it is about trying to build the society I would like to live in.

Oh, yes, I do have compassion for those who have been wrongly convicted (and no-matter what your belief in DNA analysis, we still get plenty of false convictions); and I also have compassion for the family of the person convicted of murder (they too are just as much victims as the person who has been killed).  More than that, I want to see more positive steps broghte about to reduce violence in society, and matching violence with violence does not to my mind serve that end.

George

[Andy28 (OP)]

I understand what you are saying. I think that brings this debate to a close unless a different member decides to contribute.

[Karen W.]

I agree with George, and I didn't realize this was a debate , but merely a question being answered honestly!! I do note that you wanted yes or no... but a question can be answered that way but indeed at times it is neccessary to allow further dialog to occur with answer!

Karen

[moonfire]

Excellent Karen!  I can concur with your statement given. What does it solve if we kill a person?  What satisfaction does it give to the victum or victum's families?  Does it really repay for what was taken?  There should be other alternatives given...if the person is locked up for life...and supposed rehabilitation is given(not usually)then the person should work and pay compensation to that family while they are alive under supervision since we are paying for them being locked up the money they would normally earn on the outside should be sent to the family in a fund for them to decide what to do with it.  For those on shorter term sentences, they should be monitored more closely by parole and not have freedoms like they have now, but placed in classes for rehabilitation for life.  Okay, not all the solutions but some short term ones I am thinking of as there is no value on life, but they should have to pay other than receiving an education in jail and no real rehabilitation for their behaviour...etc...

"Just Me, Lo" Loretta

[Karen W.]

Andy, It really bothers me that You say Yes or No, its that simple! It is not simple .. the fact is it is one of the hardest questions I have ever faced in my life! Fact I am 46 years old It took me over half of my life to have the life experience that I have had dealing with specific topic subject for me to finally be able to say "Against!" and stand confident that it is really the best thing for me. I find you a unique "Young Man" and this is not at all a put down, so please don't take offence as there is none intended! When I hear the words you use and the matter of fact tone you seem to me to be very young.. Do you mind me asking how old you are?? Just curios.. as many of the things you say tell me you are a very young man.

Do you have any experience ever being the family or close friend of a murder victim? I hope you never do as It tears you up inside and makes you question your own existance. There is no way I can explain to you where you will understand that is something you will learn through life experience.. I hope that you get through it as well as I.. I almost didn't! Other members of my family have ruined their lives dealing with this pain.. they have turned to drugs to forget others just become bitter and angry..hostile and very short tempered... You should live awhile and have some more life experiences before you try to decide one way or the other..its really much more the yes or no, its not that simple...

Karen

[Andy28 (OP)]

Well i hope i don't offend you by telling you i have served 4 prison sentences and have made the national papers in 1998. I have been hooked on heroin and am an alcoholic.  All this at 28.  That does'nt mean that i can't now behave like a normal citizen and have an opinion that criminals should be adequately punished.  Forums need outspoken people otherwise they become stale.