[CertainlyPOIS]

Here's something I struggle to understand. Why oh why did my own body decide to pick the worst timing possible to have an N.E.? I don't believe that when we're unconcious our brains have forgotten what's happening in our lives and are suddenly unaware of important events coming up. So why this self destruction? I write this now in the early hours of the morning as an example of the despair that POIS causes. Please forgive me for ranting.


At least this forum exists and for that I'm grateful.

sorry about that caffeine might help a little it gets me talking more but brain still not there, i have used it for test.
I just wanna say there is over the counter progestin (levonorgestrel) as next choice or plan b. I am not a doctor so i dont know the side effects but it is the only choice to try if doctors wont prescribe noriethisterone.

[demografx]

Here's something I struggle to understand. Why oh why did my own body decide to pick the worst timing possible to have an N.E.? I don't believe that when we're unconcious our brains have forgotten what's happening in our lives and are suddenly unaware of important events coming up. So why this self destruction? I write this now in the early hours of the morning as an example of the despair that POIS causes. Please forgive me for ranting.

Yesterday I was feeling really happy and positive. I work freelance and have a very important but exciting contract that starts in a couple of days. I also have a fun social gathering planned tonight. Just now I had my first N.E. in a very long time. Noooooo! Why now?! Instantly the world comes crashing down and an exciting and uplifting time becomes the exact opposite in seconds. I'm left wondering whether I should phone in ill and incapable of fulfilling my contract which I can't really afford to do financially or go ahead with the work knowing that I can't perform like I normally would and leave my big name client disappointed and potentially reluctant to hire me again. This job was a big break for me and I was feeling good about it. The contract lasts a week with potentially more work to follow later in the year off the back of it. My POIS episodes last at least a week. On the day the contract starts it'll be day 3 of POIS symptoms, days 3-5 are traditionally my worst. Why oh why would my body pick now to do this? You'd think even whilst subconcious my brain would've known by now the consequences of having an NE now.


I used to stress and worry about N.E.'s because this isn't the first time an NE has come at a bad time. Everytime some important work came up I would worry that an NE might ruin it which often meant not sleeping well. Sometimes I somehow 'knew' the night before an NE struck that an NE was likely to strike and I was often right. But I haven't worried about NE's for a few years now and life has been better for it. I've adopted a strategy for coping with POIS. For the most part I steer clear of masturbation for as long as possible but when the urge  is getting great or I think it soon will I identify a period when I can afford some downtime and masturbate then. This relieves urges and, once recovered, I'm often able to go another long period (month or more) without POIS symptoms until I pick another time when I can relieve myself without it affecting work and social life too much. This calculated masturbation coupled perhaps with just getting older seems to have pretty much eliminated the N.E. lottery from my life. I just don't really have NE's anymore. Until now. Now I'm faced with a prime example of how POIS ruins our lives. And I can't just phone my client and say “bear with me mate, I've got really bad Post Orgasmic Illness syndrome this week. I just thought I'd better let you know because I'm not always as vague and vacant as this. Usually I'm actually quite fun to be around and quite sharp. Despite appearances I'm actually good at my job”. Aaaagh!

Its exactly occasions like this when we desperately need something we can take that gives instant relief like the northisterone did for the guy in Dr Dexter's paper. I talked to a GP about northisterone showing her Dr Dexter's paper and Dr Waldinger's. She ran a mile. Understandably she explained she didn't have the necessary expertise and would never prescribe northisterone to a man. I need to find a willing GP because if northisterone works  for me then boy do I need it at a time like this. I fear with the weekend upon me that I won't get any in time to help me this week though.

At least this forum exists and for that I'm grateful.

mellivora, my heart goes out to you sincerely, empathetically, and with a heavy dose of recognition.

I don't know if it's any consolation, but I'll take it a step further: why - when we're conscious, not asleep - do we sabotage our own well being at the worst time possible? Maybe I shouldn't say "we"; it's certainly true of my experience for DECADES.

The only way I can explain it (in my case) is _denial_ . I somehow, in spite of decades' experience to the contrary, believed that THIS time will be different!...insanity!

[mellivora]

Thanks for the suggestions CC, I definitely appreciate them.

mellivora, my heart goes out to you sincerely, empathetically, and with a heavy dose of recognition.

I don't know if it's any consolation, but I'll take it a step further: why - when we're conscious, not asleep - do we sabotage our own well being at the worst time possible? Maybe I shouldn't say "we"; it's certainly true of my experience for DECADES.

The only way I can explain it (in my case) is _denial_ . I somehow, in spite of decades' experience to the contrary, believed that THIS time will be different!...insanity!

Thanks Demo. My POIS coping strategy might have sounded quite clear cut and organised from my description but I can definitely relate to occassional unplanned sabotage in the concious state too. I think that such evolutionarily primitive, deeply seated and powerful mechanisms are at play its extremely difficult to gain 100 per cent control over them in the long-term. (The drive and arguably purpose of most of the natural world is to reproduce). I have experienced your "maybe it'll be different this time" blind optimism many times!

Of course my current unfortunate episode is but one example amongst a treacle sea of others that everyone on this forum swims regularly through.

[John21 (OP)]

Mellovira,
I hope you are able to stumble through this period. This is the exact reason why I always found it risky to commit to anything. But we all have to work. So many times I forced myself to work through it, which was usually very stressful. When in POIS the only thing we can do is to make excuses for our poor performance (admit you are not feeling well) and look forward the end of the tunnel where we can often redeem ourselves.

Stress reduction methods never really worked for me, but has anyone tried using NLP (neuro linguistic programming)? I have watched some youTube videos on people using it to remove phobias. Is it a crock or is there something to it? It certainly wouldn't work to remove POIS, as POIS is not a mere fear, but could it reduce the stress of having to perform in that state?

Demo,
I can identify with your comment as well. It took me many years of horror before I realized I should be chaste. Now things are not perfect but at least the POIS monster is usually locked up, which is a far cry from what I used to live with.

[daveman]

Mellivora,

I'm a contractor similar to you. Do you have someone who could help you sub-contracting part of the work. It means less for you but leaves you better with your client for the future. I fought with that problem for quite some time, usually refusing the work rather than sacrificing some of the income. I also felt that I was the only one that could do the work. But, in the end, you can usually break the work into pieces and offload more common tasks of the more complex overall.

Maybe this time it's too late to implement, but think about prepaparing people for the future.

There are a couple of meditations that you can do to separate the emotional stress, anger  and anxiety from the actual POIS symptoms. I've found that they improve performance about 300%. It doesn't make the POIS go away but it allows ou to work through more easily.

You can PM me if you would be interested.

[mellivora]

Thanks John21 for your feedback. I've actually trialled garlic, spinach and blueberries over the last year or two and don't think I've ever acknowledged as much. the jury is out as to whether they work for me but for a time I was thinking I was experiencing less severe symptoms with spinach. its difficult to quantify though and the positive effect doesn't seem to have been felt quite as much of late. In my last POIS episode I ate a lot of blueberries and strawberries (say a 200g punnet of blueberries a day plus half a punnet of strawberries). I ate them with natural bio yogurt. the one thing I noticed about the last episode was that my stool stayed pretty normal throughout - usually it loosens with POIS. I can't definitely say it was down to the berries though.

Thanks for your meditation details daveman, I PM'd you back.

Thanks everyone for all your continuing ideas generally. We all have down turns but I think we are all pretty amazing for staying as positive as we do under the circumstances.

[horizon]

Hi everyone,
Im 34 and have this problem- headaches, tiredness, muscle aches, fatigue after sex, for about 4 days after.
Ive read the first 250 pages so far of this forum.

I went to the doctors today about it, a pretty excruciating experience but overdue.
Ive got a blood test booked for tuesday morning for hormones/thyroid.

I said to the doctor I would like to have 2 tests done
something like 2-3 weeks after an orgasm (out-of-pois) and
one 1+1/2 days after (in pois).

He said its unlikely to matter, so I got the feeling Im only going to get one test.
Since I am having a big (one-off) get-together with friends on Thursday Im thinking of not having sex to stay lively as possible for that, so the test will be out-of-pois.
I guess the obvious answer would be to have an in-pois test done, meaning an orgasm on either sunday or monday or maybe tuesday prior.

But Im thinking if some kind of HRT is an option as a treatment the out-of-pois could tell me more and be more useful as to whether its a safe option since I spend more time living out-of-pois (avoiding sex!).

Whats everyones opinion on test timing (?)
 
Thanks

[daveman]

As you have probably read, the docs practically speaking and especially if they're just GPs, don't know the difference between good test and a bad test, especially if they both show levels between the limits.

If you do the out-of-pois, I would imagine it's only value would be to provide a baseline. So if you don't do the in-pois, the out-of-pois probably won't mean much.

My suggestion is try to insist on the two tests, and let some of us here analyze them. Or I'm sure we can find someone who can give them a good evaluation.

Which hormones did you ask for, or which ones is he going to test? I suppose you can't change the order before Tuesday if you need to? If you can indicate what will be tested, hopefully someone here can indicate if those tests will be useful. I guess you've chosen tests based on what you've read in those 250 pages?

Welcome to the club "horizon".

[demografx]

Demo,

I can identify with your comment as well. It took me many years of horror before I realized I should be chaste. Now things are not perfect but at least the POIS monster is usually locked up, which is a far cry from what I used to live with.

John, I've always admired you for that. Zillions of attempts, but I have never been successful with chastity. One of our outside-professional POIS "admirers" tells me that's because I'm a musician  []

[demografx]

So if you don't do the in-pois, the out-of-pois probably won't mean much.

I lucked out, daveman. I did only out-of-pois and it worked.

[demografx]

horizon, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:


Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here.
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only formal medical investigation on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

There are 2 ways to get it: (1) if you want a PDF copy, send me a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and I'll send you back the PDF. Or, if you prefer, (2) I can simply reply with a Private Message (no regular email needed) and provide you with a simple text version embedded in your PM.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For for over 3 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus over 600,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

horizon, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: 3 years' worth of posts (over 7,000 posts!) from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

[demografx]

I think we are all pretty amazing for staying as positive as we do under the circumstances.

Absolutely true!!!

[demografx]

C'mon over 'n' chat!
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

[lauracostis]

limejuice how is your new treatment going.


i have figured out a way to see if LH and FSH are causing pois and if sperm loss or orgasm causes pois.
it is very simple actually,  there is a new male contraceptive pill that will be coming out in the near future, which uses a combination of both testosterone and progesterone to effectively lower ones sperm count to zero. it has already been tested in over 48 countries, and has no side effect, actually no one  could tell any difference in there life at all after taking the contraceptive.
both progesterone (P) and testosterone (T) are antagonists of GNRH released by the hypothalamus. GNRH then would cause the anterior pituitary gland to release FSH and LH. these hormones cause the production of sperm. although testosterone is also used to make sperm it is also the mechanism of the negative feedback system that tells the hypothalamus and pituitary gland to stop making sperm when levels of testosterone and progesterone rise above a certain point. its actually the release of FSH and LH that (T) and (P) are shutting down. this stop sperm from being made.

it is a little strange because FSH and LH actually are used in making testosterone. it funny because the exact amount of (T) and (P) used to shut down the production of LH and FSH are the exact amount needed to replace them. and this is true, because non of the men in the 48 countries the contraceptives were tested in could even tell that they had ever taken a drug at all.  the only effect is that they had a sperm count around zero.

this is important because we will not be releasing FSH or LH after an ejaculation to replace the sperm we lost. this will tell us if those hormones are responsible for pois.

also important is that when we have an orgasm and ejaculate no sperm will be released and non will be produced afterward to replace lost sperm.  this is very important because it will tell us if sperm loss or orgasm is responsible for pois.

[lauracostis]

since my own doctor was the one who told me about progesterone/testosterone being used as a male contraceptive, i may be able to convince her to let me try it.  since the contraceptive is not out on the market i would have to take a low dose progesterone pill and wear a very low dose testosterone patch to make my own. this would effectively rule out a few major theories we have (FSH, LH and sperm).

now wait everybody dont go running out and trying out this new concoction, i am going to take one for the team here. my gp will probably have to send me to and endo for this one, and once i get there i will probably have to dazzle the endo with magic tricks to get it prescribed.

if the fact that the male contraceptive can remove FSH, LH, and SPERM from your body and still have your body running perfectly does not impress you, than you are not impressible.
this is my dream experiment come true for pois.

[strawberryman]

Do benzos help with POIS symptoms ?

[daveman]

since my own doctor was the one who told me about progesterone/testosterone being used as a male contraceptive, i may be able to convince her to let me try it.  since the contraceptive is not out on the market i would have to take a low dose progesterone pill and wear a very low dose testosterone patch to make my own. this would effectively rule out a few major theories we have (FSH, LH and sperm).

now wait everybody dont go running out and trying out this new concoction, i am going to take one for the team here. my gp will probably have to send me to and endo for this one, and once i get there i will probably have to dazzle the endo with magic tricks to get it prescribed.

if the fact that the male contraceptive can remove FSH, LH, and SPERM from your body and still have your body running perfectly does not impress you, than you are not impressible.
this is my dream experiment come true for pois.

Put me on the list of interested!

[prism]

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sexandrelationships/malepill.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3543478/

You could contact Dr. Andrea Coviello, Dr. Richard Anderson and Dr Christina Wang before doing the progesterone and testosterone experiments to see what they say/recommend, perhaps email, then call them(?)
http://www.hrsu.mrc.ac.uk/staff/RAnderson/randerson.php
http://depts.washington.edu/popctr/currentfellows.htm
http://depts.washington.edu/popctr/investigators.htm
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-05/labr-obc_1050310.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/22073.php?from=159681

Currently looking for male volunteers...
http://www.labiomed.org/
http://www.labiomed.org/index.php?name=Contact Us
(says in corner "To enroll in the male contraceptive study, please email
malecontraception@labiomed.org or call 310-222-8191")
watch this...http://cbs2.com/video/?id=134585@kcbs.dayport.com
Dr.Ronald Swerdloff at LAbiomed says they use (progestin) "Nestorone Gel" which turns off signals from the pituitary gland which normally tell the testes to make sperm, then testosterone is given.

[GoingCrazy]

I'm posting this usually because the guilt i feel after masturbation.  I was at a party last night... kind of funny... one of the main topics, masturbation.  It felt weird talking about it, it really is a universal thing.  Some friends talking about how they have been doing it a few times a day over the past 10 years.  One of my problems with POIS is the guilt associated with it.  I'd just like everybody to know once again that it is not some code or law that is being broken with masturbation, it is just how our bodies react to it.  I, usually, along with the cognitive experiences I feel during POIS, put myself down a lot, as if I'm the only one in the world that does it.  The one thing we should tell ourselves if we fall victim to this guilt is that EVERYONE does it, it's just how our bodies currently react to sex.