[CertainlyPOIS]

ON tyrosine.  I tried once to eat lots of proteins especially chicken. I saw improvement but only in talking, i talked alot more but memory and cognitive skills were still lacking.

So you are taking tyrosine at the moment you mean, right? I have also ordered free form L-tyrosine of Source Naturals, a while back, but until now I have only tried to take a few tablets a few times and haven't tried it anymore yet. I believe it should at least be taken for a few days in a row and in sufficient dosages for it to be effective. It might help me, since it's known to be a precursor to dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline and thyroid hormones and tests showed deficiencies of noradrenaline, adrenaline and T3. I'm curious to know if it helps you.

I did not use tyrosine pills, i just ate alot of chicken and meat, it help at first but stoped being effective. and it only helped with talking.

[girlwind]

I did not intend to make my success in curing POIS come across easy since
It definetly was not easy.

I was the impatient type and wanted to be cured quickly
and often tried to do too much all at once.

I found out from good and bad experiences and from mistakes,
it is best to fully research and understand what is going on in your
body before even supplementing, especially if it is hormones.

Use the results from your own
data and research scientific studies and ask others who have
had the same problems and have improved their health.

Keep monitoring your levels and adjust accordlingly and also go by
symptoms as well.

The more tests you can get done the quicker you can find out what
is wrong and the quicker you can be treated which will enable
you to feel better sooner than later.

Your welcome Girlwind I am just going from my experience.

Michael

Thank you so much Michael, for your very intimate detailed account of your healing process. I am personally
very grateful for your time and generosity with the wealth of information you have presented. Because I am
just a newbie with the hormone balancing thing, I appreciate the accounts of one who is a "veteran" in this process.
I have lived with CFS and POIS for 30 years, (the CFS being at least a hundred times more devastating to my life and
functioning than POIS), so I can totally empathize with how hard it was for you during your collapse. But now
feel very hopeful knowing that there is something CONCRETE that I can do to change my body and energy for the
better. I also understand that it will not be an easy ride, but I'm much better prepared for it, due in part to all the
information that you have provided me with. 

[girlwind]

Girlwind: Life Entension has sublingual DHEA 25mg. LEF.org or Life Extension.com.  They also have some blood testing.  

Thank you! I will certainly check that out.

[girlwind]

I have checked it and the supplement that I've gotten prescribed isn't glutathione, but L-glutamine, which is a precursor to glutathione.

HEY DELOUN--

According to what I have read, N-A-C (n-acetyl cysteine) is a precursor to glutathione, which is A KEY COMPONENT in
liver detoxification. It has worked WONDERS for me in helping remove some of the heavy metals in my body--arsenic and
uranium in particular.  I also took PCA-Rx for heavy metal detox., which has been very helpful as well.

Whereas L-glutamine, as I've used it, has had anti-inflammatory properties, particularly for the gut. I used to have
problems with leaky gut syndrome, due to candida issues, and L-glutamine was awesome in helping resolve that. I had to take
it religiously every morning and evening on an empty stomach (very important, or it will be digested as protein) for 6 months
to completely heal the leaky gut. I still take it now when I have gut aggravations. For me, it has been a very helpful and easy
supplement to take.

[underwater]

Michael-
Re: Blood Brain Barrier Permeability, Oxygen and Age

I was wondering if you can tell me how long it took you to solve POIS, from your initial, devastating experiences until your successful conclusion recently? Also, I assume you were in great shape physically (boxing/training etc) when POIS started? But did you continue to exercise vigorously during your recovery period? What was your routine? Can you also tell me your age?

I'm asking these questions because I'm interested in how medications, supplements etc. affect different people differently if, for their efficacy, they need to pass the BBB. One of my theories is that if a person has good circulation and plenty of blood OXYGEN (the universal detoxifier), they may respond differently to medications.
Perhaps faster with a stronger impact? I don't know. This may (theoretically) be a result of our brains with billions of cells continually cleaning cellular waste and toxins; removing them. A young person in great shape with plenty of circulating oxygen may very well have an easier time with the BBB permeability issues. This may explain how your intake of GABA and 5HTP so "easily" found their receptors. Thus, my theory suggests that doses of different supplements (such as amino acids) may be totally different for different people or may never work at all.

For me, whatever I take goes right to my brain. For example, I just took 100 mg. of L Theanine the other day and it went right to my brain---the same power as a psychotropic. You obviously are strong and respond quickly to meds, and you can change things up quickly. I also am a life long athlete in very good shape, but I'm 60 yrs. old and I'm losing strength and power and endurance. This is a bummer. Right now for me, I have concluded that I will continue my experiments with supplements at MUCH lower doses (due to age). For me, I think this issue of Oxygen, Circulation and BBB is significant. I don't ever want to return to any modern, psychiatric medications. My psychiatrist was quite puzzled last year how taking 1 mg. of Valium a day worked so fast and effectively for 3 months, since it is NEVER given in such low doses, not even to babies). I assume it was ushered in right past all barriers.

Thanks Michael, your answer will help me in my experiments with swimming, breathing, posture, and how to take my supplements.

[demografx]

I everyone i went to urologist to get test, he could only check for prolactin and testosterone  but the good news is, when he saw the waldingers paper and ny times article and micheal's story  there is no way he could tell me it is psychological.

Great feedback, CC! Those papers have given us a major credibility breakthrough.

[demografx]

Michael,

We've been in communication privately, and wanted to thank you publicly for all your detailed info.

[girlwind]

I thought cortisol is a stress hormone. But it's not so easy : cortisol can be seen as anti-stress hormone too.
Some studies show supplementations of glucocorticoids help people with phobias :
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=16967
The depletion of cortisol is the real state of stress.

http://www.cuvillier.de/flycms/de/html/30/-UickI3zKPSj3cUk=/Buchdetails.html

Cortisone treatment significantly reduced anxiety levels by 37% in patients suffering from social phobia, as compared to placebo treatment and further significantly decreased heart rate reactivity.

Thank you B_Jim for this clarification. I had questions about cortisol along these same lines. According to my understanding,
I also thought cortisol was a "stress hormone" and that it increased when one was "stressing out."

I just began taking hydrocortisone this week--as a naturally compounded prescription. I can verify that it does NOT give me
a stress reaction when I take it. In fact, the first time I took it, I noticed (half an hour later) that it was slowing me down and
making me feel more relaxed, almost sluggish.

I've heard from several people now, including Michael, and my naturopath, and my doctor as well, that it's important to get
one's adrenals in an optimal state, BEFORE TAKING ANY THYROID MEDS. Otherwise, if one's adrenals are weak, (as is cortisol
deficient), then one can be inclined to get anxiety attacks and heart palpitations from increasing the thyroid. This is more
indication of how all the hormones work together,  and how tricky it can be to get them in a balance with each other.

Here's an article that tells more about cortisol's functions and health benefits.

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/hormones/cortisol.php

[deloun]

I have checked it and the supplement that I've gotten prescribed isn't glutathione, but L-glutamine, which is a precursor to glutathione.

HEY DELOUN--

According to what I have read, N-A-C (n-acetyl cysteine) is a precursor to glutathione, which is A KEY COMPONENT in
liver detoxification. It has worked WONDERS for me in helping remove some of the heavy metals in my body--arsenic and
uranium in particular.  I also took PCA-Rx for heavy metal detox., which has been very helpful as well.

Whereas L-glutamine, as I've used it, has had anti-inflammatory properties, particularly for the gut. I used to have
problems with leaky gut syndrome, due to candida issues, and L-glutamine was awesome in helping resolve that. I had to take
it religiously every morning and evening on an empty stomach (very important, or it will be digested as protein) for 6 months
to completely heal the leaky gut. I still take it now when I have gut aggravations. For me, it has been a very helpful and easy
supplement to take.

Hey Girlwind,

OK, I have gotten prescribed an orthomolecular medicine for liver detoxification called Ultra Clear Plus and I've looked at the ingredients and it indeed contains n-acetyl cysteine.

I believe that I've gotten L-glutamine prescribed because of a deficiency of methione, glutathione, poor methylation and to support detoxification.

I haven't taken either of them yet, although I do have them here, by the way.

[girlwind]

Hey Girlwind,

OK, I have gotten prescribed an orthomolecular medicine for liver detoxification called Ultra Clear Plus and I've looked at the ingredients and it indeed contains n-acetyl cysteine.

I believe that I've gotten L-glutamine prescribed because of a deficiency of methione, glutathione, poor methylation and to support detoxification.

I haven't taken either of them yet, although I do have them here, by the way.

Back to you, Deloun--

Ultra-Clear...that sounded familiar. I remember taking it years ago for detoxification and nutritional supplementation.
One side effect for me was ULTRA- diarrhea. I'm not saying that you'll have that, but I sure did!

I read more on L-glutamine and found out that it's used commonly by body builders and by those with IBS (irritable
bowel syndrome). Check it out.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/supplements-reviews/glutamine-side-effects-benefits.htm
http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/l-glutamine.htm

[martin88]

[...]
To remove your mercury, not all dentists have the right equipment to do this. (Maybe you know this already..)  Take someone who is qualified and who have the required material (expensive). Otherwise you can do more harm than good. 

Thank you for reminding me for this, I have also received your PM about it.
I have thought about making an appointment with a dentist that is specialized in removing mercury amalgam fillings, but in the end I have chosen to make the appointment with my own dentist, for the beginning of march. But I have asked him to take extra precautions to limit the risks involved regarding the mercury. I have asked him to make use of the Scania Dental Clean Up (1), which is some kind of vacuum cleaning device that should be placed around the tooth, and a rubber dam (cofferdam). I have also asked him to clean any residues of amalgam, that are left over after the fillings have been removed. I hope that this is enough, what do you think, do you have any other suggestions?

(1) http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/AMALGAM/NL/cleanup.htm

Deloun,
I suggest that you write to the website I gave you PM to ask what's the difference with other dentists (procedures & equipment). You can also read this protocol about how to remove mercury :
http://www.iaomt.org/articles/files/files288/Safe%20Removal%20of%20Amalgam%20Fillings.pdf
It seems that a tool to breathe clean air would have been an additional protection.
Also doing small job at one time, put a lot of water and succion, and taking some supplements may help. Hope you'll pass through this easily.

[demografx]

TESTOSTERONE

In my 2nd week of T-patches, continuing to feel better.

I passed on specific concerns/comments from 2 others here (thanks, guys!) to my endocrinologist, who will discuss them with me in our March appt., and meanwhile, he replied about comments/concerns: "not to worry" (and i won't...that is, unless my derriere falls off [])

Unless I see overwhelming evidence (numbers, studies, etc.) to the contrary, I will play out my current strategy - primarily with physician MD's, till it succeeds or fails. And, of course, modifications along the way - possibly including supplements.

I wish everyone the utmost success, regardless of their strategy. Keep in mind, no one has yet written a book, "The Cure For POIS". We're all different.

[acronym]

Re: Michael and hormone rebalancing.
Michael you have made some great posts. Well done Michael on your perseverance. You are lucky to have an understanding and cluey doctor. From the sounds of it you doctor shopped. Was the guy you ended up with an endo? From your outcome, it would seem that POIS is not caused by just one defective bio-chemical but by a number of defective hormones/neurotransmitters/enzymes, which is why it is proving elusive in mapping it to just one compound and why symptoms differ across the forum members as they would differing results to varying degrees or even other bio irregularities.

I can relate to some but not all of your results:
Low Total Test + abnormal low free test
Normal Cortisol (but strongly suspect it was high yrs ago)
Abnormal Low DHEA
Normal T3 + T4. My request for Free T3 and T4 was dismissed
Normal Prolactin
Estriol+Estrone - Never tested.
Low DHT
No neurotransmitter tests performed.
Abnormal low IGF/GH

My experience in dealing with these outcomes above are as follows:
Testosterone - As a couple of others have commented here - I do not think testosterone is the answer to POIS. It may however be a piece of the jigsaw.
Finally after a number of years of complaining I found a doc who tested for Free Test. Kudos to him, however the way he went about treating it was not ideal. I was given sustanon250 injections, but only 1 a month. He said because I was not old and the hysteria over steroids he could give me too much test. Trouble was with this high dose infrequent regime - I was on a hormonal roller coaster. The high dose by day 7 would signal the hypothalamus to reduce my own production, so by day 30 I was stuffed and desperate for another shot.
Testosterone helped in a couple of ways but I was also disappointed in other aspects. It was better than any anti-depressant, my memory improved, my endurance improved, my strength improved, my body tone improved. It did not however improve my poor appetite, nor did I put on any weight. No improvement in motivation or competivness or confidence or libido. In fact my libido was screwed and confidence levels were worse which baffled me. I decided to increase dose to 2 x 250/mth. I noticed no difference apart from some increase in aggression + oily skin, which again surprised me.
I then gave testosterone cream a try. I was disappointed with this. Less of the positives and more hair loss. I am now on sus100 inj 3 a month. You'd be extremely lucky to find a doctor to prescribe you HCG (which kick starts your gonads). Disappointingly I also find Horny Goat Weed and Tribulus don't do anything for me either whereas yrs ago I got an effect from Tribulus. (Q for Michael - You found a doc who prescribed you HCG? Its not cheap either)

DHEA - I tried dhea I think it was 50mg caps x 1 a day. I did not notice any improvement in health but only took for a short while as I was loosing hair badly on this. I have since tried with 10mg/day and don't notice much health wise. This was disappointing as dhea is a master hormone involved in a number of biochemical pathways that I wondered if it was a key to pois.

IGF/GH - Have been prescribed a few drugs that had side effect of supposidly boosting GH. For instance muscle relaxant Baclofen. While it improved my sleep and my health to small degree, I continue to have very low readings. Because I have a couple of low but just normal readings in the past few yrs the endo thinks that’s good enough for him.

Thyroid - While my TSH + T3 + T4 results came back as normal, I have noticed that I have more energy when I have taken a tonic that contained iodine + selenium. Over this time I have also had a lessening in pois symptoms but it has not been a direct correlation to taking this tonic + I have taken a number of other treatments specifically to deal with my CFS. If you are wondering about your thyroid and yr doc wont give you a blood test for anything beyond TSH, you could try seaweed extract as girlwind recommended and also a selenium extract (Brazil nuts are high in selenium). If you are hyperthyroid this is going to possibly exacerbate your condition.

I have wondered about my Estriol levels but didn't push for a test because I did not exhibit any signs of gynecomastia. I assumed my disappointment with testosterone inj. was because I had high SHBG levels, and that the extra test I was taking was largely getting bound to by SHBG. 

Adrenals - I have no doubt I had adrenal burn out years ago. One of the things that helped me get back to work with CFS was mega dose vitamin C injections. This past couple of yrs one of the herbs I have taken that I have rated highly is liquorice (or Glycyrrhizin) which nourishes the adrenal glands. I also have minimal sugars in my diet and take Mg + High dose Vit-B supps daily. I've never had an ACTH stimulation test. I recorded high ACTH levels in the past when I was taking the anti-viral herb sutherlandia and I did have more energy when on this.

Neurotransmittors -
Serotonin - I have been prescribed a number of ADs over the years, to treat mild depression associated with having CFS year after year. I have never felt better on any of them, in fact I felt worse. Some studies have shown that a significant % of CFS patients have in fact high serotonin levels, and I suspect this might be me. From my perspective low serotonin does not explain pois.

Gaba - I am not sure on this. One of the best episodes of good health I have had was when I took Gabapetin. This is a drug used by epileptics and is being used off list in a number of other conditions. I felt awesome both mentally and physically on this drug, no pois/CFS whatsoever...however the effect wore off after 12 days. Increasing the dose did not work. Going off and on it only made it work for a day. I then tried valpoic acid which is supposed to increase gaba. It did not work for me. I then tried Lyrica which is the new and improved version of Gabapentin..again no luck, just works like a sedative. I tried gaba powder (sublingually), but this only had very weak effect. It does not cross the blood brain barrier, otherwise if it did it would be a controlled substance.

Noradrenalin - Not sure on this. I was given a drug that was supposed to help boost levels of this NT, which I felt more alert on but the effect wore off after a week. Increasing the dose did not make much difference. I am wary of ramping up ADs to high levels and staying on them continually. For me it does not account for pois.

Acetylcholine - My doc thought I could well be deficient here. I was prescribed Pyridostigmine which is supposed to help boost levels. I noticed some improvement in mental wellbeing but nothing dramatic and no real effect on pois. I tried phospatidylserine yrs ago and found it helped a lot with brain fog but it is hard to get where I live and very expensive.

Vasopressin - never tested.

Dopamine - I have suspected this might be a problem for me. I have never been given any med that acted on this NT because the doctors were wary given I have high stress + anxiousness levels, plus they only seem comfortable dealing with SSRIs + trycyclics. A number of yrs ago I took an Indian herb called Kaunch. This contains L-dopa and is used in Ayurvedic medicine similar to ginseng. Unfortunately it proved a disappointment. I felt a bit better on the amino acid Tyrosine (building block for dopamine + noradrenalin) however, though it was no pois killer.

[girlwind]

\

Re: Michael and hormone rebalancing.
You are lucky to have an understanding and cluey doctor. From the sounds of it you doctor shopped. Was the guy you ended up with an endo? From your outcome, it would seem
that POIS is not caused by just one defective bio-chemical but by a number of defective hormones/neurotransmitters/enzymes, which is why it is proving elusive in mapping it to
just one compound and why symptoms differ across the forum members as they would differing results to varying degrees or even other bio irregularities.

Thanks Acronym, for your long informative post. I'm just a beginner with the hormone balancing process, so I still
have much to learn about its intricacies and complexities. But I agree that finding a good doctor or even a naturopath who
is HIGHLY SKILLED in the field, and knows how to order the RIGHT tests, interpret them according to OPTIMAL levels, and
then treat the diverse hormonal imbalances in a way that actually works for their patient, is the key. UN-fortunately this is
a daunting, if not nearly impossible, task. It's a BIG PLUS to be very well self educated on the topic, and this forum has
certainly encouraged that! 

I just began my hydrocortisone at a tiny dose, and am going to increase it incrementally over the next few weeks, before I
begin the thyroid hormone. I'm not taking any other hormones until I have some experience with the adrenals and thyroid,
and hopefully some success in terms of symptom relief.  I think when you have a lot of deficiencies, like me, like you, and
probably like others who have POIS, it will take longer to get on top of all of them and manage them in a workable way. I
am reminding myself that patience and perseverance will come in handy.  [8D]  [8D]  [8D]

[underwater]

Hi Girlwind--
I couldn't agree with you more: Patience and Perseverence

I've been experimenting with my GAD/POIS "symptoms" for the last week or so with basicallly just three amino acids and a few other adrenal support supplements.
At times, I'll get real good feedback and feel better (way better) for a longer period of time than I've felt in 20 months. Then, I'll get a "dip" and try to remind myself to "just go through it" without any added, internal psychological drama. I have to force myself to be patient (like you said) in order to distance myself from, and fully measure, the "down episode". This is so I don't make a hasty assumption that I need to "tinker" (soon or in the next hours etc). I may not need to "tinker".
I ask myself this question in the fine tuning challenge: To what extent am I naturally adjusting to the changes as I go in the right direction, or will I be required to make a decision to alter the ingredients? It makes you a bit neurotic.

 

[demografx]

[Michael's] POIS is not caused by just one defective bio-chemical but by a number of defective hormones/neurotransmitters/enzymes, which is why it is proving elusive in mapping it to just one compound

An old friend, a biophysics PhD-Harvard lecturer who was a pioneer in HIV/AIDS cure, thinks bromocriptine might be an answer for high prolactin POIS. I'm not willing to try it, it's not a benign agent.

I agree that testosterone is only a piece of the puzzle. But my combination last year of testosterone and Levitra came awfully close to a cure (75%+) on many repeated trials.

Eventually, I think we'll have to choose between a shotgun and a rifle approach.

[demografx]

To what extent am I naturally adjusting to the changes as I go in the right direction, or will I be required to make a decision to alter the ingredients? It makes you a bit neurotic.

Underwater, that seems to explain some of my experience with Levitra and testosterone.

[Jiddu5]

Hello. I have suffered from mild symptoms of POIS, just really symptoms of malaise, a general feeling of weakness, nervousness and irritability for a day or two or sometimes a few days after ejaculation. I tried many ways to sort it out, diet, vitamins etc., which may have helped (havent really tried eating junk food all the time and not taking vitamins to see what happens!)  but I think the real factor in my recovery has been the Buteyko breathing method. It would take a while for me to describe it, and its best known for treating asthma, but here is a link which will describe it in detail for me:

http://www.buteyko.ie/correctbreathing.php#2

Its a page by an Irish guy, whose book 'Close Your Mouth' was what introduced me to the method. You can get the book on the page, I highly recommend it. The article sounds very techincal, but in fact you don't really have to understand the mechanics of it too much.
I just do the exercise 'steps', a breath holding from the book (actually its presented as an exercise specifically for children but I emailed Patrick McKeown, the author, for advice and he recommended to do it 20 - 30 times daily, morning afternoon and evening) - it will be very difficult at first, but it takes perserverance!

I really don't know if this will work for everone or not, like I said I only had mild symptoms, which were not present consistently, and I suspect they may have been brought on by psychological/emotional issues which came first...

Nonetheless, I though it would be worth it to share it anyway, and I am positive that even if this is not the panacea, it will undoubtedly raise the standard of your health if you practise it regularly. It certainly has done for me.

[Jiddu5]

Hello again. It occured to me that perhaps I wasn't clear enough about the Buteyko method in my post. As well as doing exercises, it involves becoming much more aware of one's breathing habits throughout the day, and reducing the volume of one's breathing (as the article will outline - read right from the top of the page, I know its long but its worth it) and takes quite a while to get the hang of. Also, I forgot to mention that Patrick McKeown recommended doing the 'steps' exercise if you are young and relatively healthy. There is an exercise called 'reduced breathing' that is usually recommended for adults - it might be a better idea to try it first depending on the circumstances, if you are interested enough that is. In fact, there are DVD's by various experts on the method available online also, which could be found with google. Anyway, if you are interested, I recommend you either get a book (I think 'Close Your Mouth' is the most popular one) or a DVD which outlines it in detail. Hope this helps.

[girlwind]

Hello Jiddu. I would be willing to try a breathing exercise if it was simple and easy. But this is too complicated for me
right now. Thanks for your posts about it, but I think I'll pass.