[demografx]

I just had a heart to heart with my Endocrinologyst.  This is the first time I told her about POIS directly.  In the past I alway told her about the symptoms so that I could get tests (doctors tend to give you tests when just give them 'blind' symptoms).  So now she knows they weren't 'blind'

Anyhow, she had no idea what was causing POIS ; however, she did recommend that I see a urologyst (sp?).  She said that urologysts deal with sexual problems.  Sigh...I tried to tell her that the symptoms all led to endrocine problems.  She also said she doesn't think it's endocrine because I don't have physical problems like troubles getting erection or ejaculating.  But that the problems are cognative (and boy do I hate cognative problems).  So thats that.  I just wanted to share it with you and add to our 'library'.

Dazed and confused (literally),
Limejuice

FWIW, I've had zero-understanding from urologists. They were one of my biggest disappointments. Mainly because my expectations of them were high: I thought just like your endocrinologist that urologist = sexual disturbances. A natural. No way!

And your endocrinologist sounds just like Girlwind's warnings.

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

Well, yesterday was the day, with 20mg Levitra, up from 10mg for over a year. 20mg is better than the last 2X at 10mg. Maybe I built tolerance. Maybe the expiration date of the last 10mg's reduced its effectiveness those two times before.

Just a little tired today. I wonder if that's normal? Athletes are told to refrain sexually the day before.

Anyway, this is far from the POIS agony of my life. Hope it's not a new placebo []

[Limejuice]

Good luck Demo - I hope your new experiement is safe and effective.  I look forward to your next diary entry.

I still feel like my Endocrinologist was heart-felt and genuine and wanted to help if she know what the solution was.  She has offered to do light research and I told her about this website and the other doctor from Holland.  I don't know what will come of it but I feel as though if I want to do blood work she will allow me to experiement.  That is valuable to me and us.  Just speaking my mind.

[tarkington]

I feel less crazy when I know that you, demografx, have been down a similar thinking process.  I used to be so intense in trying to find a reason, some spiritual cure, that would allow me to be guilt free. I am sure there are alot of people in the same situation.  I wonder just how common POIS is? 

[barry_duffman]

[...]OK, guys and gals, two hours ago I took  []20mg of Levitra (my pharmacology-lawyer friend said if I didn't go blind with 10mg I should be ok with 20!) - oh, man, what I risk in the name of science!

So far, as always, my fingertips are "dried up" (hard to describe) - but not as bad as usual. [...]

Hi demografx. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "dried up" fingertips?

Skin wrinkling due to water immersion is an indicator of sympathetic innervation, and IMO may potentially be affected by certain types of autonomic dysfunction.

"Water immersion wrinkling--physiology and use as an indicator of sympathetic function." (Clin Auton Res. 2004 Apr;14(2):125-31.)
newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095056 [nonactive]

"Water-immersion wrinkling is due to vasoconstriction." (Muscle Nerve. 2003 Mar;27(3):307-11.)
newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12635117 [nonactive]

Thanks!

[Whoa]

I want to mention that before I found this forum I was reading religious forums like
http://www.fredstoeker.com/community/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=b16fea73a5ad7b6641f12646c030013d [nofollow]

There are alot of people that believe their POIS symptoms are due to guilt and religious in nature.  I thought this for a long time.  But I realized after reading this forum that I was suffering from a physical problem, not spiritual.

I think that's a load of bollocks, at least in my case. I've never had any guilt over orgasm and am not religious.

That said, the Taoists equate the loss of ejaculatory fluid with the loss of vital life force. This leads me to believe that perhaps POIS has been around for some time and is not some new thing that popped up as the result of all the chemically "enhanced" foods we consume nowadays.

Personally, I find the Taoist approach more reasonable even if it is not backed by science.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KWZ/is_9_6/ai_n15394266 [nofollow]
http://www.healing-tao.co.uk/Article_Taoist_Ejaculation_Formula.htm [nofollow]

The times that I've tried Tantra, I've felt satisfied without ejaculation, I had no POIS symptoms. There definitely is a link between ejaculation and POIS, for me anyway.

[laroux]

My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms and possibly is causing them.  Prior to the onset of POIS at age 34, she had never had issues with feeling lousy after orgasm, now she is basically bedridden for two days afterward.  All of her symptoms seem to be the same as the men who post on this forum.  She also has been complaining of severe back and shoulder pain (unrelated to sex) for about the same 2 year period.  She has tried all sorts of treatments for the back pain and none seem to work.  She also has the same POIS systems the day after after drinking ANY alchol... and I mean only 1 sip.  She doesn't get the typical hangover (headache, nausea) like most people, just severe POIS like symptoms.  She says it feels exactly the same.  I think it was this link that helped us to find out what was going on with her.

Yesterday we were just cuddling and both became aroused.  The phone rang and the mood passed... we wound up not having sex.  Even so, she began suffering from POIS systems shortly afterward.  Out of compassion for her and frustration for what was happening to her, I began researching the link between sexual arousal and hormone release.  In both men and women, I found that Oxytocin and Vasopressin are released during sexual arousal and peak their release during orgasm.  I further discovered that in some people, this release of Oxytocin and vasopressin can cause hyponatremia,( newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia [nonactive]) which can result in the severe myalgiaic symptoms, fatigue and headache that she experiences.  The result of the hyponatremia is a low sodium electrolyte balance.  I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else tried saltwater and felt better?

While we don't know the root cause of her sodium electrolyte imbalance, we have now tried the saltwater thing 3-4 times and in every case it has not only resolved her symptoms completely but made her feel fantastic.  Her back pain and joint pain even resolved.  Clearly she has to be careful about how much saltwater she ingests but the link between electrolyte imbalance and her POIS symptoms could not be ignored.  Has anyone else tried this treatment with success?

She has not had any alcohol since we discovered this treatment for her POIS symptoms.  We don't know if they are related but if anyone else has these "hangovers" that mirror POIS symptoms after just a tiny amount of alcohol, we'd be very interested to know.  Also, please let us know if the saltwater works for you.

[demografx]

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

[demografx]

[...]OK, guys and gals, two hours ago I took  []20mg of Levitra (my pharmacology-lawyer friend said if I didn't go blind with 10mg I should be ok with 20!) - oh, man, what I risk in the name of science!

So far, as always, my fingertips are "dried up" (hard to describe) - but not as bad as usual. [...]

Hi demografx. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "dried up" fingertips?

Skin wrinkling due to water immersion is an indicator of sympathetic innervation, and IMO may potentially be affected by certain types of autonomic dysfunction.

"Water immersion wrinkling--physiology and use as an indicator of sympathetic function." (Clin Auton Res. 2004 Apr;14(2):125-31.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095056

"Water-immersion wrinkling is due to vasoconstriction." (Muscle Nerve. 2003 Mar;27(3):307-11.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12635117

Thanks!

Welcome, Barry!

Don't forget to grab some popcorn and see Girlwind's POIS video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

For our internal information sharing and outside researchers' use, a questionnaire:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

Barry, the dried up fingertips are hard to explain. I only get them in POIS. The fingertips feel numb, dry and the sensation - for some reason - drives me nuts! []

I once visited a skeptical dermatologist about this, and he said, indeed, I had dermatitis during POIS! He prescribed a worthless skin care lotion []

I hope you find this place reassuring and helpful and welcoming!

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

Well, yesterday was the day, with 20mg Levitra, up from 10mg for over a year. 20mg is better than the last 2X at 10mg. Maybe I built tolerance. Maybe the expiration date of the last 10mg's reduced its effectiveness those two times before.

Just a little tired today. I wonder if that's normal? Athletes are told to refrain sexually the day before.

Anyway, this is far from the POIS agony of my life. Hope it's not a new placebo []

POIS DIARY

OK, It's "Day 2" and I'm much less tired. My fingertip sensations - and other POIS symptoms! - were gone yesterday and today.

I'm still feeling the higher anti-POIS strength of 40mg Levitra vs 20mg. Beware placebo, of course.

Very optimistic at times. As I mentioned, the two previous times at 10mg were disappointing.

I'm still not crazy about the reported nasty side effects of Levitra...which can be horrendous! Who cares if it's only one-in-a-million...if that one-in-a-million is you!

I hope to eventually investigate Horny Goat Weed. Sounds much safer...or is it???

Thanks for listening, everyone!

[demografx]

My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms and possibly is causing them...I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else tried saltwater and felt better?

Welcome, laroux! You're a really caring boyfriend!

For your girlfriend, see our forum member Girlwind's (yes, female!) POIS video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

The saltwater idea is amazing! I'm sure there will be more-than-willing trials here at the forum! Thank you, laroux!

Anyone, any thoughts about saltwater and/or vasopressin and/or oxytocin as it relates to our previous discussions?

laroux, I no longer drink alcohol, but when I did, if it was excessive (it didn't take much, but more than a sip was needed), I could have a 4-day hangover. Not the same as POIS, but some similarities. The critical fact was that it lasted the 4 days. Same with jet lag. And Monday back-to-work blues (which lasted often till Thursday). I assume there's a connection somehow between POIS and all those other days-long disturbances.

[girlwind]

My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms
and possibly is causing them...I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else
tried saltwater and felt better?

While we don't know the root cause of her sodium electrolyte imbalance, we have now tried the saltwater thing 3-4 times and in every case
it has not only resolved her symptoms completely but made her feel fantastic.  Her back pain and joint pain even resolved.  Clearly she has
to be careful about how much saltwater she ingests but the link between electrolyte imbalance and her POIS symptoms could not be ignored. 
Has anyone else tried this treatment with success?

She has not had any alcohol since we discovered this treatment for her POIS symptoms.  We don't know if they are related but if anyone else
has these "hangovers" that mirror POIS symptoms after just a tiny amount of alcohol, we'd be very interested to know.  Also, please let us know
if the saltwater works for you.

Thanks Laroux. The saltwater remedy is a great idea! And something I will definitely consider. It was one of the remedies
I recently read about in a book by a woman who cured herself of CFS. She has a chapter devoted to Maintaining Optimal Blood
Pressure, which is one of the big problems with CFS patients, like me. (I have both POIS and CFS and my average bp is about
95/55.)  According to her research, drinking more water and increasing salt intake can raise the blood volume, which naturally
elevates bp.

According to your research, the salt water could also help hyponatremia and its resulting electrolyte balance.
I really look forward to trying this and will keep you posted!

[Limejuice]

laroux - what brand of salt did you use?  Was it ionized?

[Limejuice]

Fenugreek update - I've used fenugreek for 2 weeks with continued success.  I almost feel POIS free around the clock now!  What I'm beginning to experience are mild sustained headaches like light pressure that I believe is from the fenugreek.  I stopped taking the herb for a day and the headaches disappeared.  Going forward I'll only take fenugreek before orgasm.

[demografx]

Fenugreek update - I've used fenugreek for 2 weeks with continued success.  I almost feel POIS free around the clock now!  What I'm beginning to experience are mild sustained headaches like light pressure that I believe is from the fenugreek.  I stopped taking the herb for a day and the headaches disappeared.  Going forward I'll only take fenugreek before orgasm.

Limejuice, congratulations!!!

[demografx]

FENUGREEK

What doses and frequency are people using? Is Solgar the preferred brand?

How was fenugreek first stumbled upon? What was the theory? Cortisol? Oxytocin?

Just a reminder: Fenugreek is in your pharmacy's Rx-interaction systems, so it behooves us to check to see if there is any potentially adverse consequence when taking fenugreek along with other medications, including OTC. I checked my Rx profile, and the pharmacist said she saw no problem with fenugreek for me.

[demografx]

Good luck Demo - I hope your new experiement is safe and effective.  I look forward to your next diary entry.

I still feel like my Endocrinologist was heart-felt and genuine and wanted to help if she know what the solution was.  She has offered to do light research and I told her about this website and the other doctor from Holland.  I don't know what will come of it but I feel as though if I want to do blood work she will allow me to experiement.  That is valuable to me and us.  Just speaking my mind.

Limejuice, great. Sorry if I was overly negative. I'm a little apprehensive about my first meeting with Doctor Endo []

[demografx]

I feel less crazy when I know that you, demografx, have been down a similar thinking process.  I used to be so intense in trying to find a reason, some spiritual cure, that would allow me to be guilt free. I am sure there are alot of people in the same situation.  I wonder just how common POIS is? 

From every indication I've seen, Tarkington, I think POIS is very rare.

In 30 years of fairly active seeking, I never met a doctor or therapist or counselor or clergy who's heard of it. And Dr Waldinger (the "founder" of POIS), who specializes in sexually-related illnesses in a hospital, only encountered 5 POIS cases in 5 years.

[laroux]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!  It's very reassuring to my girlfriend to know that she is not alone!  She wanted me to make sure that I mentioned that she used celtic sea salt to resolve her symptoms.  She used iodized salt this afternoon and it gave her a headache.  Please let us know if the sea salt and water works for you... and for those among you with medical credentials, please let us know if there is any validity to the hyponatremia theory.

[gement]

Hi everybody, I'm new here. This forum has been the best on the subject of POIS I have discovered so far. I want to say thank you to all the suffering who were so forthcoming with their posts. I have been suffering with POIS for about 20 years. I  have been diagnosed with unipolar depression for about 16 years. My psych. tells me he thinks the two are related. He is the director of psychiatry at my local hospital. During his experience and studies, he has seen some patients who have neuro-transmitting chemical imbalances in the brain also develop hypersensitivity to their bodies own chemicals, such as hormones and other chemicals. I initially had some POIS like symptoms result after exercising using weight resistance. Then a few years later I realized I was also having the symptoms after orgasm. Over the past 12 years the symptoms have been severe. The duration is 3 full days after activity, and began approx. 20-30 minutes after orgasm. The symptoms are as follows:

First day

1)Negative Energy Feeling in my body
2)Stuffy Nose
3)Mild Joint Pain (knees, knuckles, ankles, shoulders and wrists)
4)Body Stiffness (neck, back)
5)Pale Face, Dark Circles under eyes)
6)Itchy Skin, specially on the hands and fingers
7)Brain Fog (forgetfulness, altered speech)
8)Extreme Irritability
9)Insomnia

Days 2 and 3 (additional symptoms)

10)Itchy Eyes upon awakening
11)Extreme Fatigue
12)Irritable Bowel and Soft Stool
13)Throat Irritation
14)Clogged Ears
15)Sinus Headache
16)Self -Confidence Level dropped