[demografx]

Each O digs me further underground.

DITTO!!

[demografx]

I asked my endo how to improve my 75% POIS cure. He said to test Estradiol and other hormones.

As another POIS experiment today (sparked by the usual in-POIS carbs-craving) I drank a "ton" of orange juice throughout the day. That, plus doubling the Rx stimulant-dose(again, with psychiatric approval) as mentioned in the first post at the top of this page, shortened the time of POIS symptoms significantly.

I know this goes counter to some people who studiously avoid carbs. But we're all built differently and, I think, have different forms of POIS.

for the good effect with orange it can be naringenin in it (or vitamin c!).
This substance is a natural aromatase inhibitor which prevent the conversion of testosterone into estradiol(which is anti testosterone).

from wiki:
Naringenin is a flavonoid that is considered to have a bioactive effect on human health as antioxidant, free radical scavenger, anti-inflammatory, carbohydrate metabolism promoter, and immune system modulator. It is the predominant flavanone in grapefruit.[1]

Naringenin found in grapefruit juice has been shown to have an inhibitory effect on the human cytochrome P450 isoform CYP1A2

Sources and bioavailability:
Grapefruit, Oranges, and Tomato (skin).


Also I heard that grapefruit juice is prohibited to avoid overdosing with some prescriptions drugs including some antidepressants. (this is very serious!). Not sure if naringenin is involved :
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1873672

Maybe aromatase inhibitors can help us with POIS:
-chrysin (passiflora)
-naringenin(grapefruit)
-resveratrol(grape)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resveratrol
Resveratrol also significantly increases natural testosterone production from being both a selective estrogen receptor modulator[73][74] and an aromatase inhibitor.[75][76]

Thanks, Martin. I simply thought my heavy dose of orange was only a "sugar rush", but the aromatose inhibition seems very logical!

[demografx]

Martin, you've researched testosterone extensively and have a lot of knowledge in this area: do you think it's possible for someone to take testosterone and not have their body shut down its own natural production of testosterone?

If so, I would like to approach a testosterone manufacturer to see if they can do a clinical trial on us for POIS. For motivation, there is potentially a new worldwide market for them!

[martin88]

Martin, you've researched testosterone extensively and have a lot of knowledge in this area: do you think it's possible for someone to take testosterone and not have their body shut down its own natural production of testosterone?

I have no experience with T, like you I'm curious to know the answer. I heard about clomid, HCG, novaldex to restart the natural T production. Also there is andriol (T pills) which is a weak androgen less likely to do this.

Thanks, Martin. I simply thought my heavy dose of orange was only a "sugar rush", but the aromatose inhibition seems very logical!

Sugar rush is also a possibility ..

[martin88]

just to report my trials with 100% pure cranberry juice. I couldn't find whole fruits. Unfortunately I had no success for POIS. More than 3 glasses in a row slightly increased my anxiety. But it's probably good to drink in long term for antioxydants. One funny thing, cranberry juice mixed with orange juice taste a bit like grapefruit.

the result of my 24h urine cortisol pois day 3 was 103nmol/d (28-276)...

[CertainlyPOIS]

Martin, you've researched testosterone extensively and have a lot of knowledge in this area: do you think it's possible for someone to take testosterone and not have their body shut down its own natural production of testosterone?

If so, I would like to approach a testosterone manufacturer to see if they can do a clinical trial on us for POIS. For motivation, there is potentially a new worldwide market for them!

Isnt that why body builders have smaller testicles.

[CertainlyPOIS]

just to report my trials with 100% pure cranberry juice. I couldn't find whole fruits. Unfortunately I had no success for POIS. More than 3 glasses in a row slightly increased my anxiety. But it's probably good to drink in long term for antioxydants. One funny thing, cranberry juice mixed with orange juice taste a bit like grapefruit.

the result of my 24h urine cortisol pois day 3 was 103nmol/d (28-276)...

With cortisol like that it is going to be hard to get a doctor to check your high ACTH.     

Is urine the most precise way to test 24/7 cortisol.   

[demografx]

Would anyone here be interested in my approaching a testosterone manufacturer (like Androderm/Watson Pharmaceuticals) to see if they would be interested in conducting research, clinical trials into the use of testosterone as a way to alleviate POIS - for low- testosterone and normal-testosterone POIS sufferers alike? Feel free to post your answer here or to send me a Private Message.

[lauracostis]

demo,
it sounds interesting, but there are not very many people with pois, their future sales from us(mostly forum memeber of this site)probably would not pay for their study. i just tied .5 cc injection of T in my but, 5 minutes after an o.  i am worried about down regualting natural t production and t receptor sites from continued use. 1 am only 28, and very hesitant to use t on a continual basis, except for, 4 0r 5 experiments where i have taken injections during bad pois symptoms.  a drug that naturally stimulates t sounds good, but anabolic steroids severly increase chances of getting cancer. 

[martin88]

the result of my 24h urine cortisol pois day 3 was 103nmol/d (28-276)...

With cortisol like that it is going to be hard to get a doctor to check your high ACTH.    

nothing new

Would anyone here be interested in my approaching a testosterone manufacturer (like Androderm/Watson Pharmaceuticals) to see if they would be interested in conducting research, clinical trials into the use of testosterone as a way to alleviate POIS - for low- testosterone and normal-testosterone POIS sufferers alike? Feel free to post your answer here or to send me a Private Message.

I think we have nothing to lose if they conduct a research. I'm reticent with clinical trials, except if they show me something wrong in my body, maybe with androgen receptors, liver, estrogens, .. I was reading in some papers of a lab "elevated levels of T suggests poor utilization"(something like tht), if this is true blood T tests are BS and we need more research.

[GoingCrazy]

Does anybody else get these "rushes" now.  My last 2 O's were characterized by extreme rushes of energy, I couldn't sit still and had to move around.  This rush lasted for about a few days, I didnt get any usual symptoms of POIS, such as depression, but I felt really energetic, as in an over-adrenalized state.

[demografx]

demo,

it sounds interesting, but there are not very many people with pois, their future sales from us(mostly forum members of this site) probably would not pay for their study.

Thanks, laurac. I thought POIS was rare too, but others have disagreed. Some even think it's a HUGE problem, but just that it goes unreported. It's taken many people (including me) years to connect the dots between sex and POIS symptoms. There's also the embarrassment factor: it took me (and others) a long time to get the courage to tell my POIS story to a physician for the first time. Each lack of understanding made me withdraw even further into privacy.

An awareness campaign might make a difference, even though it may take years. For example, Bob Dole and others spoke out about erectile dysfunction, others spoke out about alcoholism, drug addiction, breast cancer, etc.

We have had nearly 500,000 hits on this POIS thread. Surely those can't be all me double-checking my grammar []

anabolic steroids severely increase chances of getting cancer. 

Although a cancer link was thought to be true by many people for a long time, A Harvard review of 72 studies found no link to cancer:
http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/study-finds-no-direct-links-between-testosterone-therapy-diseases

It was my concern too, until I consulted some leading practitioners.

[demografx]

Harvard article shows testosterone relieves depression:
http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/testosterone-drives-away-blues

This has been certainly true in my case.

[demografx]

Quote from: demografx on 28/09/2009 19:53:09
Would anyone here be interested in my approaching a testosterone manufacturer (like Androderm/Watson Pharmaceuticals) to see if they would be interested in conducting research, clinical trials into the use of testosterone as a way to alleviate POIS - for low- testosterone and normal-testosterone POIS sufferers alike? Feel free to post your answer here or to send me a Private Message.

I think we have nothing to lose if they conduct a research. I'm reticent with clinical trials, except if they show me something wrong in my body, maybe with androgen receptors, liver, estrogens, .. I was reading in some papers of a lab "elevated levels of T suggests poor utilization"(something like tht), if this is true blood T tests are BS and we need more research.

Thanks, Martin!

OK, if I understand the response to my post correctly, there are only two (2) people here who are possibly interested in a clinical trial/research study of POIS and testosterone. Which is not enough for me to approach Watson Pharmaceuticals, Inc. If I'm wrong, and you are interested, please let me know by posting your interest here or by PM! Thank you.

[lauracostis]

 demo, you said, We have had nearly 500,000 hits on this POIS thread. Surely those can't be all me double-checking my grammar.  we have the words: sex. orgasm, and ejaculation, amoung other things all over this forum that are picked out by earch engines.  these people are looking for porn, the site our forum is on is called "the naked scientists".

you are right, i think there are more people out there ,but not a half million.  i think we should take advatage of the 500,000 hits for the purpose of convincing big pharma that there are tons of people out there with pois and the they can make a lot of money.

[demografx]

I think we should take advantage of the 500,000 hits for the purpose of convincing big pharma that there are tons of people out there with pois and that they can make a lot of money.

That was exactly what I intended, laurac. But if they ever read the earlier part of your post they could then accuse us of deception. []

[Paulrx]

Hello guys,

I think I have solution not to cure POIS but to totally bypass it. It's called male multiple orgasm. There're techniques out there to achieve what's often referred as to dry orgasm. In other words, by learning how to have orgasm without ejaculation, you would totally bypass POIS.
I encourage you to visit a board called newbielink:http://www.malemultiple.org [nonactive] where all the techniques and experiences are discussed freely. I'll also ask the moderators there if we can start a specific thread on POIS and MMO.
I truly believe that this is the way to go to combat this awful POIS!

Paul

[Defsync]

Quote from: demografx on 28/09/2009 19:53:09
Would anyone here be interested in my approaching a testosterone manufacturer (like Androderm/Watson Pharmaceuticals) to see if they would be interested in conducting research, clinical trials into the use of testosterone as a way to alleviate POIS - for low- testosterone and normal-testosterone POIS sufferers alike? Feel free to post your answer here or to send me a Private Message.

I think we have nothing to lose if they conduct a research. I'm reticent with clinical trials, except if they show me something wrong in my body, maybe with androgen receptors, liver, estrogens, .. I was reading in some papers of a lab "elevated levels of T suggests poor utilization"(something like tht), if this is true blood T tests are BS and we need more research.

Thanks, Martin!

OK, if I understand the response to my post correctly, there are only two (2) people here who are possibly interested in a clinical trial/research study of POIS and testosterone. Which is not enough for me to approach Watson Pharmaceuticals, Inc. If I'm wrong, and you are interested, please let me know by posting your interest here or by PM! Thank you.

I am interested.

Hell i'll be their guinea pig if they want to try solutions that have a moderate % to kill me even. Anything to find a REAL viable consistent solution.

[Defsync]

Hello guys,

I think I have solution not to cure POIS but to totally bypass it. It's called male multiple orgasm. There're techniques out there to achieve what's often referred as to dry orgasm. In other words, by learning how to have orgasm without ejaculation, you would totally bypass POIS.
I encourage you to visit a board called www.malemultiple.org where all the techniques and experiences are discussed freely. I'll also ask the moderators there if we can start a specific thread on POIS and MMO.
I truly believe that this is the way to go to combat this awful POIS!

Paul

yeah i can do that but it doesnt work for me, as i've stated before whatever causes the "feel good" sensation, with or without ejac, causes my POIS

[demografx]

Hello guys,

I think I have solution not to cure POIS but to totally bypass it. It's called male multiple orgasm. There're techniques out there to achieve what's often referred as to dry orgasm. In other words, by learning how to have orgasm without ejaculation, you would totally bypass POIS.
I encourage you to visit a board called www.malemultiple.org where all the techniques and experiences are discussed freely. I'll also ask the moderators there if we can start a specific thread on POIS and MMO.
I truly believe that this is the way to go to combat this awful POIS!
Paul

Previous forum posts on orgasm without ejaculation:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orgasm+without+ejaculation+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Previous forum posts on Mantak Chia:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mantak+chia+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I, and others, have pursued this avenue for years and "succeeded", but POIS still ravaged. Discussed in more detail above.