[Porke]

WoW!

Im not the only one going thru this!!!

I have been researching this on the internet for a few months and all i could come up with was a few snippets of info here and there. Most websites just try sell you some bullcrap product (which is just a multivitamin anyways)

Ok

My experiences has been similar. After sex (alone or with a girl) i do experience a hangover effect. There is not difference to real sex or by yourself (how would your body know anyways). Sometimes its almost like a delayed effect... in that i feel worse only a day or two later... and this can persist for several days.

I experience: Tiredness, Pale looking, Eyes burning, More Edgy, Dont think as clearly... I dont get any backaches or muscle spams as some people talk about.

Frequency is definitely a contributing factor. Once a week seems fine, but a few sessions back to back KILLS ME. It takes about 3-5 days for me to 'feel normal' again.

I have tried every supplement out there that could POSSIBLY improve things. Zinc for testosterone, and some testo boosters (which didnt do squat) (I dont believe it has anything to do with testosterone levels). Then ive done multi vitamins.. B vitamins... DHEA (For apparently low DHEA levels... but that made me feel even worse)..

Now, after finding some article it describes two main brain chemicals... One being dopamine and one being prolactin. After sexy time, dopamine drops and prolactin rockets. It is from one of these (dopamine being too low or prolactin being too high) that apparently causes all these symptoms. Somehow... suffers of 'POIS' as you guys call it struggle to bring these two hormones back into balance.

Now, as i understand it, if dopamine goes up, prolactin goes down... its like a see saw. Ive seen some people discussing anti depressents and stuff... not sure how those are going to work.. As far as i know.. these things prevent re uptake of certain chemicals... hence SSRI (Reuptake Inhibitor) so its not actually boosting anything.

Here are some supplements that have some promise according to what ive researched:

Tyrosine:
Tyrosine may be useful in the treatment of Alzheimer’s Disease (Alzheimer’s Disease patients frequently exhibit lowered levels of Dopamine and Norepinephrine; Tyrosine may help to restore normal levels of these Neurotransmitters).

Phenylalanine-L:
Phenylalanine is metabolized within the body to form Catecholamine Neurotransmitters (usually via Tyrosine):
Phenylalanine is a precursor for the endogenous production of Dopamine.

L-Theanine :
Theanine may increase Dopamine levels in the Brain.  references
Theanine may increase Gamma Aminobutyric Acid (GABA) levels in the Brain.  references

I have tried tyrosine myself.. and i noticed a SLIGHT improvement in things. Im thinking maybe a combination of all 3 could do the trick. I dont like using supplements tho, as im quite sensitive to them... i always feel weird on them, or have some reaction....

So there it is... im hoping someone could give some more useful info... or maybe try any of these above and report back

Ciao

[Bizzy]

Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I will post about my 25 years of POIS sometime later )

[imre1]

Well I'm pretty sure what causes my symptoms.

At the point of orgasm I get lines running in my head that feel like something is ripping up my brain. It would be like tearing of blood vessels in the head like with benign coital headache. But strangely those lines itself do not cause any pain (maybe a form of neurologically disorder in itself). 

Actually since I have been having these my entire live I always thought that they were just normal.

But when I pratice start/stops for a long time the same lines do not represent themselves any more. And I get no symptoms.

So it is as if my brain is being torn apart and I get temporal minor brain damage in the days following orgasm.

[Gonzo]

So here goes my story...

I'm 27 years old and have suffered from POIS for at least 10 years. I grew up a lethargic kid, recluse and introverted.  Often I would find myself with no motivation and completely drained in the likeness of the day after a sleepless night. Some moments weren't so bad though. I found that when I did have the ability to focus and had some energy, I was a pretty sociable guy and not too dull upstairs. It never occurred to me that my struggles were pointing at a problem. I began masturbating when I was about 14 or so but don't remember much about those days. I just know it happened often.

It wasn't until recently when an unfortunate and painful experience opened my eyes. I had made some bad decisions and bad judgment concerning some serious issues in my life. I found myself in deep depression and experienced a despair so dark and bitter that I would not wish it on my greatest enemy. I firmly believe that the side effects of POIS led me to make some bad judgment call, which are often in my experience of the condition. Its difficult to think and to put your thoughts in the right order. The brain fog is perpetually parked in my head and it seems like it will never leave. To my relief though, its gone after 3 days.

It wasn't until then that I started realizing that I needed help. I took care of myself. I ate right and lost some weight. I started taking St. John Wort which has done a wonderful job allowing me to have life again. By the way, St. John's has been known to help remedy depression symptoms. For some of you struggling with depression and associated mood problems, I recommend it but with the precaution that it effects everyone differently. I'm very thankful to report that these measures have helped me tremendously. There was still something wrong though. Something that had been true for so long began to prod at my curiosity and I began questioning it. As long as I can remember, an orgasm for me meant 3 days of downtime. I reasoned that it was a natural process that the body took to recuperate from an orgasm. But then I wondered what exactly it was recuperating from when I masturbated? Like I said, I never thought much of it, I never questioned it, but as i was recovering from depression, I noticed that when I did orgasm the symptoms would come back adding to the recuperation time I was familiar with. Here is a list of them:

1. Moodswings
2. Lack of concentration
3. Lack of cognitive function
4. Inability to communicate properly
5. Depression
6. Loss of confidence
7. Dream-like consciousness/surrealism
8. Desensitized(Unsociable/careless)
9. Extremely fatigued/ extreme heaviness
10. Headaches
11. Difficulty with visual focusing
12. Restless leg syndrome

As I came across this website, I was completely shocked and relieved to see all of my symptoms tied to this sexual event. Finally! Someone else was experience the same problem. I had researched this sort of problem often in the past but with little success. This thread is helping me to understand that I have a biological problem that needs attention and I wonder how much doctors can do. I've been reading up a lot on the bodies natural ability to heal itself and wonder if perhaps this can be a means for healing. If this is just some sort of neurological imbalance, involving Dopamine and Prolactin as some have suggested, then I think theres a hope for a cure rather than just a medical bandage for most if not all of us. I understand that each one of us is different yet similar in that we are a few who have just begun to receive confirmation that indeed something is wrong and we are not the only ones.

I hope to be a part of the solution as well. I hope to study the thread carefully for leads and begin some of my own sleuth work in hopes of finding some relief. I am particularly interested in the neurological study of the chemical events that surround an orgasm and finding a natural way, perhaps, to remedy this. I want to enjoy the great gift of sex, but I often hold back so much because of its implications. My plan is to space my sexual encounters to twice a month. I don't have a girlfriend to keep satisfied so this task will hopefully be a bit easier.

I hope one day we can enjoy sex without having to worry about the repercussions. Imagine that. No fatigue, no mental fog, no restless leg, no back pains, just beautiful uninhibited pleasure.

I am blessed to be a part of this community. May the good work continue!

Sincerely grateful,

Gonzo

[imre1]

A supplement that might be benificial in treating post orgasmic symptoms is gingko biloba.

What it does is smooth out the blood flow to the brain. It is sold as a feeding supplement for minor brain difficulties. It is often sold as a memory aid for the over 40. And it also used to fight cataracts and glaucoma.

Actually it's workings seem to be similar to propranolol in that it causes lowered blood pressure. But unlike propranolol it does not make you physically dependent on a drug that might actually kill you. As bingko biloba is sold as simple feeding supplement it is very unlikely to do any harm.

If you are living somewhere in Europe there is a very big chance that you can just by that in the local drug store under some form or an other. In my country it is for example sold as memixx.

[antman]

Hi everybody, just seen the new postings by bizzy,gonzo and porke, I am short for time but wanted to add a few comments tonight. Bizzy, I had a very good childhood, no abuse in my life, however you mentioned trauma,and on quick reflection remmembered that I had a minor operation at the age of thirteen, under a general anaesthetic,not sexually related!  However upon awaking, and being very sick I noticed that I had dandruff, it was like snow, I did not have it on entry to the hospital, but have suffered with it ever since, using a selenium based shampoo to keep it at bay now. I also had very bad acne, I know that both conditions are puberty related, however I believe to this day the dandruff was a result of the stress from the anaesthetic. For months after the operation I was very tearful, mildly depressed but again is this as a result of puberty? I remember at the time thinking the operation had affected my confidence .  Does acne indicate hormonal imbalances, it would be interesting to know if any or all of you were, or are sufferers.
Some of the symptoms not mentioned that I have had besides the fatigue are cramp, floaters in my eyes, I believe this to be dead nerve cells in the aqueous of the eye. Very pale white rings around my eyes like I have been skiing,dizziness, bad shakes when I wake up (the morning after) and a desperate need to sleep for at least 2 hours longer than if I've not had any sexual activity, with a need to sleep mid afternoon the next day sometimes 2. I'm interested to see any similarities between our history,genetic makeup and lifestyles, if any of you can relate to this I'd appreciate some comment.  Gonzo I read your story and symptoms and related to much of it.
keep the info coming. antman.

[Bizzy]

Hi folks

This is in response to antmans post. I too have suffered from terrible dandruff (like snowflakes) ever since my teens. I also have thought that this maybe related to my depression. I too have developed pale white rings around the iris of my eyes. I have never been under general anaesthesia. So I think your anaesthesia experience may have been a trigger or aggravator rather than something that created the condition.
I was physically abused (not sexual) as a child all the way into my teens. I thought that this may have been responsible for my depression and POIS. But there is also the possibility that a genetic disposition is purely responsible. From your post (antman) because you had a good childhood it seems that our condition may have genetic roots only.
Your prolonged depression after anaesthesia may have been caused by the anaesthetic and indicative of how drugs affect us in an abnormal and prolonged manner. I find that all kinds of drugs have an unsual and prolonged affect on my mental state including tea and coffee. Over the years I have formed the opinion that this prolonged affect is caused by 'sticking receptors' within the hypothalamus. When one has an orgasm there are hormonal and neuro-chemical changes within the hypothalamus. For example prolactin goes up and dopamine goes down. These changes in a specific area of the brain are probably responsibe for the post orgasmic fatigue in normal men. In POIS the brain chemistry of the hypothalamus fails to recover as it should. The person continues to feel fatigued and eventually starts to suffer from severe depression.
This is a condition that is not even recognized or known by the medical community. Research needs to be done to acknowledge its existance and cause. A protein that helps maintain receptor function within the hypothalamus maybe responsible for this illness.

[neilep]

Hi All,

It's wonderful to see you all posting here and I hope this forum serves to assist you......even if it's just as a sounding board !

Demografx has asked me to just point out something he has seen regarding Levitra.Unfortunately he can't post at the moment.

 It's a post he read elsewhere on the net and although the nature of the post can not be substantiated he felt it prudent to let you all know that it's possible that Levitra can cause strokes in people who do not need to take it.

I think the moot point here is to always ask the chemist/pharmacist or get advice from a medical practitioner before starting a treatment.

[Gonzo]

I just read a few articles, one of which includes the research conducted by Marnia Robinson, and found them very helpful and informative. It was recommended previously by someone on this thread and I would also entreat those who are trying to understand our condition to give it a read. You can find it here:

newbielink:http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain [nonactive]

Its easy to correlate the low dopamine levels to our particular symptoms, and if they are connected, then as the article suggests, it is perhaps something we may only be able to partially assuage. However, something which I have yet to find a possible explanation for is the dreaded 'foggy head syndrome' (impaired cognition) that I heatedly and savagely despise, much like demografx feels of POIS in its entirety(I feel your frustation!). I don't know whether to attribute this to the depression or to some other cause.

I've been without an "O" for 7 days now and the urge is really starting to get to me. Partially, I like how I feel. I'm confident, driven, and have a very exciting desire for the sexual "hunt". This is something that I often don't experience because I live through lows about 95% of my time. ITS FRUSTRATING! I have good mental clarity, although I've been struggling to focus more than other times and I'm suspect of ADD symptoms(but that's another can of worms), and my memory and other cognitive functions seem to be in order. I have a case of mild fatigue but the explanation for that is finals and the intensity of Christmas shopping this last week. I took half the day to rest and do nothing and tomorrow I should feel a big difference.

I should add a bit more information about myself that may be helpful. I suffer from PE but have an unbelievably short refractory period. I used to be able to go 3-4 times in a row with my ex. I could go back at it in about a minute of so. I did something similar last week but it was only twice through. On another note, I'm lactose intolerant and the posts regarding dairy intake are intriguing. I think cutting out dairy would be beneficial to me, but its hard to let go of cheese pizza and cafe con leche! I wonder if that may have something to do with my particular case, or anyones at that. I don't take any medication, never have. I suffered emotional trauma only once, which was the event that brought me to realize I had a problem. I basically had some sort of manic-depressive episode with some "mild" psychosis. It was the strangest and darkest moments of my life. I was under an enormous amount of emotional stress and had to make some very weighty decisions about my life at that time. I've never had any operations and rarely do I get sick. Growing up I was unusually sexually curious at an early age. I'm talking about 7-8 years old making out with the baby-sitter's daughter. Would you say that's normal? I also had two experiences where I was molested by my "peers". I know that's vague but I don't like talking about it and I don't see a connection. I think this is biological/genetic, but who am I to assert this?

I hope this can help us. Blessings.

Gonzo

[John21 (OP)]

I said I would do this, sorry it took so long.

1)- Number of days after:    

Typically a week, in two phases:

A:
The first phase is feeling very horrible in a way that I cannot describe, feels like a brain chemical is way out of whack. Social interaction is a nightmare during this, being socially impaired by having difficulty generating new thought. I learned how to “fake it” by relying on memories for content, hoping that at best I would appear distant, in an attempt to conceal a cognitive impairment. It is difficult to say exactly when it begins after orgasm.

B:
After a few days I the horrible feeling would end but it would take 3 or 4 more days to feel like myself, during which I felt very burnt out.

2)- Overall symptoms
-Physical tiredness : did not affect my physical stamina, only mental, but you don’t feel like being physical when you are mentally altered
-Mental tiredness 0 initially, then 4
-Lethargy/Derealisation (I cant wake up!) 4 ??
-Lack of concentration/Brain fog 5
-Sweating and heat feelings 0
-Cold feelings/cold hands/cold body 0
-Myalgias 0
-Anxiety 5
-Depression 0
-Agoraphobia/Social phobia 5
-Not motived 0
-Memory problems 5
-Difficult to speak/communication 5
-Insomnias/sleep problems : I have developed this…presumably due to many years of high anxiety, silently dealing with the problem
-Headaches 0
-Stomach aches 0 but it affects my digestive system, having a laxative effect
-Restless/agitation 0
-Blurred vision 0  but I have periodically had double vision, the onset of which coincided with an incident of POIS.
-Buzzing ears 0
-Dizziness 0
-Muscle tremors0  but definitely have muscle twitches after sex, even now when the POIS is not affecting me the way it used to.
-Diarrhoea day0 ; intestines are stimulated, but not that much
-Hair problems 0
-Mouth problems  0
-Skin problems 0
-Eyes problems 5 see above
-Short breathing 0
-Premature Ejaculation 150 )
-Sexual pain after sex 0
-Erection problems 0
-Libido problems 0
Others Symptoms ? High blood pressure was definitely present at times, as in the later days of my problem I thought of checking this. I forget the numbers but it was definitely high and demonstrated it to my doctor, who was alarmed but didn’t have any idea what could be the cause.


3) medical tests: many, so many.. but nothing was found. The only demonstrable effect was the high blood pressure mentioned above.

4) meds: I was on different types of  antidepressants, but nothing improved the POIS

5) I eat a good diet, better than I did when I suffered so much, but I wouldn’t say it was a bad diet. As y’all know I stay a mile from milk, not knowing definitely if it is the culprit but not willing to do any experimenting.

Welcome to the new arrivals.

John21

[John21 (OP)]

Jim,
I was on various SSRIs. Paxil was the main one which I was on for years.  It did indeed help my PE but I continued to have it, only of less intensity. It didn't help the POIS so I discontinued it. I tried Paxil again to battle my insomnia, but I don't think it helped on that front either.

In general I find antidepressants rob me of myself somehow. Faith is my current drug of choice.

(Aside: I didn't know I shouldn't stop taking Paxil suddenly and had a severe reaction on withdrawl: "the zaps" and pulsatile tinnitus. Many years later I still have the tinnitus and occasionally get the zaps in my sleep)

John21

[wowsawow]

Wow - I'm in bed a feel like I have the flu. I'd come to accept that I was a fluke case where orgasm (especially a few times with a week) produced a sick run-down feeling.
I thought I'd give the Internet one more try - and found this forum.

On the one hand - I'm very happy. I'm not the only one.

On the other hand, what can be done?

[demografx]

Jim, I don't think there's a "typical POIS state," except as defined by Dr Waldinger and he only studied less than a handful of cases.

I suggest that we are in the process of RE-DEFINING POIS, since we have more "subjects" here than did Dr Waldinger. And far more richer depth of personal history, characteristics and correlating symptoms.

I think we have successfully determined, simply, that there is a rare incidence in the population of longterm, adverse effects post-orgasm. I propose that we be as INCLUSIVE as possible of many different forms and types of "post orgasmic illness".

[Bizzy]

I think this forum is showing that the POIS symptoms as most people have described here are of a typical kind. My post orgasmic symptoms are fatigue, difficulty concentrating, mood swings, depression, flu like symptoms, depersonlization, derealization and muscular weakness. Thats amazingly similar symptoms to others on this forum. I believe the more obscure symptoms people have described here may either not be linked or only weakly linked.
Gonzo has created an excellent list of POIS symptoms.
Theres someone on this forum that keeps on talking about post orgasmic genital pain and not POIS. He also keeps on posting about long masturbation sessions to combat this condition. I think he is on the wrong forum and needs to see a urologist.

[Bizzy]

Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I have posted this before but got a poor response )

[John21 (OP)]

Bizzy,

I was not the victim of abuse or trauma. For many years it was my longstanding firm belief that what I have experienced ("POIS") was not of a physiological origin, I noticed no causal relationship with any emotional issues. But, there was a time I had a relationship with a woman who I felt very good about being with, like she was "the one". At the time that we had sex I had double vision and the next day it was gone suddenly and I had no POIS symptoms. This is the one piece of "evidence" that I have that POIS could partially be a consequence of sex outside of love, like skydiving without a parachute. But this is speculation on my part, and may be skewed by misreading this one experience in the light of my faith.

John

[imre1]

Theres someone on this forum that keeps on talking about post orgasmic genital pain and not POIS. He also keeps on posting about long masturbation sessions to combat this condition.

I think you have some persons mixed up. Not at all uncommon for a thread of this length.

I am suffering from a post orgasmic migraine which is unlike any of the standard forms of benign coital headache.

I think it is related to post orgasmic fatigue because fatigue causes headaches.

Further more I also have:
- mental fog
- heavy transpiration
- heat feelings
- ...

And I still think that this is caused by orgasm and that if you lower the orgasmic feeling, the symptoms disapppear.

[demografx]

Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I have posted this before but got a poor response )

Hi Bizzy,

I definitely experienced childhood trauma: (1) attended 8 years of parochial school which utilized heavy corporal punishment, and I was maligned and singled out by teachers and students alike for being of a different faith from others and (2) parents survived the Holocaust - a well known trauma for children of survivors.

I hope this helps.

[demografx]

DRY FINGERTIPS

Does anyone else experience extremely "dried up" (hard to describe) _fingertips_ during POIS period? Thank you.

[demografx]

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!

Wishing you all the best for 2008(including reduced or eliminated POIS symptoms for all of us!)

Just having this forum available has already helped me.