[underwater]

Thanks for the report Demo--
Testosterone Prolactin balance, very interesting--
Congratulations on your relationship with this physician, sounds hopeful--
Is the assumption that a patch will stabilize the testosterone at a lower level, or just stabilize it generally?
In a previous post, I recall there being some consideration with Prolactin/Dopamine balance. Is this still a consideration?
Thanks for the update---

[martin88]

SEXUAL/ORGASMIC REPRESSION
Some researchers have found that sexual/orgasmic repression can eventually lead to hostility and rage. In my personal experience, I find that movement in that direction can be true for me. That doesn't mean I necessarily become hostile or angry, but I can feel the tension building. For me, the building intensity is felt clearly after about 6 weeks.

To counter this tension, for decades, I have experimented seriously, tried various forms of meditation, spirituality, etc. to no avail. I can suppress sexuality, but not with a very positive outcome in social interaction, self-esteem, and confidence. Even my pianoplaying deteriorates! []

Demo, about occasional hostility, rage and even blind fanaticism when sexually abstinent, here is the best I can say that has been helpful:
-Reducing/suppressing : salt, zinc, sugar, coffee, food additives, multivitamin (my experience was with supplements containing only vitamins (no minerals) in RDA doses). 
-Doing more (and finish!) pleasant manual and mental work, long physical exercise (so eventually it's possible to eat more easily what was suppressed above)
-Taking more water, lettuce, can help.
-Having meals in full silence, mastication is important.

Even if this is happening only when sexually abstinent, I think it's definitely not the unique cause. There is certainly something else abnormal and more profound causing that. It's not everybody who reacts like that

It is said that low serotonin or low or excessive testosterone can cause hostility. Maybe pois itself is responsible, it's a way for this awful thing to appear again as a long term side effect when we think it's over !

I'd add that a minimum of rage is absolutely necessary to achieve some difficult tasks, and can often be very positive specially when you can fight and win over the frustration.

[martin88]

I've just read your last post Demo, this sounds extremely encouraging. (Please correct the error high testosterone in your last post []). I'll search about this new treatment he gave you.

[demografx]

Thanks for the report Demo--
Testosterone Prolactin balance, very interesting--
Congratulations on your relationship with this physician, sounds hopeful--
Is the assumption that a patch will stabilize the testosterone at a lower level, or just stabilize it generally?
In a previous post, I recall there being some consideration with Prolactin/Dopamine balance. Is this still a consideration?
Thanks for the update---

Thanks, Underwater. The idea is to stabilize the testosterone level to a higher level, and not erratically as I did before with depotestosterone. Prolactin/dopamine? No, must've been someone else. Thanks again.

[demografx]

I've just read your last post Demo, this sounds extremely encouraging. (Please correct the error high testosterone in your last post []). I'll search about this new treatment he gave you.

Martin, thanks for catching that error! (I fixed it). I have to be careful around Martin! [] And thank you for the positive feedback about today's POIS cure-search-in-progress!

[martin88]

Demo, before you took the first DEPOtestosterone were you low in testosterone ? If elevated prolactin is linked with low testosterone perhaps DEPOtestosterone blocked your own T production thus increasing PRL (?)

Also a nice thing would be to test for estrogen while taking testosterone to check for possible aromatization as it was mentionned by other forum members. I read that a possible side effect from your new treatment is gynecomastia (caused by aromatization), but probably you don't take a big dose, and your endo know what he's doing.
PSA should be tested too.

[demografx]

Demo, about occasional hostility, rage and even blind fanaticism when sexually abstinent, here is the best I can say that has been helpful:.........

Martin, perhaps you missed my point: I simply believe that sexual/orgasmic repression is unhealthy at some point. It is different for everyone. I don't wish to "fix" that, I simply will respect it. For me, that means to not be chaste beyond 6 weeks or so. I also don't believe that is abnormal; just the opposite: it proves that we are sexually expressive beings! Suppresssion of natural desires can make one become ill (e.g., hostile, aggressive, depressed, etc.). For example, and I know this is very controversial, but I believe that the problem shows very clearly in some (but not all!) celibate clergy. I'm absolutely sure not everyone agrees with me. []

[demografx]

Demo, before you took the first DEPOtestosterone were you low in testosterone?

Maybe, but the test may have been faulty, it was standard urological testing, but the current tests were more comprehensive. My prime objective was to follow a Czechoslovakian sex therapist's theory that POIS can be cured with testosterone.

If elevated prolactin is linked with low testosterone perhaps DEPOtestosterone blocked your own T production thus increasing PRL (?)

Yes, it's possible. The doctor admits he is trying the best experiments with the data at hand. If wrong, we will switch course.

Also a nice thing would be to test for estrogen while taking testosterone to check for possible aromatization as it was mentioned by other forum members before. I read that a possible side effect from your new treatment is gynecomastia (caused by aromatization), but probably you don't take a big dose, and your endo know what he's doing.PSA should be tested too.

"Your endo knows what he's doing" is my motto. One could go crazy trying to "play doctor" when one is not a doctor. My philosophy is find the best doctor that I can as a limited non-medico human being and to then give him full creative expression and promote his absolute best thinking. My input to him will be extremely selective. I will only change that when I see or suspect something drastically wrong. I have been moderately successful in my life doing that. Could I die following that philosophy? Yes. []

PSA is tested regularly with urologist.

[demografx]

Underwater, I might have confused you with high vs. low testosterone. Martin caught the error in my lengthy post and I fixed it.

[pyropeach]

UPDATE: MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST AND I PARTNERING A SEARCH FOR POIS

Thanks for the update Demo.  I wish I could get more tests myself, but the doctors here have abandoned me long ago.  Just want to say if someday there is some research study, and they need test subjects, just tell me when and where and I'M THERE.

Btw - does any notice heavy palpitations during POIS?  This usually happens after a meal, execpt during POIS, its amplyfied to the point I can feel my pulse in my hands and head...drives me nutts!

[Counterpoints]

Btw - does any notice heavy palpitations during POIS?  This usually happens after a meal, execpt during POIS, its amplyfied to the point I can feel my pulse in my hands and head...drives me nutts!

Yes, my heart seems really agitated "in" POIS.  Beating like crazy, and it's really distracting.

[demografx]

LEVITRA

At one time, this represented a 75% cure for me, cause for much joyful celebration and glee.

Some of us thought that perhaps the major impact on POIS is due to Levitra's effect in stimulating nitric oxide?

It's now over a year later since first discovering Levitra's effect on POIS accidentally, and I'm not so sure how well it's still working.

Perhaps the cognitive symptoms have lessened. But the exhaustion is still there, and it's debilitating, even though the symptomatic length of time has been cut down.

I believe you once mentioned you tried increasing the dose.  Does this affect the relief you feel from Levitra?

Thanks, CP. Yes, I doubled the dose and it seemed to work a little better. But it may have been placebo effect.

And the initial placebo effect....good gawd, is it possible to last for a year??? []

[demografx]

Btw - does any notice heavy palpitations during POIS?  This usually happens after a meal, execpt during POIS, its amplyfied to the point I can feel my pulse in my hands and head...drives me nutts!

Yes, my heart seems really agitated "in" POIS.  Beating like crazy, and it's really distracting.

Yes, me too. But sometimes it's that nasty drug of mine, Ms. Caffeine []

[Counterpoints]

OmBass,
Interesting post.  What are your symptoms, specifically?  I encourage you to fill out the form: www.pois.olympe-network.com

[Counterpoints]

Steve,
My post on symptom groupings can be found here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg200606#msg200606
Best regards.

[demografx]

UPDATE: MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST AND I PARTNERING A CURE FOR POIS

Thanks for the update Demo.  I wish I could get more tests myself, but the doctors here have abandoned me long ago.  Just want to say if someday there is some research study, and they need test subjects, just tell me when and where and I'M THERE.

Pyro, don't give up. Every time I vowed to get up and keep fighting, something good happened! Show them Waldinger's paper! Show them the forum! I'll be happy to phone them on your support-behalf, just PM me.

[Counterpoints]

Pyro: did you get my e-mail about the MD PhD in your area?  He would be interested in seeing you as a patient, and is studying POIS.

[Counterpoints]

Counterpoints--
It is very interesting that we can have such different "takes" on the same post.
I certainly did not intend to give the impression that one view was sacrosanct and immune from criticism. My intentions all along were to respond to the "give and take" of dialogue in a positive, two sided manner which has been one of my interests for many years. My apologies. I might have been verbose, but I enjoyed writing it. I just never read into  that post the idea of name change. I enjoyed the stylistic introduction, recognized a spontaneous utterance (felt the anguish that only spontaneity can generate)and read down to get to the main idea/s. The contributor is always painfully honest and revealing.

Thanks for clarifying, and for your input.

[Counterpoints]

Routines and patterns

Looking back, I find that my POIS has been least significant when I am deeply involved in several routines:
1) Time intervals between orgasms are almost identical (e.g. hypothetically: 1 every 3 days at 10 pm)
2) Time intervals between meals are the same, and the same number of meals a day.
3) Waking up and going to sleep happens at the same times every day
4) Routines such as exercise take place every day, and at the same times

Has anyone else found this?

[pyropeach]

Pyro, don't give up. Every time I vowed to get up and keep fighting, something good happened! Show them Waldinger's paper! Show them the forum! I'll be happy to phone them on your support-behalf, just PM me.

I really appreciate the offer Demo.  I have planned to go back there armed with Waldiner's paper and the knowledge of this forum, its just I've been doing lots of traveling and the term is now taking up all my time, and POIS isn't exactly making it easier (GRRR!!).

Pyro: did you get my e-mail about the MD PhD in your area?  He would be interested in seeing you as a patient, and is studying POIS.

CP, I did recieve your email a while ago, but my laptop died and I can't access anything on it, could u please send it again?


As for these heart palpitations, after some quick googling, it seems high cortisol is a cheif cause of palpiations.  This is consisent with the theory that excessive cortisol is responsible in part for POIS.  But if cortisol is too high, blood pressure should also be elevated above normal, I think I'll start monitoring my blood pressure during POIS and after the symptoms pass.