[Guthrie]

There has been a suggestion to post only the link to the welcome post when a new member introduces him/herself for the first time on NSF.  However, there will be no generalizing of our WELCOME POST. Each new member will continue to receive a warm, personal welcome.

DEMO

Demo -- I'm a bit unclear -- couldn't you continue to give the warm, personal welcome, but one which would not need to list all of the lengthier listing of articles, google-searching, etc.  I.e. there can still be a briefer, "Welcome, [specific person], etc." but then with a link to a designated place on the new forum that lists all the specific details?  That would seem to preserve the 'personal' side, and cut down on the length.

[demografx]

Guthrie, for YOU I'll think about it. []

[demografx]

BTW, Guthrie, I also send the same message intact as a PM (Private Message). Part of the personalization _is_ the length. But I promised you I would keep thinking.

[Pharaoh]

So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

I don't think POIS is about histamine though.  Have antihistamines worked for anyone? 

Though perhaps it is also depleting other things involved in immune reactions..

I was prescribed antihistamines (Allegra 180mg/day and Cyproheptadine 4 mg/day) and not only didn't they work, but I suffered from suicidal thoughts during POIS.  I am convinced that the serotonin/dopamine levels are significantly suppressed causing the depression/brain fog/anxiety/anti-social symptoms we experience.

Regarding your previous post about masturbation addiction, this was my hypothesis before I came across this forum and POIS.  I was clearly addicted to pornography and masturbation, and similar to your experience, if I even come across an adult movie title while browsing the cable guide on tv, I immediately feel a rush and elevated heart rate.  There are a number of studies suggesting that pornography and masturbation "rewires" the brain.  The effect is mechanically similar to cocaine addiction and withdrawal.  I wonder, however, how so many men with wives are suffering from this condition.  It would be interesting to have a poll to identify how many of us at one point prior to experiencing POIS symptoms would consider ourselves addicted to masturbating to pornography.  I am seeing my Endocrinologist next Tuesday and will have a long discussion with him about Niacin and Levitra. 

[Hoping]

There has been a suggestion to post only the link to the welcome post when a new member introduces him/herself for the first time on NSF.  However, there will be no generalizing of our WELCOME POST. Each new member will continue to receive a warm, personal welcome.

DEMO

Demo -- I'm a bit unclear -- couldn't you continue to give the warm, personal welcome, but one which would not need to list all of the lengthier listing of articles, google-searching, etc.  I.e. there can still be a briefer, "Welcome, [specific person], etc." but then with a link to a designated place on the new forum that lists all the specific details?  That would seem to preserve the 'personal' side, and cut down on the length.

Long-time, no-post. At any rate, I like this idea!

[Quasar]

So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

I don't think POIS is about histamine though.  Have antihistamines worked for anyone? 

Though perhaps it is also depleting other things involved in immune reactions..

I was prescribed antihistamines (Allegra 180mg/day and Cyproheptadine 4 mg/day) and not only didn't they work, but I suffered from suicidal thoughts during POIS.  I am convinced that the serotonin/dopamine levels are significantly suppressed causing the depression/brain fog/anxiety/anti-social symptoms we experience.

About the serotonin/dopamine levels, did anyone get it tested in blood? I think so. It would be interesting to know  serotonin and dopamine blood levels before an O., and after an O.

And also, very important, to have a brain SPECT showing serotonin and dopamine levels. This is crucial. But it is difficult to justify to a doctor such an expensive technique...

[Hoping]

Hi everyone,
I recently posted my testosterone lab results in the other forum. To avoid double-posting and to encourage the use of the other forum, I'll just post the link here.

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=17.msg2262#msg2262

[FinalPanic]

On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex [nofollow]


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?

[demografx]

I like this [short Welcome Post]  idea!

Hoping (and as i mentioned to Guthrie privately), I think the welcome message needs be repeated in its entirety each time -- not only for the newbie's sake but because one never knows when a reporter or researcher will suddenly visit the site. And for the lurkers, who represent the majority of viewers here!

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!

IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

Now let's please move on to more important topics. Like POIS. Thank you!  []

[Quasar]

On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?

In migraine, vasoconstrictors are used to abort an already started migraine (triptans). Instead, vasodilators (most beta-blockers) are used to prevent them.

Remember that we had had some success with Niacin and Levitra, which have a vasodilatory action.

So, we should look for beta-blockers with a powerful vasodilatory action.

I have done some research, and Nebivolol seems to be the one that has less side effects (it does not cause erectile dysfunction). It is as effective as Metoprolol. I think Demografx is taking metoprolol, so he can tell us if it's helping. I recommended him to switch to Nebivolol.

But i don't think a beta blocker is going to be 100% of the cure. But if we combine it with Niacin, and other hormones and vitamin supplements...maybe we can have a good combo.

[Vincent M]

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!

IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

Now let's please move on to more important topics. Like POIS. Thank you!  []

I suppose I now agree with Demo for the reason that members familiar with the welcome message can simply scroll past it when they see it. It doesn't waste any time since it's not like you have to read the entire message each time you see it. Just takes maybe a second to scroll past it. But more importantly it provides new visitors all the info they need to know about the forum at a glance.

[Vincent M]

Counterpoints, I had forgotten that not everyone has time to read the other forum and I apologize for that.

It seems to me that you think POIS sufferers have at one time in each of their pasts had an above average frequency of orgasms/porn-viewing. I suppose this would have to be explored.

[demografx]

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!

IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

Now let's please move on to more important topics. Like POIS. Thank you!  []

I suppose I now agree with Demo for the reason that members familiar with the welcome message can simply scroll past it when they see it. It doesn't waste any time since it's not like you have to read the entire message each time you see it. Just takes maybe a second to scroll past it. But more importantly it provides new visitors all the info they need to know about the forum at a glance.

Thanks for the support!

[demografx]

On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?

In migraine, vasoconstrictors are used to abort an already started migraine (triptans). Instead, vasodilators (most beta-blockers) are used to prevent them.

Remember that we had had some success with Niacin and Levitra, which have a vasodilatory action.

So, we should look for beta-blockers with a powerful vasodilatory action.

I have done some research, and Nebivolol seems to be the one that has less side effects (it does not cause erectile dysfunction). It is as effective as Metoprolol. I think Demografx is taking metoprolol, so he can tell us if it's helping. I recommended him to switch to Nebivolol.

But i don't think a beta blocker is going to be 100% of the cure. But if we combine it with Niacin, and other hormones and vitamin supplements...maybe we can have a good combo.

This seems to be one of the most promising discussion directions currently.

[Starsky]

I have a feeling that Niacin Pills give me a stronger flush than Xanthinol Nicotinate.

[Quasar]

On the subject of contracting blood vessels causing headaches after male orgasm - this is something I was aware of way before hearing about POIS there's plenty on the web about it, such as:

http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/problem/headache-during-sex


Maybe it is all related and POIS is a stronger form of the same issue. But I cannot fathom the way this now works for me I am now in day four of POIS and seemingly have got slightly worse each day. Yet a week before I was fine on the day and next day was up and about at the local ice rink skating and feeling all but cured (as if by some miracle and nothing else). Alas it was not to be as POIS has had its vengance. Just does not make sense, I cannot see that I have an allergy with varying severity. I think something is triggered during orgasm and then needs to re-set - this may take a day or a week hence my experiences. Maybe the time for the blood vessels to settle back down. Just like nervous tension or panic attacks these things can last minutes or days for no good reason. I am currently so fatigued - I find a 10 minute snooze helps recharge me during the day, but a nights sleep seemingly does not? All so weird.

Probably just the ramblings of a mad man - but we all still have POIS - so who knows...............is POIS a symptom with many different causes?

In migraine, vasoconstrictors are used to abort an already started migraine (triptans). Instead, vasodilators (most beta-blockers) are used to prevent them.

Remember that we had had some success with Niacin and Levitra, which have a vasodilatory action.

So, we should look for beta-blockers with a powerful vasodilatory action.

I have done some research, and Nebivolol seems to be the one that has less side effects (it does not cause erectile dysfunction). It is as effective as Metoprolol. I think Demografx is taking metoprolol, so he can tell us if it's helping. I recommended him to switch to Nebivolol.

But i don't think a beta blocker is going to be 100% of the cure. But if we combine it with Niacin, and other hormones and vitamin supplements...maybe we can have a good combo.

This seems to be one of the most promising discussion directions currently.

Thanks demografx! So, i think it's time i start buying some of these drugs. How much niacin are you taking everyday? Do you take a little more the day you plan to have an O.?

[cornelius]

The welcome message contains important information that might be seen for the very first time, and may result in something great!
IMHO, there's no reason to shorten the welcome message.

I suppose I now agree with Demo for the reason that members familiar with the welcome message can simply scroll past it when they see it. It doesn't waste any time since it's not like you have to read the entire message each time you see it. Just takes maybe a second to scroll past it. But more importantly it provides new visitors all the info they need to know about the forum at a glance.

The welcome message is an absolutely fantastic part of the community that has built up here. I speak as someone who spends most of my life in a mental fog in which I find navigating this thread completely overwhelming. The welcome post is a great summary and place to start for people who are like me -- and it should stay that way.

On the other hand, it would be better if it were shorter, for the mere reason that it's pretty overwhelming as it is! Fewer links, for example to the Pyropeach PDF would make it easier to comprehend immediately (the PDF already has loads of other links and info). Try reading it from the perspective of someone who loses track of long sentences, paragraphs beyond 3 lines and skips beyond the post if he gets frustrated   (it took me years to realise that this was happening to me)

It seems to me that you think POIS sufferers have at one time in each of their pasts had an above average frequency of orgasms/porn-viewing. I suppose this would have to be explored.

Definitely a good idea for a poll on the other forum. Something like "When you were most active, how many times a week would you masturbate to porn". The other thing that you have to realise is that there's no established average frequency!


On another note: someone should email newbielink:http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/ [nonactive] to get us a page there! That would funnel more people suffering from POIS here.

[demografx]

How much niacin are you taking everyday?

I don't think I'm a good example. I take 500mg per day of Niaspan (extended-release niacin), along with 325 mg of aspirin to counter the flush.

I'm a bad example because:

1) I take it daily - building tolerance. Seems the ideal way for POIS is "as-needed"  dosing.

2) I _counter_  the flush. The flush seems to be necessary for POIS amelioration.

My main objective is cholesterol treatment, not POIS.

Testosterone is still my "POIS savior". Plus ADHD meds. And possibly Levitra.

[Quasar]

Guys i've got some interesting info!

The niacin flush doesn't come from histamine release. I comes from a release of plasma Prostaglandin D2 and Serotonin: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.long

Sustained-Release Niacin for prevention of migraine headaches: http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/78/6/770.full.pdf

Niacin and its derivatives act as negative feedback regulators on the kynurenine pathway, which is responsible for the conversion of tryptophan (a serotonin precursor) to nicotinic acid (niacin).
Therefore, higher plasma concentrations of niacin may shunt tryptophan into the serotonin pathway, increasing the plasma serotonin level. Low systemic and central nervous system levels of serotonin have been strongly implicated in migraine pathogenesis. During migraine attacks, there is mobilization of serotonin, as evidenced by low platelet serotonin levels and increased urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid, its primary metabolite. In addition, serotonin is a pivotal neurotransmitter involved in central antinociception, and the dorsal raphe, which is the central repository for serotonin, has been implicated as a migraine generator on the basis of elegant positron emission tomographic studies of migraine sufferers during attacks.

--> You may ask...then why SSRI and other serotonergic drugs don't work for POIS? Well, i think that even doctors don't know very well how SSRI's work, and where and how they raise serotonin levels.

In fact, i've found this:

To make sense of this divergent body of literature, it is appropriate to divide serotonin into 2 different pools in the body:

1. Peripheral serotonin, which can be measured in the bloodstream and is thought to exert an inhibitory drive on the dorsal raphe nucleus; and
2. Central nervous system serotonin, which activates blood vessels, thus triggering the trigeminal nucleus and leading to headache.
Both of these models of serotonin and headache suggest that the goal of migraine therapy is to maintain high peripheral serotonin levels--and thus high inhibition of the dorsal raphe nucleus pathway--and low central serotonin levels. This goal meshes nicely with the proposed mechanisms of action of most migraine medications. Most acute care medications are thought to work largely at the peripheral serotonin level, while the preventive headache medications and biofeedback and relaxation therapies act as serotonin antagonists at central receptor sites.

So, i really think Niacin raises peripheral serotonin, and exerts an inhibitory drive on the dorsal raphe nucleus (brain).

This does not mean that every drug that raises peripheral serotonin is going to work. Every drug is different.
 

[demografx]

Quasar, very interesting!