[Animus]

Back in August we talked about the potential for the male anti-consceptive!! This now seems like a VERY good option for a quicker solution to the allergy problem.

The product stops the production of sperm by tricking the system into thinking that the coffers are full. A subtle and not even potent combination of testosterone and progesterone. Similar to, but different than TRT that replensihes the coffers quickly (like Demo's case).

Could it be that TRT produces levels enough to prevent sperm production all together?
Or could it be that TRT produces full and complete "O"s more cosnsitently therefore exposing the system to lesser pressures and residues that cause leakage in "the gap".

I say this because as we have recently said. Some of us have epxerienced shorter POIS sessions with full and complete "O"s. If there's a gap and no backpressure but good flow through, perhaps the leakage is limited. And in some the gap may require greater pressures to produce "leakage". It IS strange, but if all the ducks are lined up right, and there's also a "push" through the orgasm, one might think that there'd be more pressure. But you can feel when it's good, it flows cleanly despite the pushing.

If the p3n1s is soft and doubled-up, it doesn't flow, there's much more internal pressure and the back-flow stays inside.

Just a couple of ideas on why TRT might work!

the male contraceptive treatment that i proposed with progesterone and testosterone only stops the production of sperm and also some other hormones that are associated with their production.  Dr. Waldinger did his experiments with semen because he does not have the resources to separately test all the components of semen.  i can only imagine that sperm would be the most likely part of semen to cause a reaction. 

the male contraceptive would be an excellent start for someone to see if sperm and the neuro-endocrine chemicals associated with their production are causing are problem.  All the studies i read said the treatment is safe and that no side effects were reported at all, which is quite unbelievable. the only problem is that there is no pill made for the male contraceptive that is out on the market yet.  You would have to go see and endocrinologist and he would prescribe two prescriptions for progesterone and testosterone that you would have to take together.  I have an study that shows many of the different hormone combination that have been tried and the results as they apply to stopping sperm production.  what happens when your on the treatment is that when you ejaculate semen comes out, but no sperm.   
for anyone who does not know the difference, sperm are the little critters from your testis that swim and make a girl pregnant.  semen is a mixture of sperm with other fluids, your semen on the treatment will be absent of of sperm.  it is sperm antibodies that can result from a vasectomy and not semen anti bodies. 

I agree that it's quite possible that we may be allergic to some other component.

In my case I would be tempted to think that it is sperm, because it is very very likely I have heavy anti-bodies to sperm.

I'm not sure how easy it may be to find someone in Chile willing to make the combination, but I would probably start with my reversal doctor. He's a urologist, specializing in micro-surgery.... but with knowledge of course of the workings of the immunological functions involved. Not sure if he forsaw the systemic wide potential for the allergy however....

Anyways, would it be possible to PM me some of the data you speak of so I can present it to him? I'll bring copies of the Dr. Waldinger papers as well. I think he may well be very prepared to accept the report, as he made similar warnings to me at the time of the reversal, (about sperm anti-bodies and damage to plumbing as a result of reactions with them... no mention of POIS though).

I'm not sure if some fear of liability might cause him to just play dumb however.... we'll have to see how it goes.

daveman, speaking as a guinea pig, I can say that stopping production of sperm alone did not end all of my POIS symptoms. It did improve them a little though. I really needed to stop all semen production entirely to cure my POIS. Just thought you might like to know. Hopefully somebody will find a way to cure it without making that necessary.

[Animus]

One thing which I may have mentioned before, but which may have new relevance in light of Dr. Waldinger's studies, is the fact that, when I am in POIS, I notice that the force of my urine stream is considerably weaker, as compared to when I am out of POIS.

Same symptom for me, usually very mild. Always only in the morning immediately after I wake up. However recently (maybe 2 months ago) I started to take 200IU vit D, 3X/day, and it was VERY aggravated. Then when I stopped vitamin D all came back like before. I don't know if it's just a coincidence...
I think it was prostate related, even if I'm only 40.

I also had a weak urine stream during POIS. Usually a weak urine stream is a sign of an enlarged or overactive prostate. And I would also get some incontinence during POIS which is also a sign of prostate enlargement. One can also use some medicines to keep it in check. Saw Palmetto works very well for me, as does Flomax. That cured the weak urine stream anv the incontinence.

[Z_one]

Anyone had success using Cymbalta for replenishing SSRI levels???

I heard it is a dangerous drug Iam reluctant,,,

[daveman]

Can anyone help an idiot and PM me how to print off the PDF files so I can take/send them to my Doctor please I've got no idea when it comes to computers.

Decided I'm going to give it another go with him, if he still takes no notice after reading the reports then I'll change Doctors.

Thanks  

Maybe someone can fax it to you? (My fax is down).

Kristy, you can also email it to your local Fedex Office and they can print it out for you.

Or take the files to a local cyber-cafe, they can print them

[daveman]

daveman, speaking as a guinea pig, I can say that stopping production of sperm alone did not end all of my POIS symptoms. It did improve them a little though. I really needed to stop all semen production entirely to cure my POIS. Just thought you might like to know. Hopefully somebody will find a way to cure it without making that necessary.

Ahhh yes, I remember now. Another hint that it may be some other constituent in the semen.

I'm going to see if I can get a reaction from local specialists here on a formulation of the male birth control medicine....

A difficult first step.

I'm going to push it because there's strong support in my case for high sperm anti-bodies.

If the test doesn't work, it will be heavy support for some other component in the semen. If it does work, at least we'll know that there is more immediate hope for some!

[daveman]

I feel like I'm coming out the other side of a very bad case of POIS. Physical symptoms have been about the same, but this time there were very heavy mental effects, particularly depressive.

I don't have depression in the family nor have I ever had any hints of depression! I had as I explained earlier a 1,1,3 cycle. 1 wk., 1wk, then this one will be three. This has been more or less consistent over the last 3 or 4 months.

This time the first of the 1,1,3, was a little different. I had the first "O" on day 0 and the second "O" on day 1!! Never going to do THAT again. This produced the first depressive event on the day 1,2. However, all this passed quickly, by day 2,3 I was feeling a lot better and day 3,4 almost completely better.

So I passed a week, did it again!! Aargh. Started out OK, little physical, and day 2 passed quite cleanly, but it went downhill from there. Days 3 to 5 very bad mentally.

Perhaps there are some personal aggravators, although, these normally don't effect me much. But somehow I must have been greatly desensitized by the POIS.

But I can feel the POIS veil lifting, like coming out of the tunnel.

I don't think, but could very well be wrong, that I am progressively being more greatly effected by the mental effects. I think that it had to do more with the fact that I had too many "O" in close proximity. It wasn't really 1,1,3, it was more like 0,1,3. Or 3 "O"s in about a week and a half. That for me is a no-no. I'm going to have to aim a 2, 2, 2.
Twice a month max, darn! (What did Georga Carlin say the six forbidden words where???)

[daveman]

My last post made me think.... I can't do once per week or more without greater effects, so I usually keep it to once or less. And for that reason only suffer medium to light physical symptoms. Have we ever monitored effects against "O"s per week though? It seems to me there are many here who do more than once per week.

For instance if I keep to 0.5 "O"s per week, I have light to medioum physical symptoms and nothing more. 1 per wk is accumulative and produces heavier symptoms, mostly physical especially in the third week. The brain fog is heavier as the accumulation increases.

I think we've agreed that more often, is worse. But this is also a little difficult to perceive at any given time. For instance, I know that a second "O" after a week seems to clear up quite quickly, yet thinking about it, it's sort of a trade off. The physical gets better more quickly but the brainfog can last a little longer.

For instance for those who suffer worse mentally, what would your "O"s per week ratio be.
For those who's symptoms are more physical, the same question.

Who knows. Probably nothing in these numbers. Or is there?

[horizon]

Male Contraceptives- Different types in development
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_contraceptive

Pharmaceutical methods
One goal of research is to develop a male oral contraceptive, a male contraceptive that can be taken in pill form by mouth, as The Pill was for women.

Calcium channel blockers such as nifedipine may cause reversible infertility by altering the lipid metabolism of sperm so that they are not able to fertilize an egg.[18] Recent Research at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University show that as of June 2010, such a pill may be 5 years away. Testing it the pill on Mice has been found to be effective, with no side effects[19]

Adjudin, a non-toxic analog of lonidamine which, in tests on rats, has been shown to cause reversible infertility.[20] The drug disrupts the junctions between nurse cells (Sertoli cells) in the testes and forming spermatids. The sperm are released prematurely and never become functional gametes. A new targeted delivery mechanism has made Adjudin much more effective.[21]

Multiple male hormonal contraceptive protocols have been developed. One is a combination protocol, involving injections of Depo-Provera to prevent spermatogenesis, combined with the topical application of testosterone gel to provide hormonal support.[22][23] Another is a monthly injection of testosterone undecanoate, which recently performed very well in a Phase III trial in China.[24][25]
Research has been performed on interference with the maturation of sperm in the epididymis.[26][27]

Phenoxybenzamine has been found to block ejaculation, which not only gives it the potential to be an effective contraceptive, but could also lead to much cleaner sex. Studies have found that the quality of the semen is unaffected and the results are reversible by simply discontinuing the treatment.[28]

Silodosin, an α1-adrenoceptor antagonist with high uroselectivity, has been shown to completely block ejaculation in human males while permitting the sensation of orgasm.

[daveman]

Male Contraceptives- Different types in development
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_contraceptive

Pharmaceutical methods
One goal of research is to develop a male oral contraceptive, a male contraceptive that can be taken in pill form by mouth, as The Pill was for women.

Calcium channel blockers such as nifedipine may cause reversible infertility by altering the lipid metabolism of sperm so that they are not able to fertilize an egg.[18] Recent Research at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University show that as of June 2010, such a pill may be 5 years away. Testing it the pill on Mice has been found to be effective, with no side effects[19]

Adjudin, a non-toxic analog of lonidamine which, in tests on rats, has been shown to cause reversible infertility.[20] The drug disrupts the junctions between nurse cells (Sertoli cells) in the testes and forming spermatids. The sperm are released prematurely and never become functional gametes. A new targeted delivery mechanism has made Adjudin much more effective.[21]

Multiple male hormonal contraceptive protocols have been developed. One is a combination protocol, involving injections of Depo-Provera to prevent spermatogenesis, combined with the topical application of testosterone gel to provide hormonal support.[22][23] Another is a monthly injection of testosterone undecanoate, which recently performed very well in a Phase III trial in China.[24][25]
Research has been performed on interference with the maturation of sperm in the epididymis.[26][27]

Phenoxybenzamine has been found to block ejaculation, which not only gives it the potential to be an effective contraceptive, but could also lead to much cleaner sex. Studies have found that the quality of the semen is unaffected and the results are reversible by simply discontinuing the treatment.[28]

Silodosin, an α1-adrenoceptor antagonist with high uroselectivity, has been shown to completely block ejaculation in human males while permitting the sensation of orgasm.

The third option Multiple male hormonal contraceptive is the one I think we discussed here most predominantly. This method prevents spermatogenesis altogether, which would be the best option in the case of potential sperm allergy. However if it is an allery to other components of the semen.....

Calcium channel blockers and Adjudin permit sperm production although the sperm may be non-viable, however it may not guaranttee prevention of allergy because valid sperm material is present.

The last two... who knows. They seem to function in a manner similar to a vasectomy in that seminal material doesn't leave the system. Could be good options. With Silodosin it mentions specifically that one does not loose the effect of the orgasm.

[Animus]

Can anyone help an idiot and PM me how to print off the PDF files so I can take/send them to my Doctor please I've got no idea when it comes to computers.

Decided I'm going to give it another go with him, if he still takes no notice after reading the reports then I'll change Doctors.

Thanks  

Maybe someone can fax it to you? (My fax is down).

Kristy, you can also email it to your local Fedex Office and they can print it out for you.

Or take the files to a local cyber-cafe, they can print them

You need to download the Adobe Reader- which is able to open up the PDF files and print them. It's a free program:
http://get.adobe.com/reader/

[CertainlyPOIS]

Can anyone help an idiot and PM me how to print off the PDF files so I can take/send them to my Doctor please I've got no idea when it comes to computers.

Decided I'm going to give it another go with him, if he still takes no notice after reading the reports then I'll change Doctors.

Thanks  

Maybe someone can fax it to you? (My fax is down).

Kristy, you can also email it to your local Fedex Office and they can print it out for you.

Or take the files to a local cyber-cafe, they can print them

You need to download the Adobe Reader- which is able to open up the PDF files and print them. It's a free program:
http://get.adobe.com/reader/

Download it from your email when you download save it to your desktop so you know where it is on your computer and just print it.

[Animus]

Male Contraceptives- Different types in development
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_contraceptive

Pharmaceutical methods
One goal of research is to develop a male oral contraceptive, a male contraceptive that can be taken in pill form by mouth, as The Pill was for women.

Calcium channel blockers such as nifedipine may cause reversible infertility by altering the lipid metabolism of sperm so that they are not able to fertilize an egg.[18] Recent Research at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University show that as of June 2010, such a pill may be 5 years away. Testing it the pill on Mice has been found to be effective, with no side effects[19]

Adjudin, a non-toxic analog of lonidamine which, in tests on rats, has been shown to cause reversible infertility.[20] The drug disrupts the junctions between nurse cells (Sertoli cells) in the testes and forming spermatids. The sperm are released prematurely and never become functional gametes. A new targeted delivery mechanism has made Adjudin much more effective.[21]

Multiple male hormonal contraceptive protocols have been developed. One is a combination protocol, involving injections of Depo-Provera to prevent spermatogenesis, combined with the topical application of testosterone gel to provide hormonal support.[22][23] Another is a monthly injection of testosterone undecanoate, which recently performed very well in a Phase III trial in China.[24][25]
Research has been performed on interference with the maturation of sperm in the epididymis.[26][27]

Phenoxybenzamine has been found to block ejaculation, which not only gives it the potential to be an effective contraceptive, but could also lead to much cleaner sex. Studies have found that the quality of the semen is unaffected and the results are reversible by simply discontinuing the treatment.[28]

Silodosin, an α1-adrenoceptor antagonist with high uroselectivity, has been shown to completely block ejaculation in human males while permitting the sensation of orgasm.

The third option Multiple male hormonal contraceptive is the one I think we discussed here most predominantly. This method prevents spermatogenesis altogether, which would be the best option in the case of potential sperm allergy. However if it is an allery to other components of the semen.....

Calcium channel blockers and Adjudin permit sperm production although the sperm may be non-viable, however it may not guaranttee prevention of allergy because valid sperm material is present.

The last two... who knows. They seem to function in a manner similar to a vasectomy in that seminal material doesn't leave the system. Could be good options. With Silodosin it mentions specifically that one does not loose the effect of the orgasm.

That's very interesting. especially the Silodosin, and Pheno. I wonder who's developing them?

[Animus]

Hi,
Can anyone tell me if we still have a world map of the members on the Forum? I remember someone started that not too long ago. I'm really interested to start a local, San Francisco support group, and would like to contact other members in this area. Also, please contact me if you're in California, or on the West Coast. Thanks.

[demografx]

I just wrote to Dr Christina Wang, one of the principal investigators of the male contraceptive study, to see what their status is. (Started in May, 2010 with a $1.5 million grant).

[horizon]

Calcium channel blockers and Adjudin permit sperm production although the sperm may be non-viable, however it may not guaranttee prevention of allergy because valid sperm material is present.

I understand exactly what you're saying but I wouldnt rule them out so quick...

...We know Testosterone has been found to help POIS.
Could it be Testosterone helps POIS because Testosterone changes the structure (protein structure) of semen, this then, in turn, prevents the allergic reaction?

Perhaps changing the structure of semen prevents the allergic reaction??

As Calcium channel blockers and Adjudin both also change the structure of semen, they could prevent an allergic reaction?

In regards to Silodosin
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silodosin
"Since silodosin is a highly selective inhibitor of the α1A adrenergic receptor, it causes practically no orthostatic hypotension (in contrast to other α1 blockers). On the other side, the high selectivity seems to cause more problems with ejaculation.[3]

As α1A adrenoceptor antagonists are being investigated as a means to male birth control due to their ability to inhibit ejaculation but not orgasm, a trial with 15 male volunteers was conducted. While silodosin was completely efficacious in preventing the release of semen in all subjects, 12 out of the 15 patients reported mild discomfort upon orgasm. The men also reported the psychosexual side effect of being strongly dissatisfied by their lack of ejaculation.[4] Despite the incidence of side effects, the drug still appears to be a promising candidate for a male oral contraceptive drug."

This is a little disappointing to read "12 out of the 15 patients reported mild discomfort upon orgasm".
But wait, think about it, if we learn more on what causes "discomfort upon orgasm" perhaps we will all learn more about the causes of POIS. (although, of course, POIS is discomfort after orgasm). If a drug can do the opposite of Silodosin then perhaps we are on to a winner.
But if Silodosin is found to prevent POIS, Id be willing to put up with discomfort on orgasm if it prevents a week of feeling awful after.
Is this the first drug to be reported to cause "discomfort upon orgasm"? Very interesting.

Phenoxybenzamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenoxybenzamine

Phenoxybenzamine (marketed under the trade name Dibenzyline) is a non-specific, irreversible alpha antagonist.

Uses
It is used in the treatment of hypertension, and specifically that caused by pheochromocytoma. It has a slower onset and a longer lasting effect compared with other alpha blockers.

It was also the first alpha blocker to be used for treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia,[1] although it is currently seldom used for that indication due to unfavourable side effects.
It has been used in the treatment of hypoplastic left heart syndrome.[2]
It is also used in Complex Regional Pain Syndrome Type 1 due to its anti-adrenergic affects. It has shown to be beneficial if used in the first 3 months of CRPS diagnosis.

Phenoxybenzamine has long been known to block ejaculation without affecting semen quality or ability to achieve orgasm, which could make it an effective male contraceptive. This effect is completely reversible, and is believed to be the result of alpha-1 adrenoceptor blockade in the longitudinal muscles of the vas deferens.[3][4][5] As of 2008, research was underway to identify possible drug candidates that share this effect but act specifically on the reproductive tract, unlike phenoxybenzamine.[3]

Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing but "blockade in the longitudinal muscles of the vas deferens" sounds interesting to me as I have a pet theory those Vas Deferen muscles are the key to my POIS problem.

[demografx]

Hi,
Can anyone tell me if we still have a world map of the members on the Forum? I remember someone started that not too long ago. I'm really interested to start a local, San Francisco support group, and would like to contact other members in this area. Also, please contact me if you're in California, or on the West Coast. Thanks.

http://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/pois-map
PM  "mat780" for more details.

[demografx]

For those interested in the norethisterone-progesterone study

From:         Christina Wang, MD
Date:         January 24, 2011 1:31:33 PM PST
To:              demografx
Cc:             Elizabeth Ruiz
                   Ronald S Swerdloff

Subject:       RE: Male conraceptive study

We are currently completing a study and will be starting a study on a new oral androgen to see whether this agent will be tolerated in healthy men and to do preliminary studies on how effective this may be. We will let you know when the recruitment of this study starts.
 
Christina Wang, MD
Program Director,
General Clinical Research Center
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center and Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute
Professor of Medicine,
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA


From:         demografx
Sent:           Monday, January 24, 2011 1:09 PM
To:               Christina Wang, MD
Subject:       Male conraceptive study
 
Dear Dr Wang,
 
We communicated about one year ago. If you recall, I moderate an internet forum of people who are very interested in your work.
 
Can you please tell me briefly the status of the male contraceptive study/investigation?
 
Many thanks,
 
[demografx]

[lauracostis]

I just wrote to Dr Christina Wang, one of the principal investigators of the male contraceptive study, to see what their status is. (Started in May, 2010 with a $1.5 million grant).

demo if you ever hear back from Dr. Wang, see if you can find out what progesterone/testosterone combination they are using and the dosage, route, and frequency.

[Animus]

[]Attention all West Coast POIS sufferers!! []

Please contact me if you live in California, or in San Francisco!
I would like to form a local support group of POIS members, where if we get together we might be able to accomplish more, share resources, and information! I know of some good doctors in this area, and it would be great to meet you. Together we might be able to have more leverage with the medical community.
Please PM me. [/size]

[Animus]

Hi,
Can anyone tell me if we still have a world map of the members on the Forum? I remember someone started that not too long ago. I'm really interested to start a local, San Francisco support group, and would like to contact other members in this area. Also, please contact me if you're in California, or on the West Coast. Thanks.

http://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/pois-map
PM  "mat780" for more details.

thanks, demo