[Ambient123]

Demografx

Congratulations on your POIS success. We can all look to you for inspiration in the face of POIS. I intend to make an appointment with a doctor and suggest an Endocrinologist appointment to see if any hormones are out of balance as it were.

While the Tyrosine has somewhat improved my symptoms, i still feel that Fatigue and brain haze into Day 2 and part of 3. Do you think it could it be possible that my Testosterone levels are somewhat below normal? Just a thought, because i notice that POIS reduces my ability to interact physically. For example, i work in a kitchen part time, and POIS affects my efficiency in the job, eg i will be slower and less energetic when preparing dishes.

What do you think personally? As a POIS sufferer whose symptoms seemed to originate largely from Testosterone, you will understand this more than i do.

Thanks

Ambient

[Counterpoints]

I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary?  Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.

I found the following and, hope you don't mind, I PM'd pyro to see if he can add anything to this:

I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....

Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.   

Thanks Demo. And congratulations!

[Counterpoints]

Underwater,

Advil only acts as anti-inflammatory for certain things.  You could try a drug like prednisone, just as a test.  It's not something you'd want to get in a habit of taking.....  but if you found out that a small dose every couple weeks, just before orgasm, cured your POIS, it's probably worth it!

[pyropeach]

I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary?  Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.

I found the following and, hope you don't mind, I PM'd pyro to see if he can add anything to this:

I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....

Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.   

I got the PM and I'm afraid there isn't much more I can say about the growth on my pituitary than what I've already said. 

I've just started using phosphatidyl serine and it seems to be working so far...better than Relora.  The symptoms are down to around 10% now.  But I've just started using it, and will see how long it'll last.

Demo - That's freakin awesome, congratulations!!  On my next visit to my doctor, which is next week, I will definitely try to get another test for testosterone. 

[demografx]

Demo - That's freakin awesome, congratulations!!  On my next visit to my doctor, which is next week, I will definitely try to get another test for testosterone. 

Thanks, Pyro! Get as many breakdowns as you can, e.g., free T, bioavailable T, FSH, LH, SHGB.

Congrats on  your trials and reportage of Relora and PS!

[demografx]

Ambient, only a blood test of your testosterone levels, preferably done by an endocrinologist, can determine your status. At the same time, you might as well check your other key hormones. There have been many posts here with discussions of what to test.

[martin88]

Web site update :
For a lot of reasons I decided I won't do the web site with Aaron. I think he will. Maybe he'll explain what he wants to do in details. Even if I had already done the work on the links it was not the biggest part.

For the poll I wanted to do I'll make it myself separately if I see you'll use it. I don't want to work for nothing .  Maybe some of you can PM me so I'll know if you'll answer the questions in the poll (you'll only have to choose between different answers, and you'll be able to enter your own question/answers). What I have already done was useful to see the amount of work needed. Thanks to all who will give their input!

[martin88]

3 months ago I had an appointment for yesterday with a new doctor. I went there and I said I'm only here to have these tests and I gave my list. It was a 45-50 y old woman, she told me "no problem I'll give you all" !
I have a blood and a urine test for cortisol but I realize now it's not written 24h.., does anyone know if a urine test is always 24h ? otherwise I must go back. Then she started to investigate my case and concluded it's psychological, it's a depression . I had a NE two days ago and she saw me morally down. I said her I won't be like that in two weeks and she talked about bipolar disorder. I gave her the paper from Dr Waldinger and she started to read the begining and put it under other papers saying "I'm late I don't have time, I'll read it later" In fact I didn't really want to give her this paper  I wanted the tests only and I have them. So I think when you see a doctor, the first thing you say is very important.

[CertainlyPOIS]

3 months ago I had an appointment for yesterday with a new doctor. I went there and I said I'm only here to have these tests and I gave my list. It was a 45-50 y old woman, she told me "no problem I'll give you all" !
I have a blood and a urine test for cortisol but I realize now it's not written 24h.., does anyone know if a urine test is always 24h ? otherwise I must go back. Then she started to investigate my case and concluded it's psychological, it's a depression . I had a NE two days ago and she saw me morally down. I said her I won't be like that in two weeks and she talked about bipolar disorder. I gave her the paper from Dr Waldinger and she started to read the begining and put it under other papers saying "I'm late I don't have time, I'll read it later" In fact I didn't really want to give her this paper  I wanted the tests only and I have them. So I think when you see a doctor, the first thing you say is very important.

That is very true.  Am thinking when i eventually get to see doctor, i am not going to mention pois, i will just mention the symptoms and see how the doctor reacts and what he or she says.  Whenever the orgasm is mentioned it seems as if that is when they want to start talking about that  uncle that gave you one to many gifts

[CertainlyPOIS]

First i want to show a "funny" study i found :
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090126082343.htm
http://www.livescience.com/health/090126-masturbation-prostate.html

I do no matter of this study but i only find this funny to see how one of famous argument used by anti-Pois people is seriously damaged now.  []
The reality is scientific knowledge about orgasm is at its begining .
So deying Pois is absolutely stupid.
---
Yesterday i had another orgasm (NE). Dispite I had few symptoms compared to my state 6 months ago(no sugar ) I realized how orgasm affects my immune system. I caught an intestinal flu so quickly and so easily... Of course I will never know I would have it without the 2 orgasms... So, I think it and I would like to give a chance to plants and why not Alpha20C. I don't know if it is available in my area.
It's not easy to find what is the starting point of Pois. Immune systeme is linked to hormones too (testo/cortisol <=> immune system for example). That's a complex mechanism...
Improve my immune system is my priority and sugar my favorite suspect.
---
Hi, Pyro. Thanks for PS report and congratulations. I add it to database.
Thanks to all solutions testers. You can send me updates by PM if you want.
This could be the advantage of creating a new website to have an easy tool to follow all  suferers diary.

These scientist are truly confused on the same science daily page there is article that sexual activity reduces the posibility of prostate cancer.

[Counterpoints]

INFLAMMATION:

I think inflammation could be a cause of POIS.  I notice the "burning" in my prostate area (possible sign of inflammation), plus the cortisol (which could be to combat inflammation).  When POIS was discussed on ISSM, they mentioned inflammation too. A very smart friend mentioned that I might want to test for c-reactive protein, while symptomatic.

Look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-reactive_protein

It seems like this would be a good test of the inflammation theory. "CRP is a member of the class of acute-phase reactants as its levels rise dramatically during inflammatory processes occurring in the body".

As far as a problem in the prostate causing POIS, we might want to test PSA (prostate specific antigen)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate_specific_antigen

[Counterpoints]

Very good Cp ! Ok for c-reactive protein. I have never heard of Psa. Do you think it could be the mysterious antigen we search as the starting point of the allergic chain ? If Pois is an immune response , what is the antigen ?  [].Do you think psa is released with orgasm ? If it is so "easy" why any doctor didn't think about it before.
I don't have specific pain in the prostate area. But Underwater and a lot of sufferers have it.

I'm not sure about the likelihood of us being allergic to PSA.  (Small probably).  (If we were though, this might also explain any burning sensation, or inflammation). I'm not sure why a physician hasn't mentioned this before (this or c-reactive protein). PSA probably hasn't been mentioned because it is usually used to test for prostate problems in men over 50 (or so I think).  And also because not many physicians have thought about this problem.  Different people will have different ideas.  The friend I mentioned is an extremely intelligent MD; I haven't said too much about POIS to him, but I mentioned some symptoms, and he told me about c-reactive protein and PSA.

It says right in wiki article about PSA that "both total and free PSA increase immediately after ejaculation, returning slowly to baseline levels within 24 hours".  Based on the info in the article, I can also see a possible explanation for why, occasionally, orgasm may alleviate symptoms.  "PSA is produced for the ejaculate where it liquifies the semen and allows sperm to swim freely.[1] It is also believed to be instrumental in dissolving the cervical mucous cap, allowing the entry of sperm".

Now, I don't know if PSA normally causes any symptoms.  If PSA is involved in our symptoms, there are four likely explanations I see:
1) It merely indicates there is some other prostate related problem that is causing symptoms
2) We are allergic to it somehow, or it sets off some reaction that causes problems for us
3) POIS PSA levels are extremely high after orgasm, and this somehow causes symptoms.
4) Not enough PSA is released?

"Extremely high" would not be ambiguous, since "a (1986) study that found 99% of 472 apparently healthy men had a total PSA level below 4 ng/mL—the upper limit of normal is much less than 4 ng/mL"

We could probably figure out how to test 2).

1) would be useful, at least, to know if prostate is involved in this problem.

3) might be suggested if our PSA levels are higher than even cancer patients.

In any case, for these two tests, CRA and PSA, it would be very important to take them while symptomatic.  Preferably not long after orgasm.
Also, CRA would be useful to test for inflammation, prostate or otherwise.

And PSA has a high false positive rate.  So unless PSA is REALLY elevated, it may be hard to tell anything. 

[demografx]

LEVITRA SUBSTITUTE FOR NON-E.D. POIS?

I've been thinking lately that, with the success of my treatment for POIS, it would be a shame if it only generalizes to a population that has ED (which Levitra targets).

I'm leaving out the testosterone discussion for now. That is not as age-sensitive, I think, as Levitra.

Let's think of what ingredients might be working in Levitra for a group of POIS sufferers, but stretching beyond the ED set. Nitric oxide? Then let's translate that into something that has a nitric oxide stimulant for people who don't need an ED treatment!

Horny Goat Weed, the Chinese herb, has been brought up as an example. I know, they should change the name.

I'm not suggesting that testosterone + Levitra is "the cure-all for POIS". But my guess is that it has universal application to a certain sub-set of POIS sufferers. A starting point I think would be the POIS sufferers who have some form of testosterone deficiency but don't need Levitra-for-ED.

Or maybe, under doctor's careful supervision, a very low dose of Levitra could be tried for those with testosterone deficiency but no ED?

Starting 7 years ago with testosterone injection only, and with more experiments over the last 2 years, one thing I have learned is that testosterone and Levitra won't make a 90%+ dent in my POIS independently; they work together for maximum effectiveness.

As B_Jim, Counterpoints et al point out, eventually we will have a number of different treatments for different symptom-groups and perhaps by demographics.

Any other thoughts on this, please? Thanks!

[demografx]

As far as a problem in the prostate causing POIS, we might want to test PSA (prostate specific antigen)

FWIW, my PSA has been routinely tested as normal over the years.

[demografx]

Whenever the orgasm is mentioned it seems as if that is when they want to start talking about that  uncle that gave you one too many gifts

 []

[Ambient123]

Demografx, once again i congratulate you on your POIS success.

So would you now say that you are 95-100% cured?

Was it the low testosterone that caused your POIS?

[Counterpoints]

AUTO-IMMUNE TEST

I was talking to the same physician friend who mentioned CRP and PSA.  I asked him whether he thought I could be allergic to PSA.  He seemed to think it was unlikely (but not impossible).  BUT, afterwards, he said that auto-immune disorders can have unusual symptom clusters like this, and mentioned that I could take an Anti-nuclear antibody (ANA) test.

This looks like an extremely promising test of the 'auto-immune' theory! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-nuclear_antibody

"Anti-nuclear antibodies (ANAs, also known as anti-nuclear factor or ANF) are antibodies directed against contents of the cell nucleus.[1]

They are present in higher than normal numbers in autoimmune disease. The ANA test measures the pattern and amount of autoantibody which can attack the body's tissues as if they were foreign material. Autoantibodies are present in low titers in the general population, but in about 5% of the population, their concentration is increased, and about half of this 5% have an autoimmune disease."

He also said I might consider an anti-DNA test. (After an ANA test).

So now it looks like we have 3-4 tests which could easily verify whether this is
- inflammation
- auto-immune
- prostate related

PS.  I was reading more about auto-immune diseases, and this caught my attention:
"Symptoms tend to appear during or shortly after puberty"

[Counterpoints]

As far as a problem in the prostate causing POIS, we might want to test PSA (prostate specific antigen)

FWIW, my PSA has been routinely tested as normal over the years.

Thanks for the info.  It might be worth getting a test while symptomatic, or post-orgasm.  But PSA levels themselves may or may not say anything -- it might be more how we are reacting to them.

[Counterpoints]

Thanks B_Jim.  It is always nice to read your thoughts.

[demografx]

Demografx, once again i congratulate you on your POIS success.

So would you now say that you are 95-100% cured?

Was it the low testosterone that caused your POIS?

Thanks again, Ambient! Yes, I'd say 90% - 97% cured! Hard to quantify: I basically have a few hours immediately after with very mild symptoms, then voila! Previously, I've taken up to 1-2 weeks to fully recover. (The norm was 4 days, but the discouragement would linger - after so many years of this).

I really don't know what caused the POIS. All I know is that now, 30+ years later, what does work for me today is a combination of testosterone + Levitra. Individually, they are not nearly as effective. Eventually, the "why" answers will come, but I'm not going to spoil the fun by agonizing too much. Please don't take that as negative, but there are just too many mysteries to solve - in my particular case, and with the "science" of orgasm, and also with the POIS malady in general. Best wishes again.