[underwater]

Steve--
Nice Description--
I think there is a correlation between "intensity of experience" (obviously totally subjective to each persons physiology), biochemical/bioelectric reactions therein, and recovery time. Lately, I've given a lot of thought to how I can strengthen my overall immune and nervous system. Perhaps the recovery time and intensity of discomfort can be diminished. I'm quite aware of the list of hormones and neurotransmitters that may very well be inolved in POIS and the imbalances triggered by orgasm (and even less than orgasm as you mention), but from past experiences, I know that there are ways to diminish the symptoms. Unfortunately for me, I can't run marathons anymore nor swim 80 minutes a day. This wipes out a good part of my endorphins that used to significantly reduce POIS. Also, I don't like to take drugs.
There have been periods in my life where small, sub therapeudic doses of valium used to help. But I won't do this anymore. Right now, I'm as mystified as ever. However, I think that I will continue to experiment with supplements. I may swim every other day instead of everyday and walk on the non swim days. When you mention that one out of ten times you are okay, I think this may be a natural consequence of a more well rested nervous system and thus less triggering of stress hormones. For me unfortunately, there is a lot of anticipatory anxiety involved in my condition, and thus I bring on unnecessary fear and hyper-excitation that exacerbates my situation. I first started having POIS symptoms over 20 years ago, but I didn't really put two and two together for a couple of years later. My POIS symptoms are identical to my anxiety/panic symptoms, except they have traditionally lasted 2 to 5 days before they vanish.

[underwater]

Hello Counterpoints---
I understand Steve to be referring  holistically to his nervous system when he discusses POIS. He observes that POIS is interconnected to sexual activity. Orgasm is the trigger for POIS as appears to be logically necessary in its description, but I have unfortunately triggered POIS symptoms mistakenly by nocturnal, dream state confusion without orgasm. For me, there is without question a clear psycho "somatic"
component to POIS, but rare. I have been trying to control that aspect of my condition with cognitive approaches, and it appears to be working. (cross my fingers)
My next step (hopefully) is to try this approach with the real thing. This whole thing is a complex, mind boggling bummer.
 

[SteveD]

Dear Counterpoints,

I am so grateful to have your quick response. Thank you.

I'm feeling a little confused, curious and excited.

To clarify around your question.

I notice five stages of this disease, for me.

1) deciding to be open to dating releases some chemical in my brain which is uncontrollable and light but it does not make my life unmanageable
2) Dating- at this point all females become potential appropriate partners and my neurochemistry is affected with each passing woman as I scan to see whether she is A) attractive
    B) emotional available C) able to successfully commit, etc, down a long list of my mental requirements for someone to be my partner.
3) hugging and kissing ( without tongues) My body is now engaged and it's like drinking 1 1/2 glasses of alcohol afterward...Still functional though
4) non orgasmic sexuality. As as POIS sufferer I have learned to be non-orgasmic and yet I can be manually , orally or penal vaginally sexual , for hours . The onslaught of POIS symptoms is ferocious and I have not been orgasmic. I have made "heavy going" of life at this point. Normal activities are extremely difficult.
5) Orgasmic sexuality...Now I experience the total immersion into pathology, what I call 'pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization'

I hope that helps. Thanks for your response.

Steve D.

[SteveD]

>>>>Nice Description--

Thanks Underwater, I appreciate your erudition and clarity.

>>>>> I'm quite aware of the list of hormones and neurotransmitters that may very well be involved in POIS and the imbalances triggered by orgasm (and even less than orgasm as you mention), but from past experiences, I know that there are ways to diminish the symptoms.

I know very little about the neurochemistry of this condition

>>>>Unfortunately for me, I can't run marathons anymore nor swim 80 minutes a day. This wipes out a good part of my endorphins that used to significantly reduce POIS.

That is illuminating. 18 months ago I decreased my cardio work outs due to L-5 problems , which may have contributed to the noticability of symptoms

>>>Also, I don't like to take drugs.

Me either. That would cause a whole new set of problems that would , for me, be more damaging than POIS


>>>> I may swim every other day instead of everyday and walk on the non swim days.

I swim every other day and do abs/freeweights and yoga on off days. It's not as much of a tonic as running, but it helps.

>>>>When you mention that one out of ten times you are okay, I think this may be a natural consequence of a more well rested nervous system and thus less triggering of stress hormones.

That seems reasonable

[SteveD]

Underwater,

This is intriguing.

>>>>but I have unfortunately triggered POIS symptoms mistakenly by nocturnal, dream state confusion without orgasm.

I too, have triggered the POIS symptoms in nocturnal states, but only accompanied with orgasm. The most baffling thing though is that I have had three nocturnal emissions, recently, after no orgasm for 19 months, and I had absolutely no symptoms and felt what you would expect a normal man to feel upon being orgasmic. Happy, clean, light, quick stepped.
 
>>>>This whole thing is a complex, mind boggling bummer.

Ain't that the truth!
 
Steve D.


A happy healthy holiday to all...

[demografx]

Happy holidays to ALL pois sufferers!

Excellent wish, Martin! And I hope they all find relief one day!

[underwater]

Steve---
That's fabulous that your last 3 NE's have been POIS free. What do you think are the reasons? This is very interesting. Were there accompanying dreams or were you in deep sleep and unaware of anything? I hope this leads to a possible theories. I'm also very interested in your L-5 issues. My "current onslaught" of POIS and Anxiety began about 1 1/2 years ago with Lumbar Problems betweeen S-1 and L-5. This seemed to join up with my Anxiety and POIS to make this a horrible 1 1/2 years. When I'm not in POIS and generally without Anxiety, my Lower Back issues almost disappear. I'm still stiff, but a whole lot more pain free. In fact, I've noticed that when my back is all of a sudden feeling real good, any POIS or Anxiety I have also nearly disappears.
It's as if my brain, spinal cord and pelvic floor muscles are one connected system.
WEIRD

[demografx]

MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

Counterpoints asked which blood tests were ordered after my POIS evaluation appointment, so they are listed below. I just now got the list, and was dismayed that CORTISOL was not listed. So I asked the endocrinologist if it could yet be included with today's creatinine blood test (kidney function). Creatinine test is required for pre-MRI injection so MRI results can be shown "with and without contrast".

Out of reference range
-PROLACTIN

Extremely high (reason for MRI of the pituitary gland this week)

-TESTOSTERONE(Bioavailable Testosterone, Free Testosterone, Total Testosterone, Sex Hormone Globulin Binding)

"Free T" is low; others I don't have reference range on summary.

In reference range
-DHEA-SULFATE

-FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone)

-LH (Luteinizing Hormone)

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

Well, let's see where this goes. I'm happy that this doctor is taking POIS seriously. This is what he decided after listening to my discussion about this forum, seeing Dr Waldinger's paper, and asking detailed questions about my medical history.

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

[underwater]

Double Thanks Demografx:
For Your Holiday Wishes
and
for sharing your lab test processes--
I hope your efforts lead to some insight into hormone reactions with respect to POIS, and whether there is a sequence of biochemical events that may shed light on how our symptoms manifest themselves. Also, I assume that some of us may just have a genetic predispositon to this  "illness". But this certainly does not preclude finding ways to diminish or "cure" this ailment. Thank your for this Forum. It is very therapeutic in itself.

[demografx]

Double Thanks Demografx:
For Your Holiday Wishes
and
for sharing your lab test processes--
I hope your efforts lead to some insight into hormone reactions with respect to POIS, and whether there is a sequence of biochemical events that may shed light on how our symptoms manifest themselves. Also, I assume that some of us may just have a genetic predispositon to this  "illness". But this certainly does not preclude finding ways to diminish or "cure" this ailment. Thank your for this Forum. It is very therapeutic in itself.

Underwater, thanks for the double wishes!

Interesting that you bring up genetics. Embarrassingly, I told my two grown sons about my POIS (I felt I had to in case they had it) - and, "nope, no POIS here". Embarrassed? What can I say? I'm probably not the most enlightened guy on the planet. []

Underwater, I'm so raging mad at having this stupid syndrome that I want us all to have a 110% (!) cure in 2009! 30+ years of this agony. Sheesh.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about this forum being therapeutic. Part of the agony before was finding ANYONE that understands!!!

Thanks for being here.

[underwater]

Demografx, I too have a grown son and was thinking about asking him if he has any POIS issues. He can be moody, and has a lot of my idiosyncrasies i.e. mood changes.
It does seem a bit awkward. But I'll figure out a way. I've told my M.D. but not my psychiatrist (in full detail). This forum is better than both. My wife fully understands, but doesn't make a big deal about it. What I hate about POIS is how it is very close to a panic attack that morphs into a 3-4 day lingering illness. However, the panic part may not show up for a few hours or even longer. I think Counterpoint mentioned that he gets it only 70% of the time. That is very, very interesting.

[girlwind]

MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

Did you get the Free T3 and free T4? And what were the results on those.
Also what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

[demografx]

I think Counterpoint mentioned that he gets it only 70% of the time. That is very, very interesting.

You can't believe Counterpoints, he's a biophysicist! []

[demografx]

MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

Did you get the Free T3 and free T4? And what were the results on those.
Also what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Nope. He said T3 and T4 are controversial. Like I said, I didn't push it...and as I mentioned I don't have ALL "in range refs".

For now, I will just trust him.

Let's see what he can do. That's my bottom line. If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it.
If it works, I'll follow him anywhere[]

The big deal now is his recommended brain scan this Friday! MORE than enough for me. For now.

[demografx]

Demografx, I too have a grown son and was thinking about asking him if he has any POIS issues...It does seem a bit awkward. But I'll figure out a way.

Nice to know others struggle with the same issue!

[demografx]

...what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Girlwind, I found it. My TSH is 3.1, the ref range is 0.3 - 4.7 mcIU/mL.

[demografx]

2002 POIS Research Study

The first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If anyone wants a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "demografx".

[martin88]

I think Counterpoint mentioned that he gets it only 70% of the time. That is very, very interesting.

Hi Underwater,
I have this too but it's going like this:
Sometimes (rarely) I think I don't have pois, but it's there for sure! As soon as I'm confronted to hard exercise or problems, people, where the nervous system is involved, the slightest thing can quickly make the pois very obvious.
Congratulations for your marathons! If you wish to share tips on nutrition do not hesitate. []

[demografx]

Sometimes (rarely) I think I don't have pois, but it's there for sure! As soon as I'm confronted to hard exercise or problems, people, where the nervous system is involved, the slightest thing can quickly make the pois very obvious.

Maybe that's why my Levitra cure isn't doing as well lately. More stress. And that's where POIS "serenity" is tested. Interesting, Martin.

[SteveD]

>>>>That's fabulous that your last 3 NE's have been POIS free. What do you think are the reasons? This is very interesting. Were there accompanying dreams or were you in deep sleep and unaware of anything?

I was dreaming about my partner, who I was not seeing at the time (As you might suspect this disease is very relationship destructive). When I did see her again, 40 days later, she was overjoyed that I had had POIS free orgasms (her hope , of course , was that if that were true then there may be possibilities for POIS free orgasmic coupleship sexuality.)

>>>I hope this leads to a possible theories.

The best I can postulate at this point is that the neurochemistry of intentionality is not in play here, but that is a guess. Previous NE's, prior to these three, have yielded POIS symptoms but the symptoms were considerably muted, which would lend credence to the intentionality theory, but still not explain it fully.



>>>>I'm also very interested in your L-5 issues. My "current onslaught" of POIS and Anxiety began about 1 1/2 years ago with Lumbar Problems betweeen S-1 and L-5.

My current onslaught came on 1 1/2 years ago, too. I was experimenting with raw organic veganism with emphasis on extremely large quantities of living foods. It worked remarkably well in the sense that my sexual desire was eliminated( just as Gandhi's work states that it will) However I discovered through blood work 10 days ago that I have become iron, Vitamin D and b-12 deficient . This has been doubly vexing in that the weakness associated with anemia can be confused with POIS symptoms.
For 11 months I was plagued with anemia, but the POIS symptoms were completely gone. When I began to see my partner again 8 months ago, and engage in non-orgasmic sexuality, the 'onslaught' commenced. Through thoughtful negotiation, very careful sexual boundaries and the willingness of my partner I have avoided the full torrential consequences of POIS....Whew!


>>>>This seemed to join up with my Anxiety and POIS to make this a horrible 1 1/2 years. When I'm not in POIS and generally without Anxiety, my Lower Back issues almost disappear. I'm still stiff, but a whole lot more pain free. In fact, I've noticed that when my back is all of a sudden feeling real good, any POIS or Anxiety I have also nearly disappears.
It's as if my brain, spinal cord and pelvic floor muscles are one connected system.


You know, I've never observed that , but I will pay attention to that in the future.