[FinalPanic]

Well as a follow up to the Fibromyalgia post I have read through this: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Fibromyalgia/Pages/Symptoms.aspx [nofollow] (UK Health Service website) - the suffers posts at the foot of the article very much reflect our bewilderment at POIS - symptoms seem so similar - could we be low level sufferers of the illness and orgasm just kicks it off to a higher level? Has this been discussed on here - or am I too far off track with this now?

[Quasar]

Demografx,

What you say makes sense to me. I believe POIS makes some kind of change to the circulatory system. One of my main symptoms is that after O, i feel a change in my scalp, heart, and abdominal veins. I don't know if POIS makes them to contract or dilate. It feels like a migraine to the whole body.

Also, under POIS, i loose my sexual potency, and become some kind of impotent. So, it makes a lot of sense that Levitra helps. It would be very nice to know if POIS either makes our blood vessels to dilatee or contract.

Then we could think of an strategy. I mean, maybe aborting that dilation, or that contraction in the first place.

If we take a look at this page: http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/abdominal-migraine.html

we can see beta-blockers are proposed for abdominal migraines.

Was just reading about Niacin flushes - seems to be related to what you suggest and hence reversal of effect?

"Niacin causes flushing by dilating (expanding) the blood vessels on the surface of the skin. Although this side effect of niacin is harmless, it is often severe enough for people to stop taking niacin."

Absolutely. Niacin flush seems to dilate blood vessels, so taken before orgasm, it could abort the vasocongestion an orgasm causes:

Before having an O, our blood vessels are contracted because of adrenaline, etc. When we have the O, we also have sudden local spikes in blood pressure in different areas of the body. After having the O, sometimes we get a facial flush because of histamine/serotonin, and blood vessels dilate.

¿What if our blood vessels are not enough elastic (or too much contracted) and the local spikes in blood are too high? Then, our blood vessels dilate too much. They overreact!

This is how i think the Levitra, and the Niacin flush work:

They dilate blood vessels before having an O, so the spike in blood pressure is less intense, and blood vessels don't have to overreact, they don't have to over-dilate.

I think a dilation from Levitra / Niacin flush is very different from a dilation from a sudden blood pressure spike coming from contracted blood vessels (orgasm):

In the first case, we have a dilation from nitric oxide and niacin.

In the second case, we have a dilation from an unhealthy spike, coming from blood too low in oxygen, and the key ingredients are histamine and serotonin, which are more aggresive and more prone to migraines.

So, to sum up, it makes a lot of sense that Niacin an Levitra are somehow working. We could think of more vasodilators. Not all of them are going to work, or course.

I can think of beta blockers. But they act more like preventing contraction. They are not exactly vasodilators. So, depending on the beta blocker, they could be more or less effective to us.

Take a look at this:

"The first generation of beta-blockers were non-selective, meaning that they blocked both beta-1 (β1) and beta-1 (β2) adrenoceptors. Second generation beta-blockers are more cardioselective in that they are relatively selective for β1 adrenoceptors. Note that this relative selectivity can be lost at higher drug doses. Finally, the third generation beta-blockers are drugs that also possess vasodilator actions through blockade of vascular alpha-adrenoceptors."

But remember: beta blockers don't work instantly, they need some days.

Some examples of 3rd generation beta blockers: Carvedilol, Bisoprolol, Nebivolol, Metoprolol.

Look at this: "Nebivolol, a new third-generation ß1-selective blocker, which in addition to ß1-adrenergic receptor inhibition also increases endothelial nitric oxide (NO) release, thereby inducing peripheral vasodilatation"

And also this one: "Carvedilol:

The use of beta blockers for migraine prevention is not new. The evidence for the use of this pharmacologic class was well established with propranolol, timolol, atenolol, and nadolol. The use of novel beta blockers, such as carvedilol, for the prophylactic treatment of migraine is a new concept because it offers additional alpha-1 blocking and antioxidant properties. This nonselective alpha-1 and beta-1 antagonist reduces blood pressure by reducing peripheral vascular resistance with no alteration of heart frequency or cardiac debit.[41] The results are a very favorable adverse event profile, which may represent an appeal in migraine prevention because traditional beta blockers have limiting side effects. Of the 68 patients who completed the study, 40 (59%) experienced a 50% reduction in monthly migraine attack frequency at the third month of treatment."

Also, Angiotensin II receptor antagonists are very interesting: they block the activation of angiotensin II AT1 receptors. Blockade of AT1 receptors directly causes vasodilation, reduces secretion of vasopressin, and reduces production and secretion of aldosterone, amongst other actions. The combined effect reduces blood pressure.

Here they compare a 3rd generation beta blocker with an Angiotensin II receptor antagonist:

http://www.docguide.com/sexual-activity-hypertensive-men-treated-valsartan-or-carvedilol-crossover-study

Erectyle disfunction is a complain with betablockers, but it is not with Valsartan (angiotensin II receptor antagonist).

Take a look at this: Angiotensin II is a natural substance in your body that affects your cardiovascular system in many ways, such as by narrowing your blood vessels. This narrowing can increase your blood pressure and force your heart to work harder

Now that i think about it....i remember that after having an O, one of the symptoms is that i can feel my heart pumping harder. The pumping is quite more strong and noticeable.

Another alternative are Alpha blockers: "They relax certain muscles and help small blood vessels remain open. They work by keeping the hormone norepinephrine (noradrenaline) from tightening the muscles in the walls of smaller arteries and veins. Blocking that effect causes the vessels to remain open and relaxed. This improves blood flow and lowers blood pressure.

Because alpha blockers also relax other muscles throughout the body, these medications can help improve urine flow in older men with prostate problems."

Another alternative i can think of as now is nitric oxide supplements (NO2) taken an hour before having an O. They use to sell them for boybuilding. Finally, another one interesting could be indomethacin (it is used to treat sexual headaches), but i think someone in the forum tried it without too much success.

[Counterpoints]

I had quite a carefully thought out post about a POIS theory, asking for comments, and it seems to have been buried very quickly by intro posts, etc., and forgotten.  And before that I had had asked a question about niacinamide and it was also ignored.  This sort of thing seems to be happening lately as the number of new posters has been increasing, and the welcome posts have been getting longer, etc.

To help with the conversation in this thread, I suggest just linking to the full welcome post. For example, the new welcome could be:

"Welcome <name>,

Please see this link for a full introduction to this thread:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg364636#msg364636

We look forward to your posts!
"

And we could use tinyurl to make the url more manageable.  What do you think Demo (and others)?

[demografx]

Hello everyone,

A friend of mine has been suffering on a daily basis from physical symptoms identical to those of POIS, for about ten years already. He was diagnozed with Fibromyalgia (which has no treatment as far as I know. At least he didn't find one).

Yesterday he told me that he has been sufferring from the symptoms (I guess more than usual, he didn't elaborate) also after ejaculating, and that he believes he has POIS.

Through out the years he has had lots of tests and turned to lots of specialists who took his money and didn't really help him. When he discovered that POIS existed and that he was not alone or crazy, he turned to his doctors who dismissed his claims explaining that its all psychological and that he should see a psychologist (which he does!).

From what I read untill now, I strongly believe that there is a connection between the POIS and the Fibromyalgia.

My question is that (and thank you for reading so far! []):
Does any of you suffer from those symptoms (especially physical, but not only) also without having ejaculated? even for only a period?

TNX a lot!

Timri.

TIMRIL, there are over 300 posts here addressing fibromyalgia.

Maybe they can help:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=fibromyalgia+POIS+site:http%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=64480e3e283e02ba&biw=1045&bih=471

[demografx]

Hi,

I'm very happy some of you have had success with Niacin. Definitely I'm going to try it myself soon. But as i'm also interested in a long-term cure, i still have some questions about the allergy theory.

Basically i'd like to know if any of you tried the standard method some clinics offer in case of semen allergy:

"At the University of Cincinnati, we treat semen allergy by desensitizing women to their sexual partner's semen with injections similar to regular allergy shots. We take ejaculate from the woman's sexual partner and separate the large and small proteins. The woman is skin tested to these proteins to determine which ones she react to. She is then desensitized over several hours to the proteins she reacted to in the skin test. The injections are given every 10 to 15 minutes at increasing concentrations. After the desensitization has been completed, ejaculate is instilled into the woman's vagina. If she has no symptoms, then the treatment has been successful."

It does not sound very different to Dr. Waldinger methods. And it can be done in a lot of clinics...

Interesting, Quasar.


We've had a number of very interesting discussions here about Dr Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati.


Here is a search on "Cincinnati" on all the previous POIS posts in this forum.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=cincinnati+POIS+site:http%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=64480e3e283e02ba&biw=1045&bih=471


And here are some results using "Bernstein" as the search criterion:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=bernstein+POIS+site:http%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=64480e3e283e02ba&biw=1045&bih=471

[daveman]

I'm in POIS too, so I could only come up with this idea for a T-shirt:






If you're curious about the above, see the discussion which starts with B_Daniel's post at:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.msg2156#msg2156   []

I got a couple of quotes for 100 T-Shirts

 [ Invalid Attachment ]


This was the most expensive. Donors could look at buying this $7.22 T-Shirt for a minimum of $100, proceeds going to NORD, something like that.

[demografx]

Demografx,

What you say makes sense to me. I believe POIS makes some kind of change to the circulatory system. One of my main symptoms is that after O, i feel a change in my scalp, heart, and abdominal veins. I don't know if POIS makes them to contract or dilate. It feels like a migraine to the whole body.

Also, under POIS, i loose my sexual potency, and become some kind of impotent. So, it makes a lot of sense that Levitra helps. It would be very nice to know if POIS either makes our blood vessels to dilatee or contract.

Then we could think of an strategy. I mean, maybe aborting that dilation, or that contraction in the first place.

If we take a look at this page: http://www.relieve-migraine-headache.com/abdominal-migraine.html

we can see beta-blockers are proposed for abdominal migraines.

Was just reading about Niacin flushes - seems to be related to what you suggest and hence reversal of effect?

"Niacin causes flushing by dilating (expanding) the blood vessels on the surface of the skin. Although this side effect of niacin is harmless, it is often severe enough for people to stop taking niacin."

Absolutely. Niacin flush seems to dilate blood vessels, so taken before orgasm, it could abort the vasocongestion an orgasm causes:

Before having an O, our blood vessels are contracted because of adrenaline, etc. When we have the O, we also have sudden local spikes in blood pressure in different areas of the body. After having the O, sometimes we get a facial flush because of histamine/serotonin, and blood vessels dilate.

¿What if our blood vessels are not enough elastic (or too much contracted) and the local spikes in blood are too high? Then, our blood vessels dilate too much. They overreact!

This is how i think the Levitra, and the Niacin flush work:

They dilate blood vessels before having an O, so the spike in blood pressure is less intense, and blood vessels don't have to overreact, they don't have to over-dilate.

I think a dilation from Levitra / Niacin flush is very different from a dilation from a sudden blood pressure spike coming from contracted blood vessels (orgasm):

In the first case, we have a dilation from nitric oxide and niacin.

In the second case, we have a dilation from an unhealthy spike, coming from blood too low in oxygen, and the key ingredients are histamine and serotonin, which are more aggresive and more prone to migraines.

So, to sum up, it makes a lot of sense that Niacin an Levitra are somehow working. We could think of more vasodilators. Not all of them are going to work, or course.

I can think of beta blockers. But they act more like preventing contraction. They are not exactly vasodilators. So, depending on the beta blocker, they could be more or less effective to us.

Take a look at this:

"The first generation of beta-blockers were non-selective, meaning that they blocked both beta-1 (β1) and beta-1 (β2) adrenoceptors. Second generation beta-blockers are more cardioselective in that they are relatively selective for β1 adrenoceptors. Note that this relative selectivity can be lost at higher drug doses. Finally, the third generation beta-blockers are drugs that also possess vasodilator actions through blockade of vascular alpha-adrenoceptors."

But remember: beta blockers don't work instantly, they need some days.

Some examples of 3rd generation beta blockers: Carvedilol, Bisoprolol, Nebivolol, Metoprolol.

Look at this: "Nebivolol, a new third-generation ß1-selective blocker, which in addition to ß1-adrenergic receptor inhibition also increases endothelial nitric oxide (NO) release, thereby inducing peripheral vasodilatation"

And also this one: "Carvedilol:

The use of beta blockers for migraine prevention is not new. The evidence for the use of this pharmacologic class was well established with propranolol, timolol, atenolol, and nadolol. The use of novel beta blockers, such as carvedilol, for the prophylactic treatment of migraine is a new concept because it offers additional alpha-1 blocking and antioxidant properties. This nonselective alpha-1 and beta-1 antagonist reduces blood pressure by reducing peripheral vascular resistance with no alteration of heart frequency or cardiac debit.[41] The results are a very favorable adverse event profile, which may represent an appeal in migraine prevention because traditional beta blockers have limiting side effects. Of the 68 patients who completed the study, 40 (59%) experienced a 50% reduction in monthly migraine attack frequency at the third month of treatment."

Also, Angiotensin II receptor antagonists are very interesting: they block the activation of angiotensin II AT1 receptors. Blockade of AT1 receptors directly causes vasodilation, reduces secretion of vasopressin, and reduces production and secretion of aldosterone, amongst other actions. The combined effect reduces blood pressure.

Here they compare a 3rd generation beta blocker with an Angiotensin II receptor antagonist:

http://www.docguide.com/sexual-activity-hypertensive-men-treated-valsartan-or-carvedilol-crossover-study

Erectyle disfunction is a complain with betablockers, but it is not with Valsartan (angiotensin II receptor antagonist).

Take a look at this: Angiotensin II is a natural substance in your body that affects your cardiovascular system in many ways, such as by narrowing your blood vessels. This narrowing can increase your blood pressure and force your heart to work harder

Now that i think about it....i remember that after having an O, one of the symptoms is that i can feel my heart pumping harder. The pumping is quite more strong and noticeable.

Another alternative are Alpha blockers: "They relax certain muscles and help small blood vessels remain open. They work by keeping the hormone norepinephrine (noradrenaline) from tightening the muscles in the walls of smaller arteries and veins. Blocking that effect causes the vessels to remain open and relaxed. This improves blood flow and lowers blood pressure.

Because alpha blockers also relax other muscles throughout the body, these medications can help improve urine flow in older men with prostate problems."

Another alternative i can think of as now is nitric oxide supplements (NO2) taken an hour before having an O. They use to sell them for boybuilding. Finally, another one interesting could be indomethacin (it is used to treat sexual headaches), but i think someone in the forum tried it without too much success.

Very interesting!

I am getting major POIS relief from testosterone.

And I also take metropolol, Levitra, and Niaspan (extended release Niacin).

I hope that I'm not over-dilating!!!

[Quasar]

Very interesting!

I am getting major POIS relief from testosterone.

And I also take metropolol, Levitra, and Niaspan (extended release Niacin).

I hope that I'm not over-dilating!!!

Great! That should be helpful. However, metropolol can cause erectile dysfuntion, while nebivolol doesn't: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17324145

I think both Nebivolol (B1 receptor blocker) and carvedilol (B1,B2 and Alpha1 blocker) are very good at Nitric Oxide Release, specially Nebivolol:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/107/21/2747.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1089860308000426

Also, the dose for Carvedilol needed is lower than metropolol: http://www.journalclub.org/2004/11/14/n20

"Nebivolol has proved to be as efficient as any other antihypertensive drugs (e.g. calcium channels blockers, angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors, and older ß-blockers. It also has a good tolerability
and fewer adverse events compared with older betablockers"

Having read some articles, i would recommend Nebivolol over other 3rd generation beta-blockers for POIS.

Carvedilol seems to be more aggressive than Nebivolol. And Metropolol seems to be less effective than the other two.

Also, Valsartan (Angiotensin II receptor antagonist) seems to be as effective as Nebivolol: http://www.dicle.edu.tr/fakulte/tip/dergi/yayin/372/01.pdf

Both, Valsartan and Nebivolol seem to improve Nitric Oxide, and have fewer side effects than others.

The natural alternative is taking L-Arginine, but i think it's not very effective.

[TIMRIL]

Hello everyone,

A friend of mine has been suffering on a daily basis from physical symptoms identical to those of POIS, for about ten years already. He was diagnozed with Fibromyalgia (which has no treatment as far as I know. At least he didn't find one).

Yesterday he told me that he has been sufferring from the symptoms (I guess more than usual, he didn't elaborate) also after ejaculating, and that he believes he has POIS.

Through out the years he has had lots of tests and turned to lots of specialists who took his money and didn't really help him. When he discovered that POIS existed and that he was not alone or crazy, he turned to his doctors who dismissed his claims explaining that its all psychological and that he should see a psychologist (which he does!).

From what I read untill now, I strongly believe that there is a connection between the POIS and the Fibromyalgia.

My question is that (and thank you for reading so far! []):
Does any of you suffer from those symptoms (especially physical, but not only) also without having ejaculated? even for only a period?

TNX a lot!

Timri.

TIMRIL, there are over 300 posts here addressing fibromyalgia.

Maybe they can help:
newbielink:http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=fibromyalgia+POIS+site:http%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=64480e3e283e02ba&biw=1045&bih=471 [nonactive]

Oh wow, tnx, I have no idea why I didn't think of doing that myself... thank you very much!

By the way, while looking for information, I found this:
newbielink:http://www.mycandidacleanse.com/could-pois-post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-be-candida/ [nonactive]
I guess you all know already what there is to know about POIS, but just in case...

[Vincent M]

I had quite a carefully thought out post about a POIS theory, asking for comments, and it seems to have been buried very quickly by intro posts, etc., and forgotten.  And before that I had had asked a question about niacinamide and it was also ignored.  This sort of thing seems to be happening lately as the number of new posters has been increasing, and the welcome posts have been getting longer, etc.

To help with the conversation in this thread, I suggest just linking to the full welcome post. For example, the new welcome could be:

"Welcome <name>,

Please see this link for a full introduction to this thread:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg364636#msg364636

We look forward to your posts!
"

And we could use tinyurl to make the url more manageable.  What do you think Demo (and others)?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

By the way the reason I personally didn't respond to your post about sex/porn addiction is because this topic was recently discussed on the other forum and I feel it is sort of a dead end theory at least for me. Besides I seriously doubt those of us who only have an orgasm once a week are addicted to porn or sex. But anyway I've already put all my thoughts on that topic into the other forum.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I had quite a carefully thought out post about a POIS theory, asking for comments, and it seems to have been buried very quickly by intro posts, etc., and forgotten.  And before that I had had asked a question about niacinamide and it was also ignored.  This sort of thing seems to be happening lately as the number of new posters has been increasing, and the welcome posts have been getting longer, etc.

To help with the conversation in this thread, I suggest just linking to the full welcome post. For example, the new welcome could be:

"Welcome <name>,

Please see this link for a full introduction to this thread:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg364636#msg364636

We look forward to your posts!
"

And we could use tinyurl to make the url more manageable.  What do you think Demo (and others)?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

By the way the reason I personally didn't respond to your post about sex/porn addiction is because this topic was recently discussed on the other forum and I feel it is sort of a dead end theory at least for me. Besides I seriously doubt those of us who only have an orgasm once a week are addicted to porn or sex. But anyway I've already put all my thoughts on that topic into the other forum.

I was going to add it is better to post something you want giving lots of attention to on the other forum. As this forum attention shiftes in the same direction it is hard to give attention to a new topic when there is still exictment about a certain topic.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I dont know who brought this up but somebody just said niacin helps their other allegy.
this supports the allergy theory of niacin. it uses up the histamine necessary to cause allergic reaction from orgasm.

[demografx]

I agree with CCconfucius that "... it is better to post something you want giving lots of attention to on the other forum. As this forum attention shiftes in the same direction it is hard to give attention to a new topic when there is still exictment about a certain topic."

Thanks, CC! []

[Guthrie]

this supports the allergy theory of niacin. it uses up the histamine necessary to cause allergic reaction from orgasm.

Check this out:
(from: http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T120793.html )

Niacin, taken orally as nicotinic acid, can produce redness, warmth, and itching over areas of the skin; this "niacin flush" usually occurs when doses of 50mg or more are taken and is a result of the release of histamine by the cells, which causes vasodilation. This reaction is harmless; it may even be helpful by enhancing blood flow to the "flushed" areas, and it lasts only 10-20 minutes. When these larger doses of niacin are taken regularly, this reaction no longer occurs because stores of histamine are reduced.

So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

But, I guess we'd have to test that -- someone for whom niacin helps their POIS would need to try taking the niacin on a regular basis (i.e. every day, rather than only on O-days), and see if the helping-effect is diminished by the regular-basis ingestion, or whether the helping-effect is still preserved.

[CertainlyPOIS]

This is a possible niacin solution for those always in pois because of NES.
If you are always in pois because NES, start using niacin at night right before going to sleep, so when you do have an NE it wont cause pois.  But inorder to prevent you from using it for a whole week ( or as long as it takes you to recover if it is over a week) start taking niacin four days after your orgasm until you heal when you do heal have an orgasm with niacin to prevent pois.   Wait four days without niacin and have an orgasm using niacin on the fourth day. That way you are not uisng niacin everyday and reducing your chances of NEs. 

*  The reason why i use four days is because that is when i start having NEs after orgasm.

[Counterpoints]

I had quite a carefully thought out post about a POIS theory, asking for comments, and it seems to have been buried very quickly by intro posts, etc., and forgotten.  And before that I had had asked a question about niacinamide and it was also ignored.  This sort of thing seems to be happening lately as the number of new posters has been increasing, and the welcome posts have been getting longer, etc.

To help with the conversation in this thread, I suggest just linking to the full welcome post. For example, the new welcome could be:

"Welcome <name>,

Please see this link for a full introduction to this thread:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg364636#msg364636

We look forward to your posts!
"

And we could use tinyurl to make the url more manageable.  What do you think Demo (and others)?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Thanks. I would like a response by Demografx about the solution to the intro post being way too long, which was indeed the main point of my above post. (The solution being a very short intro post, with a link to a longer one).  Any given page may have 3 massive intro posts on it, and very little other content.  The thread is getting very hard to read because of this, and I think we can fix this with a short intro and a link.

Along those lines, I also suggest (to everyone) when responding to a massive post, not quoting the whole post, but just quoting the relevant parts, or the first few sentences.

These two things should greatly help the readability of this thread.

By the way the reason I personally didn't respond to your post about sex/porn addiction is because this topic was recently discussed on the other forum...

Many of us do not read the other forum.... and I am sorry to hear it is hurting the ability to discuss new topics in this thread.  I do agree with CC's point, though, that the other forum is more suited to changes of topic.

Besides I seriously doubt those of us who only have an orgasm once a week are addicted to porn or sex. But anyway I've already put all my thoughts on that topic into the other forum.

I disagree, and I don't think the logic here makes that much sense...  I have orgasm less than once a week, but of course that was not always the case.  Many alcoholics, etc., will not drink alcohol for years.  That does not mean they are no longer addicted. In fact, imagine that an alcoholic DID still have alcohol once a week, rather than quitting entirely.  I am sure that would be quite a terrible experience.  If POIS is like an addiction, a problem is that we are addicted to a natural process in our bodies, which makes it very very hard to escape from.  It's not like we can say, 'OK no more orgasm or sexual stimuli ever'.  It's something that's not as much in our power.

This addiction theory seems to relate to Marnia's theory... The problem, though, is she seems to think this applies to pretty much everyone.  But I don't think POIS is just a more extreme version of what everyone experiences... I think it's something quite different.

It also relates to the neurochemical theories, which in my opinion, intuitively seems more likely than allergy/immune route.

However, I am seeing a real research immunologist soon, so I will be able to report back on that!

[Counterpoints]

So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

I don't think POIS is about histamine though.  Have antihistamines worked for anyone? 

Though perhaps it is also depleting other things involved in immune reactions..

[Quasar]

Hi,

I'm waiting for approval of my user in the new forums. Once i get that, i would like to make a post about the Circulatory System. In fact is similar to the Vasospasm theory a member has already posted.

I really believe in this theory. Keep in mind that poor blood circulation in the brain can have severe cognitive symptoms. It can even resemble allergic reactions. There are brain areas related to Sneeze, etc. And also, keep in mind that a problem in the circulatory system can also affect the liver, heart, stomach, etc, so the endocrine system becomes affected too.

Niacin flush and levitra seem to work to some members, and i think it's because it's vasodilating properties. But not all vasodilatons are going to work. We should find what are the best ones. I think, at least in theory, that Valsartan and Nebivolol are two beta-blockers that should work quite well, because the have strong vasodilating properties AND they release Nitric Oxide. They should work much better to us than propranolol, for example.

Some questions you may ask:

+ ¿Why do we have more inelastic blood vessels than normal people? The answer could be that we have these inelastic vessels only in key areas that precipitate POIS, and the problem only shows when we put our circulatory system into  a stress test (as having an O.). Also, it could be they are perfectly elastic, but they contract too much.

+ ¿Why do we have blood vessels too contracted before having an O.? The answer could be: because of a nitric oxide deficit, or because of a too high sensisivity to adrenaline, neurotransmitter imbalances, etc.

+ ¿After having an O., do our blood vessels become, ironically, too dilated? I think that Yes, because of the spike in blood pressure from the O, and the release of inflamating hormones and other substances (histamine, serotonin, etc)

Also, we can combine this circulatory strategy with an hormonal balacing strategy.

I give you an example of a regimen i would like to try: 

Niacin (before sex, and/or every day)
+
Nebivolol (every day; it needs some weeks to work)
+
Levitra (check compatibility if taken with beta-blockers)
+
Testosterone (a lot of member are in the low-normal range)
+
(Finasteride: optional) (sex can affect DHT levels). Did not work for some members
+
Bioflavonoids (take every day) (Reduces blood vessel fragility and vascular permeability): rutin, quercitin...
+
Vitamin C + Vitamin B12 + Vitamin D3 (vitamins for energy and antioxidants)

I hope you like it!

Finally, take a look at this sentence i've found:  "Vascular permeability was stimulated by a nonspecific pro-inflammatory agent (carrageenan), by drugs that disrupt endothelial cells junction (histamine, serotonin or bradykinin)".

Some Nsaids reduce vascular permeability and inflamation, like Indomethacin. But i think some members already tried it. Remember Nsaid can be tough on the stomach, so it is wise to take them with food and a stomach protector.

[demografx]

There has been a suggestion to post only the link to the welcome post when a new member introduces him/herself for the first time on NSF.  However, there will be no generalizing of our WELCOME POST. Each new member will continue to receive a warm, personal welcome.

DEMO

[demografx]

I'm in POIS too, so I could only come up with this idea for a T-shirt:






If you're curious about the above, see the discussion which starts with B_Daniel's post at:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.msg2156#msg2156   []

I got a couple of quotes for 100 T-Shirts

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This was the most expensive. Donors could look at buying this $7.22 T-Shirt for a minimum of $100, proceeds going to NORD, something like that.

The expensive one is mine. I liked the idea of the shirt pocket! []