[demografx]

Check out this article on dopamine depletion and what the sypmtoms were... it's eerie.
http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress

Laroux, the owner of that site, "reuniting" posts here occasionally. Look for MessageID in search result links listed below:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=POIS+reuniting+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenakedscientists.com&btnG=Search

[girlwind]

REPLY FROM MY LETTER TO UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGY GROUP

"I have had a couple of patients who have the complaints you describe and have not been able to come up with something brilliant
for them with the exception of treating the accompanying depression.
 
So, since you don't want to see me as a patient and since I have not been able to think of something special to do either diagnostically or
therapeutically, I am not sure how much good it would do to meet. "

Oh well.... it looks like we're on our own again. It will probably be us that present the cure to THEM. But we definitely
should charge a nice large fee for all our brilliant efforts. (since they don't have any)

[Limejuice]

Thanks for trying Demo.  This Dr. appears to have zero interest in helping us but this isn't the first time we've been rejected...and hopefully not the last - were a persistant group!

[demografx]

Oh well.... it looks like we're on our own again. It will probably be us that present the cure to THEM. But we definitely
should charge a nice large fee for all our brilliant efforts. (since they don't have any)

Thanks for trying Demo.  This Dr. appears to have zero interest in helping us but this isn't the first time we've been rejected...and hopefully not the last - were a persistant group!

Yes, don't worry. We are close to find .

Girlwind, Limejuice, B_Jim, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Your kind words really take some of the sting out of the disappointment!!

[demografx]

I just wrote to DR. MARCEL WALDINGER again and tried to make it pointed, and clear but diplomatic to please let us know if he has some time for us....

[demografx]

CLINICAL TRIAL

In some ways, we might be better off than a structured study, e.g., a clinical trial...funded by a pharmaceutical co. that would dictate to us what existing off-the-shelf medicines we should try. They would hardly stand still for our "experiments" with Fenugreek, relora, or heaven forbid...Levitra (if funding came from the manufacturer of Viagra!)

But I still dreamily envision a team of endocrinologists poring over all our POIS-thread posts and summary data with one "aha!" after another!

[Coreman]

Dear John and the other members,

Yes, Indeed, I've observed that an exhausted state (owing to stress, for instance) and/or lack of sleep makes POIS worse for me.

In addition to balancing my Neurotransmitters (SSRI, GABA, Relora), I keep on experimenting on the physiologic side.

Since I still cannot decide whether Neurotransmitter imbalances are cause or effect.

THE GOOD OLD QUESTION still awaits an answer: Neurotransmitter imbalances are cause or effect? If "cause", the real cause lying behind may be psychological. If "effect", the real cause may be physiologic (problems in metabolism, etc) The good old question... eheh

Since I have nothing to lose, I keep on experimenting the physical aspect as well.

In my case, MAGNESIUM, for instance, helps get back my power a bit, during the day. Besides this, intake of Ca + Mg (2/1) after a release, provides a sleep which is much more regenerating. In addition, refined sugar (!) helps much, in my case. Comment: " ATP production theory??? " Glucose, Magnesium, etc....?   

I still wonder on ATP and semen production. (I am testing L-Carnitine and Chromium-piccolinate again) 

Best regards,

Coreman.
 

Quote

1.    Worst day of the week:  is about Thursday, 'cause: 1. Already stressed/worn-out due to work, 2. already having lack of sleep,......  and THAN an orgasm:  POIS is like a nightmare, makes it difficult to cope with )


Are you saying that when you are in a stressed out/exhausted state and you have an orgasm the POIS is much worse? 

[rock27]

Coreman, B-Jim,

the question is indeed: is the neurotransmitter (or hormone) inbalance an effect or a cause?

if effect, then it's possibly caused by
1. (theory in post Coreman) metabolism problems. I don't really get this. Can you explain this? How would you test for this?
2 (theory in post B-Jim) auto-immune reaction. I would guess this can be tested. Check the amount of antibodies in your blood. I actually tested Lg-E total a while ago. The blood analyst then told me there was no allergic reaction. And also has not been, in the past. He told me that if there has been an allergic reaction, you can see it in your blood for quite a while.  I suggest we do more reading on this, as there are more antibodies, and then get this tested. So we know if it's an allergic reaction.

BTW: Thanks Coreman for your previous tips! So far Kundalini Yoga has also been helpful to me.  Hopefully I will fully benefit after a longer period. I am reading a book now quoting all it's benefits of Yoga for the endocrine system...Do you know specific yoga exercises to do 1) just after orgasm and 2) later on in the recovery process? I am very interested!

[Chewbacca]

Hi Guys/Gal

Sorry I've been away for so long. Anywho....I have some good news!!!! My POIS is ga ga ga GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It vanished after finind an amazing women and making love to her everyday(sometimes twice a day) for the past two and a half weeks. Consequently, my body has adapted to the sexual demands I have been placing on it. My hormones are surging like never before. My sex drive is like I was seventeen again. I have no erectile dysfunction or premature ejaculation to speak of. Just to give you an idea I usally reach orgasm after One minute. I went for 30 minutes yesturday!!I have had one to two orgasms everyday for the past two and a half weeks and I feel great. I no loger have any POIS like symptoms after sex.......and actually, I feel incredibly ENERGIZED!

It would seem that my POIS was both psychological and physical in nature. I have a therory. My POIS began after one year of celebacy. The body is all about adaptation and evironmental demand. Because I wasn't using my sexual response(having ejaculations)my sexual response began to match my behavior. Use it, or lose it so to speak. It's like a muscle. Use it and it becomes strong, don't and it becomes week. Now that I'm having sex everyday my sexual response cycle has adapted to the environmental demands I have been placing on it. Orgasms don't "hurt" me anymore because my body has readapted to having them.

Also, I really like my partner alot which means the oxytocin is probably surging. I still believe oxytocin(LOVE)is a major component in helping to alleviate symptoms of POIS.

Forthly, I have been seening a TCM doctor and taking herbal treatments for Kidney Chi deficeny. This helped a lot too.

The last thing is just my own psyhological sexual issues. My POIS probably had a strong psychological component. I'm having sex with a woman I really like, I feel great. Thier is no emotional contamination as it were with my sexual experience. I had alot of shame around masturbation, I think it's a major component of certain kinds of POIS like symptoms.

That's all i really have to offer. Hope maybe this helps some of you all. I'm Out! Take care and Good LUCK!!!!

[demografx]

Hi Guys/Gal

Sorry I've been away for so long. Anywho....I have some good news!!!! My POIS is ga ga ga GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations, Chewbacca!

[hurray]

Nice one, Chewbacca - great to hear of your success

What you are saying appears to strongly back up the "quality of orgasm" theory - the better the orgasm, the less effect POIS has. It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

However, I suspect that other hormones are also involved - maybe being head over heels in love with somebody changes other hormone levels also!

Great to hear of your success Chewbacca, and I hope you continue to post here - you've made some great contributions so far, and I hope you'll still come by once in a while to help us afflicted souls

[demografx]

It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

TO ALL: Per my previous post re Oxytocin: Direct administration can be dangerous, even fatal. From my pharmacologist-lawyer friend: "[demografx], oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."

[martin88]

I heard that when you're in love, only at the beginning of the relation, your PEA (phenylethylamine) is increased a lot. Maybe it's a temporary relief, but I really hope it's not !
For me all aphrodisiacs have always been a relief followed by lack of desire. However with all the chinese herbs, who knows ! I wish you good luck Chewbacca. Please inform us on the new developments even if it's in ten years, it will be great! For oxytocin I'm not sure but I think it's more linked with attachment with a partner later in the relation. Some supplements of PEA exist, to be taken with selegiline ... never heard about this before. PEA is also increased with drugs to treat ADHD (ex. Adderall), and with the amino acid phenylalanine.

[demografx]

MORE ABOUT OXYTOCIN

With my last cautionary note, I don't mean to suggest that we shut down discussions and/or exploration of oxytocin.

Fenugreek, for example, I think stimulates oxytocin and could turn out to be a good thing for many of us! And we may learn more as we go along about oxytocin's role in POIS and possibly oxytocin-synergists that could work well for us.

The cautionary note is meant for direct administration of oxytocin: great care/medical supervision needs to be used.

Also, the "deadly" note was more directed at people like me, i.e., those who use ED drugs such as Levitra. Also blood pressure-related complications I imagine can become serious for some people as well.

Articles such as the Psychology Today blog in my previous post promote oxytocin as a cure for shyness, and in my opinion, could create havoc if the doctor and/or patient aren't careful. And if oxytocin ever gets sold on the "black market" I can see serious problems there as well.

[martin88]

For oxytocin I'm not sure but I think it's more linked with attachment with a partner later in the relation.

Just a correction, I know oxytocin always increases the link between two partners after years, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be active also at the beginning of the relation.
However PEA is involved in the initial euphoria at the beginning of a relation and could be a cure for pois.

Back to oxytocin, I don't remember if this has been mentionned before, it's interesting that it's formed with amino acids : Oxytocin is a peptide of nine amino acids (a nonapeptide). The sequence is cysteine - tyrosine - isoleucine - glutamine - asparagine - cysteine - proline - leucine - glycine from :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin

Any problem with these parts of the brain could cause a lack of oxytocin:
Oxytocin receptors are expressed by neurons in many parts of the brain and spinal cord, including the amygdala, ventromedial hypothalamus, septum and brainstem.

[demografx]

Martin, thank you very much for your extensive information and commentary about oxytocin!

[demografx]

Nice one, Chewbacca - great to hear of your success

What you are saying appears to strongly back up the "quality of orgasm" theory - the better the orgasm, the less effect POIS has. It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

However, I suspect that other hormones are also involved - maybe being head over heels in love with somebody changes other hormone levels also!

Great to hear of your success Chewbacca, and I hope you continue to post here - you've made some great contributions so far, and I hope you'll still come by once in a while to help us afflicted souls

Hurray, this article backs up what you say about Chewbacca's falling-in-love hormones!
http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/lovesex/sciencelove.htm

My conclusion: we all need to buy Chewbacca's hormone inventory - immediately! Before it wears off! []

[John21 (OP)]

Chewbacca, congratulations on your success!

Forthly, I have been seening a TCM doctor and taking herbal treatments for Kidney Chi deficeny. This helped a lot too.

What herbal treatments are you taking?

[demografx]

I hope that everyone is aware of B_Jim's amazing work on summarizing all the POIS cases reported here in the last 2 years - please see Page 11 here.
Look for MessageID 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149350#msg149009

B_Jim continually updates this summary and also has found other POIS cases on the internet and reports those as well!

B_Jim has posted very helpfully to these POIS sufferers, many who are in the same agonizing situation (or worse) as we are!

Thank you, B_Jim!

[demografx]

CELTIC SEA SALT

Have there been any more improvements with this salt?