[demografx]

THINKING OF YOU ALL

OK, I've been avoiding you-know-what for a loooong time, but about 1/2 hour ago I did you-know-what [] , so......now I have mini-POIS (75% cured with Levitra). And I just thought to myself, "you know, it's easier now that I have a group of fellow (and female) POIS-sufferers" And it is! Thanks for being here, crowd! Those were lonely decades fighting POIS alone, and after decades of doctors' discouragement, convinced I was probably the only one in the world to have POIS! (I didn't even think there would ever be a name for this stupid malady, except maybe stark-raving-madness/lunacy [] )

[demografx]

AFTER A HOT SHOWER...

A hot shower really helps my POIS! But how long can we stay in the shower? []

It's been an hour-and-a-half since POIS onset, and guess what? I feel 90% + cured! I'll let you know if this holds up for the rest of the day, but if it does, my suspicion is that I held off ejac for 2 to 3 months! That's probably why. As some of you have indicated, the reverse is true: if we have multiple ejac episodes in a few days, POIS can get really bad (in my case disastrous!!)

Keep in mind Levitra can be dangerous for those without ED. Work VERY closely under a doctor's supervision.

And if we find an endocrinologist, perhaps s/he can unravel the SPECIFIC PARTS of Levitra that make it work (for me)and then see if it can work for others.

Have a great weekend everybody!

[solution]

congrats girlwind!!!

[imre1]

If anybody is interested i found a connection between asexuality and high prolactin.

On a Dutch site "http://www.lydiavanderweide.nl/viva/artikel.php?pArt=017" i found out:

"Wanneer bij mannen of vrouwen het lichaam bijvoorbeeld veel te veel prolactine produceert - het hormoon dat bij vrouwen wordt afgescheiden die borstvoeding geven - zijn zij op geen enkele manier te prikkelen en ervaren geen zin of lust. Dit hormoon zet de sexuele thermostaat namelijk op nul."

Wich translates as:

"When the body of men and women produces to much prolactine - The hormone that is excrated by women who breast feed - they are in no way susceptible to libido and they have no interest in sex. This hormone sets the sexual termostate to 0."

Given the fact that men are known to masturbate on average every 3 days. And the people here can often go without sex to up to a month without major problems. This might be an indication of high prolactin.

Of high prolactin, and acompanying low dopamine, it is known to cause symptoms similar to the once described on this forum and here:
http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain

Which might be an indication that post orgasmic symptoms are a form of asexuality. The body does not want sex and if you do it anyway it reacts badly.

[demografx]

POIS DAY ONE

Yesterday was "release-day" - with Levitra 10mg for my ED - and today........SYMPTOM FREE! In the past I would have had 3+ days of agony/torture aka POIS symptoms.

I am hopeful that some further research by outsiders with our group here can find the POIS-affecting-mechanism at work so that Levitra could be used SAFELY for those without ED.

In my opinion, Levitra has a potential for danger for those without ED. And even with ED, there have been reported some serious side effects. I just happen to be lucky. And also legitimately needing it.

[sparx]

sparx, there have been cases of 100% recovery.  You will see references to this if you read this thread from the beginning again.

Someone (with POIS) was given Zoloft for depression.  Supposedly it did not cure the depression, but there was a 100% recovery from POIS.

Perhaps that is not a 'cure', but it is a 100% treatment, in any case, for that person.   There may have also been a case where someone used Wellbutrin and recovered from POIS.  (This would make sense if POIS were primarily caused by dopamine depletion).

Thanks Counterpoint; I forgot about this case (here's link [nofollow] for others to review. It would be great to know if this person is still free from POIS after 10 months (great!! if he is)

B_Jim:   Any chance of contacting him for an update?

I'm seriously considering Wellbutrin (Zyban) to see if  its effects on  it can clear up POIS brain fog. Just a little hesitant though, because the possible side-effects look a bit scary and it would have to happen in a systematic way over several weeks to really understand its efficacy (meaning also, that if it doesn't work or takes time to kick in I could be fogged for weeks - not an appealing thought).

[Counterpoints]

I'm seriously considering Wellbutrin (Zyban) to see if its effects on POIS brain fog. Just a little hesitant though, because the possible side-effects look a bit scary and it would have to happen in a systematic way over several weeks to really understand its efficacy (meaning also, that if it doesn't work or takes time to kick in I could be fogged for weeks - not an appealing thought).

I wouldn't worry about brain-fog caused by Wellbutrin (bupropion).  I would recommend starting at 150 mg/day using an extended-release tablet; this is a relatively low dosage, but you would still likely notice the effects.  XR (also known as XL) is longer lasting than "sustained release", and so you would only need to take it once a day (in the morning), and you would avoid feeling as though you were coming on and off the drug.   You will feel quite energetic and somewhat anxious for the first few days, and may have trouble sleeping the first few nights.  I would recommend persisting until these side effects subside, which should happen relatively quickly.  In the meantime, they would help you get some work done.  Normally, you would begin to experience positive side effects after about 3 weeks.

Demografx: I don't see why Levitra would be more or less dangerous depending on whether the person taking it had ED?

[Michael8028]

If anybody is interested i found a connection between asexuality and high prolactin.

On a Dutch site "http://www.lydiavanderweide.nl/viva/artikel.php?pArt=017" i found out:

"Wanneer bij mannen of vrouwen het lichaam bijvoorbeeld veel te veel prolactine produceert - het hormoon dat bij vrouwen wordt afgescheiden die borstvoeding geven - zijn zij op geen enkele manier te prikkelen en ervaren geen zin of lust. Dit hormoon zet de sexuele thermostaat namelijk op nul."

Wich translates as:

"When the body of men and women produces to much prolactine - The hormone that is excrated by women who breast feed - they are in no way susceptible to libido and they have no interest in sex. This hormone sets the sexual termostate to 0."

Given the fact that men are known to masturbate on average every 3 days. And the people here can often go without sex to up to a month without major problems. This might be an indication of high prolactin.

Of high prolactin, and acompanying low dopamine, it is known to cause symptoms similar to the once described on this forum and here:
http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain

Which might be an indication that post orgasmic symptoms are a form of asexuality. The body does not want sex and if you do it anyway it reacts badly.

There is definetly a connection between high prolactin levels and slow refractory times especially with my old prolactin hormone test at the very top of the range.This was when my POIS symptoms was at its worst.

I can not remember the range of the prolactin test exactly but it was somewhere in the region of 2-17 and my prolactin levels at the time was 16. Life extension recommends an optimal healthy range between 2-4 so 16 is way off.

This was 3-4 days after any ejaculation so imagine if it was taking say 12-24 hours after ejaculation when POIS are at its worst or whichever timeframe POIS symptoms is at its worst depending on the individual.

I plan too take furthur prolactin and hormone tests in the future but this time 12-24 hours after ejaculation too see which hormones are being imbalanced after ejaculating. I also plan too take a full metabolic analysis and neurotransmitter urine tests post ejaculation and these tests should show me also what neurotransmitters are depleting after ejaculating and also what vitamins, minerals and nutrients are depleting too after ejaculating.

DHEA PLEASE READ :

If ones Dhea levels are already optimal which can be checked via blood/saliva test then taking futhur Dhea
orally will convert too estrogen which can lead too unwanted "feminine" characteristics in men.

Best way too take Dhea without estrogen conversion is
transdermally or sublingually.

[Michael8028]

Interesting read on page 16 from a poster Dave23:


http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.375

He seems too have just about cured his POIS by getting his hormone
levels in the optimal ranges which iam trying too do also.

Although he doesnt seem too have posted in a while so i will pm him and
see  how hes doing with his POIS, has anyone had any direct pms with this
poster?

[Michael8028]

my POIS is similar to things I do that deplete my adrenaline, like playing soccer or rugby for more than 2 hours, I get very tired and sometimes nauseas, dehydrated. if anyone plays tennis or squash or does very physical extreme sport for more than 3 hours, tell us if your feelin the day afterwards is similar to POIS. I guess if you are fit, then your POIS is also not as bad as the days when you were unfit? With fit I mean trained to endure long physical activity, and good lung pump to muscular and nervous system.

A good indication may be: does POIS make your legs and arms stiff. Like you feel you cannot stretch them easily?

Yes after 2-3 hours of exercise/sports the next morning will feel like a POIS morning, very similar although not as intense.

[demografx]

Demografx: I don't see why Levitra would be more or less dangerous depending on whether the person taking it had ED?

Counterpoints, as I mentioned way back in an earlier post, I googled Levitra and saw a post that said to be careful because of the way Levitra works with blood flow to the heart for those without ED. This is admittedly very sketchy and anecdotal as a source, but it concerned me enough to repeat it. I said in the post you responded to that it "may"...perhaps I should leave it alone? I just get very concerned with medical advice being tossed around here quite loosely. Remember, many of us are desperate and will try anything!

But I hope you're right! It would be wonderful if Levitra could work for everyone...SAFELY. (it's too easy to get Levitra on the internet and mail order). There is also some question of vision loss with insufficient blood going to the optic nerve. Loss of vision concern is written on my Rx. But that too is controversial as to cause and effect.

So from now on, I'll just say, "consult your physician." Fair enough?

[martin88]

Michael,
I'd like to know if you have other sources mentionning differents ranges than conventionals for hormones. Also, is there a place where i can read about the top 5 labs ? I believe that lack of testosterone or problem with testosterone utilization is involved in pois but i'm concerned about side effects of T replacement. For example testicles shrinking (at least it's hormone cream savings !). What can you do for this ? http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=173268

A solution can be to take clomid to restart your own production of T but the whole thing seems to me to be a risk. http://www.saanabolicreview.co.za/clomid.html
Please keep us informed about the planned tests you mention in your post, i'll apreciate.

In the link posted by Sparx http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/36/robinson.html
it's written : "after sexual satiation there is a drastic reduction in androgen receptor density". Does someone know more about these androgens receptors ? This theory can explain why only the first shot of T was effective for Demografx. (or placebo you're right Demografx !)
I know about 5 alpha-reductase deficiency which is causing lack of DHT (an androgen responsible for secondary sexual characteristics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase
Perhaps it's the androgen receptor mentionned above.

[Counterpoints]

Demo: I totally understand your concern.  I was just curious why the dangers of Levitra would be any different depending on whether the person had ED.  You're probably right about 'blindness' effects, etc, being kind of sketchy and anecdotal.  I agree consulting a physician is a good idea before trying new meds.

[martin88]

Finally I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_receptor but i still need a connection between orgasm and reduction in androgen receptor density. Thanks.

[Michael8028]

Martin,

I dont have any other sources of other optimal hormone
ranges at the moment from Anti Aging practitioners. 

Most Anti Aging doctors do not
post their recommended idea range of hormones online
and usually only provide these info's to their patients
through direct appointments.

The source I provided from Lef is actually from a highly
regarding Anti Aging practitioner in Philip Lee Miller, MD.

He is the founder and medical director of the Los Gatos
Longevity Institute in Los Gatos, CA. His practice is dedicated
to antiaging medicine focusing on bio-identical natural hormone
replacement, nutritional medicine, complex lipid disorders, and
stress management. He is a diplomate of the American Board on
Anti-Aging Medicine.

You can see his ranges also in his LEF recommended book Life Extension Revolution
by P. Miller, MD.

Here is Lef's medical advisory board:

http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/medadv.htm

[Michael8028]

Testosterone may or may not be connected too POIS depending
on the individual. It would be best too test the hormones
first before coming too the conclusion.

Modern effective Anti Aging doctors will usually prescribe
HCG too prevent the testicles from shrinking.

HCG (Chorionic Gonadotropin)

HCG acts like LH (Luteinizing Hormone).

LH has several actions, such as:
1. It stimulates testosterone production from the testes
2. It stimulates the production of aromatase enzyme
3. It stimulates the production of Cytochrome P450sc enzyme

Im on 125iu E2d but I was on 250iu but decreased as my
Progesterone levels were sky high as provided in the
previous page.

Taking above 500ius of HCG long term can desensitize the
LH receptors. This was posted by a highly regarded Anti Aging
doctor in Dr John Crisler on the forums of Anabolicminds.com.

Nowadays TRT specialists will recommend T shots E2D r E3D
too control Estrogen conversion. In the past they would
do T Shots every Week or every fortnight.

This would cause most patients too have alot of Estrogen
problems due too the very high dose of T taking in one shot.
Plus up and down effects of mental, emotional and physical
wellbeing.

[Michael8028]

Yes your right about Clomid.

Most people who have used Clomid experience emotional problems.
It is a very common side effect of Clomid.

Although I have read in one case where someone had great success
with Clomid and Nolvadex in restarting their natural testosterone
functions here :

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/men-s-health-forum/day-one-attempting-restart-134240826.html

I'll definetly post my hormone, metabolic and neurotransmitter test results here
once they have been done.

[Michael8028]

Michael,
I'd like to know if you have other sources mentionning differents ranges than conventionals for hormones. Also, is there a place where i can read about the top 5 labs ? I believe that lack of testosterone or problem with testosterone utilization is involved in pois but i'm concerned about side effects of T replacement. For example testicles shrinking (at least it's hormone cream savings !). What can you do for this ? http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=173268

A solution can be to take clomid to restart your own production of T but the whole thing seems to me to be a risk. http://www.saanabolicreview.co.za/clomid.html
Please keep us informed about the planned tests you mention in your post, i'll apreciate.

In the link posted by Sparx http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/36/robinson.html
it's written : "after sexual satiation there is a drastic reduction in androgen receptor density". Does someone know more about these androgens receptors ? This theory can explain why only the first shot of T was effective for Demografx. (or placebo you're right Demografx !)
I know about 5 alpha-reductase deficiency which is causing lack of DHT (an androgen responsible for secondary sexual characteristics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase
Perhaps it's the androgen receptor mentionned above.

Yes your right about Dht as it is the main hormone responsible for libido. It is actually known as the alpha male hormone out of the hormone family.

I actually use Dht gel due too low Dht levels and high Progesterone levels. Progesterone lowers Dht and causes no/low libido and using Dht lowers Progesterone levels.

Although there has been some studies that suggest Dht can cause
prostate problems but there has also been some studies that Dht
isnt the culprit and that high Estrogens or imbalanced estrogen
ratios are the culprit for prostate problems.

So far with my own experience imbalanced Estrogens are at fault for
prostate problems.

High Dht levels can cause balding and if ones families are prone too balding then most likely mixed with high Dht levels, balding will occur.

Martin have you had any hormone tests done ?

[Alan McDougall]

John,

The others have given you amazing help. What I  would respectfully like to ask, is there no guilt involved such as a very strict religious upbringing which sort of puts sex in the realm of something unpleasant and ugly instead of beautiful like it really is between those that love each other?
Regards

Alan

[Michael8028]

I forgot too add that Low testosterone levels isnt just caused by
hypogonadism where the testes no longer produce testosterone.

Low functioning of the Adrenal glands and Thyroids can
lower Testosterone levels too.

Usually when one fixes their Adrenal glands and Thyroids,
Testosterone levels increase too. I made this mistake
in not fixing my Adrenals and Thyroids and going straight
too T Shots.

Also high Estrogens, high Prolactin, high Cortisol, high SHBG, low Thyroids,
and high Insulin levels can lower Testosterone too. There is probably
a few others but thats all I can think off right now.