[hardasnails1973]

When looking at person one would have to assess the person from mental, emotional and phyiscal stand point. In most POIS people there have been subclinical hormonal imbalances which have been discovered numerous time.  Most Dr's  treat based upon numbers rather then symptoms that the problem with medicine today.  POIS cases that I have seen stem from emotional trama as well as also severe hormonal and neurological imbalance. First of all I could care about the TSH I look for the other levels and what things are binding it.  One needs to go after the cause vs the symptoms of things.  That is why as I posted one needs to look at all aspects of the person.  When one starts digging it will be surprise of what information is found.  I have dealt with sexual exhaustion from over masturbation, POIS, DNA mutations. Basically you name it I have come across it.  Its ashame that people abroad do not have the drs over there that understand hormone and neurological interactions with the immune system. 

Martin,
If one thinks tsh of 4.4 is hyperthyroid then people really need to be educated properly.  The lower the TSH the faster the thyroid. When there is a neurological compenent involved TSH is a worthless reading.  When ferritin levels goes below 130-150 then one cellular energy is decreased.  How I came up with this number I took people that were hormonally balanced vs people that where ill then compared them.  People that were ill had ferritin <100
People that where health averaged 135-200. That was just a general observsation.  With any disorder nutrition, lifestyle, and proper sleep hygiene, stress management, hormonal balance is essential for recovery. 

TSH can be tricky
CAse example
Male 25
TSH 5.5
ft3 3.9 (2.5-4.2)
ft4 1.7 (.8-1.
Total t-3 110 (97-210)
total t-4 7 (4-12)
Cortisol am 10.5 (4-20)
OMG hes hyperthyroid !!  WRONG!!

Dr's have not clue what to do

Problem solved
Adrenal cortisol profile showed low cortisol levels
adminster cortef at 20 mgs a day

Retest in 6 weeks
tsh 2.1
total t-3 same
total t-4 same
ft4 .1 (.8-1.
ft3 2.4 (2.3- 4.2)

WOW his thyroid levels dropped to reveal potential hypothyroidism
Now adminstering armour thyroid at 1/2 grain increments every 3 weeks retesting in 6 weeks. TSH is now suppressed (worthless testing from now on)  total t-3 and t-4 going , ft3 , ft4 increasing. Hypothyroid symptoms are resolving (fatigue, hairloss, fatuge, PE, muscle loose) 2 month later person is 80% better, but dr's did not know what to do.

[demografx]

In most POIS people there have been subclinical hormonal imbalances which have been discovered numerous time...POIS cases that I have seen stem from emotional trama as well as also severe hormonal and neurological imbalance...I have dealt with sexual exhaustion from...POIS...

You have been asked twice, this is now 3X, to explain your specific POIS patient experience and studies.

If you refuse to reply, I can only assume that this is spam and will therefore ban you from the forum.

[hardasnails1973]

How about some food for thought?  
Has any one considered the fact that people with POIS actually have a defect in the amount of oxytocin that is produced after organism. Researchers can look and conducts study to they are blue in the face.  When the most complex problems have the simpliest answer.  I find this popular in many diseases as I am currently researching  with a huge university on studies which may lead to cure of cystic fibrosis through understanding the mechanism by which it activates through a genetic mutation in a specific gene that is altered from birth.  Has any one measured brain function through Brain Mapping before and after an orgasm with a person with POIS vs a normal person to see the difference?  Some thing biological or neurologically must happen different in normal people.  Or is it the fact that people with POIS burn more cortisol during orgasm since it is a eustress resulting in depletion of your reserves. THAT IS THE MOST LOGICAL ANSWER.

[martin88]

Martin,
If one thinks elevated TSH is hyperthyroid then people really need to be educated properly. 

I agree it's perhaps rare but it is possible :
Here is a study from Oxford describing people with hyperthyroidism and high TSH.

Hypersecretion of TSH by a pituitary adenoma is thought to be a rare form of hyperthyroidism....Plasma thyroxine, free T4 and tri-iodothyronine were repeatedly raised in each; plasma TSH was grossly elevated in one
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/75/1/345

And adenoma has been found on several case of POIS..

Thank you for your suggestion about ferritin. I'll look at this.

[martin88]

May I know what will be the follow-up about NORD ? We can contact them again to explain why we can’t do what they ask (if we can’t) , they’ll eventually come back with  other suggestions.
I think we're not so far of a research on POIS. If 100 pois sufferers give 350$ to the persons in charge of the research then it's the required 35000$ !

[demografx]

We don't have 100.

[demografx]

Has any one considered the fact that people with POIS actually have a defect in the amount of oxytocin that is produced after organism.

If you bothered to check, instead of stating the question arrogantly, there are many, many references to oxytocin discussed at this forum:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oxytocin+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[demografx]

May I know what will be the follow-up about NORD ? We can contact them again to explain why we can’t do what they ask (if we can’t) , they’ll eventually come back with  other suggestions.

I think we're not so far of a research on POIS. If 100 pois sufferers give 350$ to the persons in charge of the research then it's the required 35000$ !

Martin, when I posted here about NORD, asking for feedback, no one responded. I assumed there was little enthusiasm. I could be wrong though.

[hardasnails1973]

In the people that have POIS that I have encountered (males) have abnormal  (low cortisol, functioning thyroid,low thyroid, abnormal neurotransmitters). When these were adjusted it helped symptoms of POIS. As I peruse these boards a lot of members have also encountered the same hormonal imbalances it appears.

[demografx]

...it takes priority over all things as Dr Mariano nicely pointed out...

The owner and moderator of this discussion board is Dr. Romeo B. Mariano who has his medical practice in Monterey CA. He's a psychiatrist with a specialty in behavioral endocrinology.

Some bodybuilders swear by him. To a number of people, he seems very controversial. I'll just give you a couple examples, by no means comprehensive in any way in describing his practice.

From internet postings and at least with one individual at this forum, he has reportedly swayed people with low testosterone away from TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) - the standard, extensively tested medical treatment worldwide for low testosterone - and instead recommended a multitude of supplements.

I am on TRT and it has changed my life. POIS episodes are now 75% to 90% healed, after searching for every possible cure under the sun, to no avail, for over 30 years. (This POIS treatment works for me, and is not recommended as a "cure" for POIS. Everyone is different and should be tested and treated in accordance with their own unique symptoms.)

He reportedly believes in neurotransmitter testing. My university endocrinologist, a respected academic and endocrinology-based practitioner for 30 years, says that neurotransmitter testing is a great idea, but it's highly unreliable.

Again, some bodybuilders think he has "the answers" to endocrine-related problems. After the first visit, everything is conducted by telephone, according to posted reports.

I would encourage extremely careful investigation into specific treatments recommended.

[hurray]

Hi Demo, haven't posted here for a bit but have been keeping track of your success story - long may it continue

Have been reading hardasnails1974's posts with interest - I somehow doubt that he/she has read through all 200odd pages as many here have (myself included), so I was interested to see them coming up with ideas related to oxytocin and cortisol without any outside help - I would be interested to hear hardasnail's thoughts as to how we could go about investigating those "food for thought" issues further.

Perhaps we can put his long, technically-charged posts down to enthusiasm having found this site?

The one thing that baffles me hardasnails is that you are talking about POIS as if it were a recognised ailment that you have had experience of treating. Is this really the case - the collective experience of this forum indicates that only a tiny percentage of qualified medical professionals have any idea that POIS exists. How long have you been dealing with it?

[demografx]

In the people that have POIS that I have encountered...

Is that 0, 1 or 2?

That's why I assume you won't reply to a number of questions asked of you from us. It only helps your credibility with those who are fond of longwinded, rambling, streaming monologue, presumably displaying vast knowledge.

An insult to our intelligence, for the most part.

[demografx]

[hardasnails], [h]ow long have you been dealing with [POIS]?

Hurray, haha, great question. Wanna wager that he won't reply? []

[martin88]

May I know what will be the follow-up about NORD ? We can contact them again to explain why we can’t do what they ask (if we can’t) , they’ll eventually come back with  other suggestions.

I think we're not so far of a research on POIS. If 100 pois sufferers give 350$ to the persons in charge of the research then it's the required 35000$ !

Martin, when I posted here about NORD, asking for feedback, no one responded. I assumed there was little enthusiasm. I could be wrong though.

Personally I was interested but didn't know what to say.
Also I was thinking 35000$ from exterior donations, it's unreachable. But from POIS sufferers I now think it's eventually possible (in the future).

[hurray]

To be honest I wasn't intending either humor or criticism, although both may end up being justified!  []

I would like to hear more about his ideas regarding oxytocin and cortisol, and what could be done to limit their depletion.
Hopefully he will provide some valuable contributions and engage with us ... let's see!

[demografx]

May I know what will be the follow-up about NORD ? We can contact them again to explain why we can’t do what they ask (if we can’t) , they’ll eventually come back with  other suggestions.

I think we're not so far of a research on POIS. If 100 pois sufferers give 350$ to the persons in charge of the research then it's the required 35000$ !

Martin, when I posted here about NORD, asking for feedback, no one responded. I assumed there was little enthusiasm. I could be wrong though.

Personally I was interested but didn't know what to say.
Also I was thinking 35000$ from exterior donations, it's unreachable. But from POIS sufferers I now think it's eventually possible (in the future).

Ah, now I understand better. But instead of many sufferers, Martin, just one wealthy benefactor who happens to be a POIS sufferer could kick-start this whole POIS-research process nicely. []

I think we should explore all avenues.

Similar to this, I've thought for some time that a physician (maybe best an endocrinologist?) who is POIS-afflicted would be a very powerful ally!

We'll get there!

[hurray]

I don't think $35000 is an impossible target at all. I would happily throw $1000 in the hat if I thought it could lead to a solution to POIS.

I would want to know more about exactly what my money was doing first, though, and whether further donations would be needed down the line in order to sustain the effort.

[demografx]

Hopefully he will provide some valuable contributions and engage with us ... let's see!

Wish I could be as optimistic, but he's totally ignored pointed questions about his POIS-credibility.

And totally ignored factual questions about errors pointed out by us.

Definitely not a straight-shooter.

Big red flags as far as I'm concerned.

If legitimacy doesn't come around soon, he's banned. If that means throwing out the good with the bad, how are we to know which is which?

[demografx]

I don't think $35000 is an impossible target at all. I would happily throw $1000 in the hat if I thought it could lead to a solution to POIS.

I would want to know more about exactly what my money was doing first, though, and whether further donations would be needed down the line in order to sustain the effort.

Hurray, thank you for your vote of confidence!

You're absolutely right, I've thought the same exact thing. We could spend the money wrongly and wind up with an introductory fluff chapter in a new book on POIS!

If we raised the money ourselves, we of course could scrutinize an organization like NORD very carefully to see what they would add to the mix. If some of us, for example, could contribute our time, we could pull off the effort ourselves by hiring the medical researchers.

I wonder if Bill Gates or Warren Buffet have POIS? Hmmmmm......

[demografx]

Another thought: $35,000 is what NORD wants. If we started more independently, who's to say $5,000 couldn't get us rolling? We should all think about the first steps and perhaps take it a step at a time, as they say, while we're looking for Bill Gates to write us a big check.