[Bizzy]

Heres an interesting idea I came up with whilst day-dreaming. I believe that most men experience a downturn in mood after orgasm ( remember the man who turns over and goes to sleep ). This post orgasmic depression is natures way of keeping the man around the woman he has just impregnated. This downturn is usually not severe and recovery soon occurs. With POIS the men do not recover because of a fault within the hypothalamus. There can be a number of reasons for this fault from genetics to childhood trauma. The recovery system does not function and the man remains depressed.
It is important to elucidate what hormone or neuro-peptide is resposible for this recovery system.
Too much cortisol or CRF might be responsible for the failure.

[demografx]

demografx thanks for explaining :-) we need to get to the bottom of the fact that Levitra works. I do not have ED, but it doesn't go as large as it used to be :-) but it is not a good enough reason for the doctor to give me Levitra. So we need to find out what Levitra has that helps with this problem after sex.

...If anyone knows if there is a relationship with cortisol to Levitra, please let me know.

Thanks

hk1979, I absolutely agree: we need to get to the bottom of this. Along those lines, I have been wondering now for a long time:

WOULD IT BE BENEFICIAL FOR THIS POIS FORUM TO HIRE A UROLOGIST OR CHEMIST OR OTHER PROFESSIONAL/SCIENTIST TO HELP US SORT THIS OUT? (not just Levitra, but cortisol, dopamine, relora, serotonin, DHEA, i.e., all the credible ideas presented here)

I don't think any of us here have the credentials needed to take this seriously to the next step, that is, to come up with solid recommendations to combat POIS that can be implemented by the POIS-sufferer and his doctor based on the patient's individual needs!

And it wouldn't cost us much if the consulting fees were spread out over all the willing members here. We could even agree on a budget _beforehand_ (e.g., let's have this consultant review all the POIS FORUM posts and see what we get for US$100,$200, or $300 etc.)

EVERYONE: PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA!

[demografx]

B_Jim, Thank you! I'm all for any way to take this to the next step.

I have a feeling that somewhere within all the POIS Forum posts here - and with a trained, medical/scientific eye - lies an answer to relieve much suffering!

B_Jim, can you write to ISSM? Or tell me what should go in the letter and I'll write/send it?

[demografx]

TO EVERYONE:

If you are interested in our finding an outside consultant to study all our POIS posts and formulate concrete medical testing recommendations that you can share with your doctor, please indicate your interest by: I suggest a date of APRIL 20 (for your yes or no) - so far, it's me and B_Jim.

We need more than 2 people to hire/pay for POIS medical/consulting services. BUT YOUR "YES" WILL NOT COMMIT YOU TO ANY SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF MONEY. Just an indication of willingness to participate. We can then decide amongst us how much we are willing to invest.

Thank you very much for your consideration of this effort.

[Guthrie]

Yes, I would be interested in the outside consultant idea.  Of course, I guess one tricky part could be figuring out what area of expertise the consultant should have...

[hk1979]

If it has to do with hormones and glands, I suppose an endocrinologist  would be the right type of consultant to get. Diabetes is the main type of disorder they usually deal with, but I firmly believe POIS is almost the same reaction to sex as diabetes is to sugar. Both also are closely related to cortisol hormone. Please read this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrinologist [nofollow]

BTW I am also in, but remember I am in South Africa, our currency is very weak against the US Dollar (8/1), so my contribution will not be so high.

But I suppose our Endocrinologists will also be the cheapest to hire? I'll find out what they charge for research....

[Guthrie]

Yes, I agree that endicrinology seems like the closest field to POIS-issues.  However, I went to see an endocrinologist recently, who said that given his training, he had no ideas and no suggestions for me.  That was discouraging, but I suppose that other endocrinologists could have more insight.

[demografx]

Can anyone recommend a top endocrinologist?

[John21 (OP)]

Jim, I would not say my experience with Relora was bad, only that it affected me a lot. My insomnia is very sensitive to substances, even a wee bit of alcohol will throw me off. If anything my experience is positive in that it demonstrates that it actually has a real effect, perhaps not beneficial for POIS, that's undetermined as of yet.

Demografx I do not think it is profitable to invest hiring a consultant. Many years of strange looks from doctors and test after test unable to find a problem or at least demonstrate it...I have given up spending time or money on it, other than perhaps the occasional supplement. I do much better to just avoid it. I think any consultant would be very expensive and I am very doubtful of any success. Any researcher would need data to analyze. Perhaps someone with an in depth knowledge of human physiology could listen to our experiences and give some suggestions, but I am doubtful that it would be worthwile.

[pyropeach]

My experience with doctors have been the same-even my endocrinologist who just looked at me funny.  Suffice it to say, they've given up because they simply can't find anything wrong no matter how many tests they run.

Though I'd like to mention a method that has greatly helped reduce the symptoms in intensity and duration; I get better in a matter of a single day as opposed to an entire week.  The way it works is a little weird and people tend to ignore it whenever I try to discuss it.  Basically it is prolonged masturbation without ejaculation.  I came across it in my own research about POIS - apparently its an ancient Chinese tradition of Taoism where they believed prolonged masturbation without ejaculation enhances wellbeing and health.  To my surprise, it does have a noticeable affect on me...its not perfect, but its better than nothing.

There's also some scientific evidence that seems to support this found here if anyone is interested:
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/reprint/177/1/57

It seems just before orgasm, levels of epinephrine and norepinephrine reach a peak.  I think its possible that if ejaculation is avoided, no orgasm occurs and these chemicals are not allowed to drop from their peaks.  Likewise, levels of dopamine would also stay at its peak that would inhibit any excess prolactin present (which in my case is unusually high, which is said to inhibit dopamine).  I think its possible that its the replenishment of dopamine that restores concentration and the feeling of well being.  Of course anything could be happening.  One thing I know for sure is that this is probably the most direct method I know of how to change the levels of chemicals in our body, and somehow these changes trigger these levels to reset at a quicker pace than having to wait for an entire week.  This method has worked better than any of the medications and supplements I have tried...or should I say endured...

[Guthrie]

Pyropeach,

That method sounds interesting--when did you first discover it?  Do you find that it makes a difference whether the masturbation-without-orgasm session goes on for an extended period of time, repeatedly getting close to orgasm and then stopping, or does it work just as well if you simply get close to orgasm once and then stop?

Also, how soon after you have the POIS-inducing orgasm do you employ this 'reset' method?  Right away? Within a couple hours? Or the next day?

[pyropeach]

Discovered it about 3 years ago, but only started trying it in the recent year.  At least for me, the method works pretty well by getting close to orgasm only once and then stopping.  Repeated this method an additional time did not seem to have any additional affect that felt significant.  I've been able to successfully use this method in as little as within a few hours after getting the symptoms.  In a matter of minutes, the symptoms start to diminish and by the next day the symptoms are still there, but to the point where they're almost gone and I can get on with the day.  It sounds pretty good, but I'm not jumping for joy because it is a very inconvenient and frustrating thing to do,

My main worry about this is it being a placebo affect, which I doubt, but still consider it a possibility.

[hk1979]

pyropeach

thanks for sharing, as it explains also why smoking a cigarette after sex also helps a bit... nicotine elevates epinephrine and norepinephrine levels.

[Bizzy]

Can anyone recommend a top endocrinologist?

I dont think just an endocrinologist will be able to shed any more light. A research endocrinologist tied to a university would be the best way forward. Ill leave it up to you guys to find and presuade one.

[Guthrie]

Yes, I agree with Bizzy that a research endocrinologist, rather than simply a clinical endocrinologist, would be more likely to be of help.  It seems that many clinical endocrinologists are only trained to diagnose things that are already 'in the books.'

[hk1979]

exactly Guthrie! our doctors always refer to the books, and then find nothing related, therefor the reason why we are all monitoring this site.... waiting for a solution. it should be somebody thats more than a doctor. somebody that is a professor in endocrinology at a university. and I think he would not even charge us if it will make him famous!

I think we can contact the University of Oxford. Below is the link:

http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/gazette/previousissues/54vol2/Part19 [nofollow]

[demografx]

POIS FORUM ADVISOR - NEXT STEP

hk1979, excellent point about "POIS fame" AND "...more than a doctor needed"! - now, would someone please volunteer to initiate the contact with Oxford? (I'm a musician, and there are people here better qualified to write to a scientist than me, plus I have a bias with 75% POIS cure with Levitra). It should be mentioned that there is only one paper out on POIS, but that this is a critical cure mission, surely to be covered by the media, as was Dr Waldinger's POIS study/article). If Oxford doesn't cooperate there are many other prospects, and the same letter can be used.

[demografx]

For John21 and those of you who mentioned "blank stares" from doctors, I've been there!!! But maybe, just MAYBE, the 21 pages on this Forum reveal that POIS is............R E A L !!!!!!!! We also have some success to show, e.g., Levitra. But now we need to find out (just as an example here) what makes Levitra work for POIS, and how can everyone benefit whether they have ED or not?

I'm sure that if today we approached those same doctors who gave us blank stares in the past, and SHOWED them the 21 Pages here, that some of the doctors (not all, because after all - -  lazy is lazy []) might sit up and take notice. And then actually DO something about our POIS []

[neilep]

I would collect and put in this forum keyboards like Bayer, Novartis, Merck, Pfizer, Roche, Glaxo, Quintiles and POIS.
The target is to attract people and scientists to get here and learn about this uncovered illness that affect many men in this world.
Why not all of us write an request to  clinical.info@quintiles.com requiring an investigation about POIS as well?

Hi Solution,


May I ask if you are in any way affiliated with Quintiles ?

[John21 (OP)]

Solution:
... is well known that too much masturbation sucked the life force of a man.

B_Jim: Be careful with a such statement. We have a problem after ejaculation, but that's not a general rule. We can't afford to lose the little credibility that we have.

It may be possible that the phenomenon is more universal, but that only certain people are more affected in such a direct, extreme manner. I have wondered if many common everyday mental disturbances such as depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, emotional disturbances etc were partially born of "sex abuse", the product of lust in adolescence.

Unmentionable, unrecognized... unsolvable.