[horizon]

I don't think that thoughts can trigger an allergy.

It has been found that in people with multi-personality disorder, they will test positive allergic to a substance in one personality, and negative to the same substance when in their other personality.

Many doctors/medicine in general are now moving away from the old Newtonian physics that drugs are the answer to chronic problems, and more towards the quantum physics way of thinking that, the mind and energy fields are the key to chronic illness, if watch you the whole of the living matrix you'll get the idea, which is why NLP & reiki etc are good for chronic illhealth.
The Living Matrix

Anyways, it has been known since 1899 that everybody are probably allergic to their semen.

1899-1900 Sperm recognized as immunogenic (will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different area of the body) by Lansteiner (1899) and Metchinikoff, (1900)
Immune privilege in the testis
Sperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body. This has been demonstrated in experiments using rats by Lansteiner (1899) and Metchinikoff (1900) , mice and guinea pigs . The likely reason for this is that sperm first mature at puberty, after immune tolerance is established, therefore the body recognizes them as foreign and mounts an immune reaction against them. Since sperm do not die in the testis, mechanisms for their protection must exist in this organ. The blood-testis barrier is likely to contribute to the survival of sperm. However, it is believed in the field of testicular immunology that the blood-testis barrier cannot account for all immune suppression in the testis, due to (1) its incompleteness at a region called the rete testis and (2) the presence of immunogenic molecules outside the blood-testis barrier, on the surface of spermatogonia . Another mechanism which is likely to protect sperm is the suppression of immune responses in the testis . Both the suppression of immune responses and the increased survival of grafts in the testis have led to its recognition as an immunologically privileged site. Other immunologically privileged sites include the eye, brain and uterus.
http://www.reference.com/browse/testicular+immunology

[Quasar]

So, today i tried again 100mg Niacin and i had an O. 1 hour later. I was afraid to try 200mg because first i want to be comfortable with 100mg. I noticed a flush in my ears.

Niacin seemed to help with my scalp tenderness and headache after the O. This time my worst symptom was my stomach area. It's in the left abdomen, and immediately after having an O. it gets bloated and hurts. It's like having an stomach migraine or "abdominal migraine". I hate it  []

Can anyone confirm this abdominal pain and bloating? Specially in the left area?

Quasar, is this pain in the stomach new, just with the Niacin?

I often get pains in the abdomen, I have the feeling they originate in the lower abdomen area (above and to the side of the prostate) with reflections that appear higher up. In my case they're mostly on the right.

Daveman, it's not new. I always get abdominal pain and bloating after having an O. Niacin seemed to help a little with the scalp and headache, but it didn't help with the stomach pain.

In fact, there's a condition called "abodminal migraine", because the stomach also has neurotransmitters and is connected to the brain.

The pain is in the center of the stomach and the left side, behind the ribs. I can feel more pain if i press that area. It gets quite bloated.

I ALWAYS get it with Pois. And it's always the same kind of pain.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Even here in Chile believe it or not CCconfucious there is a doctor doing desensitization. For any Chileans, send me a PM and I can get you the information.

Looking for Niacin is a nother situation. I found a 300mg gel cap with Vitamin C. They say that this is ALL there is made here in Chile. Sounds like a rare bird. Didn't buy it yet, it cost 20 bucks for 60 capsules. 300 mg is a lot and being a gel cap, it might be hard to divide. If it where dividable, it would be 180 doses. Still kind of expensive.

And I don't know what effect Vit C would have. Probably none negative.

I'm going to see if there is some other make.

 

Now that is what i call hope. are you going to see him or is he to far away.
why cant you order niacin of online.

[daveman]

I don't think that thoughts can trigger an allergy.

Yes and that's the whole point. Even if the thought itself activated some physiological processes resulting in an autoimmune response, it is clear, that this would happened during masturbation without ejaculating as well. But Dr. Waldinger claims, that masturbation without ejaculating does not bring POIS.

Dr. Waldinger isn't the only one involved in the studies. The Dr. Waldinger studies are potentially not complete but that doesn't rule out his hypothesis. One can have an allery (autoimmune response ) to semen or a component of it, so in some cases it may be sperm and in others it may be some protien of semen. All elements of semen are NORMALLY pretected by the blood barrier. If that barrier is somehow breached any one of several components could enter into autoimmune processes.

There is more than one very respected doctor working on solid proposals for this hypothesis.

For those of you who are new to the forum, be advised that JRD advocates a line of unsupported logic inconducive to advancement of the POIS cause.

[daveman]

I get POIS from excitement all alone.
Different hypothesis :
- i'm allergic to my pre seminal fluid (that doesn't exclude the possibility of being allergic to my sperm)
- excitement trigger sperm mixing, that could be eliminated later in urine
- this is not an allergy

Well, take a look at this quote: “They didn’t feel ill when they masturbated without ejaculating…, but as soon as the semen came from the testes …they became ill, sometimes within a few minutes.”, which is exactly, what Dr. Waldinger said and what was paraphrased in various articles.

It is counterintuitive for me to think, that an isolated sexual fantasy or getting an arousal would cause allergic reaction rather than physical masturbation (which is induced by sexual desire) without ejaculation itself.

I don't think that thoughts can trigger an allergy.

It doesn't seem logical at all! But one is not allergic to the thought! One is allergic to other components which can be stimulated by the thought. Even the theory that withdrawl mechanisms or psychological influences can produce imbalances implies that thoughts alone can produce powerful negative effect to the body.

But, this forum has completely accepted that POIS is NOT a psychosomatic illness. It hasn't completely accepted that it is an autoimmune based illness, but every day there is more and more compelling evidence which even demostrates a very real support for heavy cognitive effects as a result of key neurotransmitter depletion caused by consumtion of precursors involved in their production. See: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0

And important researchers in the field, have even demostrated that conditions such as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and likewise it can be shown Sexual Exhaustion, are byproducts of the autoimmune beating imposed by POIS, rather than causes of our malidy in themselves.

[victor.kons]

Powdered Niacin Report.

I've tried to use manually powdered Niacin Acid tablets this time. The dose was 200mg. After taking powdered niacin the flush happened in 5 minutes. Interesting enough that this time I felt also the second wave of flush, about in 20 mins. The O happened in 25 minutes after taking niacin. No POIS symptoms at the first and second day. Powdered niacin felt like a better solution for the stomach compared to non-powdered version - no negative feelings about it in the stomach area.

Warning! Niacin in high doses might make a damage to your liver, please consult with your doctor before trying to take it.

Victor

[Quasar]

In fact i think my stomach issue with Pois is getting worse, because lately besides the discomfort and bloating, i also experience some numbness in my belly and stomach area. It's like the kind of scary numbness that you get when you can't feel your hand, you know? It lasts few minutes and goes away, but it may give a clue of what's happening.

[GoingCrazy]

I just wanted to say that lately i have been taking no vitamins whatsoever and I actually feel a lot better than I have been while I was on vitamins, this led me to stop taking vitamins completely.  I used to take vitamin B and calcium magnesium a lot, and all I can say that I think it really screws up your system.  Its like your body expects to get that vitamin in a pill and instead of a constant flow of it, its more of of huge spike, than a low opposite affect.  This is just my perspective because I feel a lot better not taking any vitamins.

[GoingCrazy]

I don't think that thoughts can trigger an allergy.

It has been found that in people with multi-personality disorder, they will test positive allergic to a substance in one personality, and negative to the same substance when in their other personality.

Many doctors/medicine in general are now moving away from the old Newtonian physics that drugs are the answer to chronic problems, and more towards the quantum physics way of thinking that, the mind and energy fields are the key to chronic illness, if watch you the whole of the living matrix you'll get the idea, which is why NLP & reiki etc are good for chronic illhealth.
The Living Matrix

Anyways, it has been known since 1899 that everybody are probably allergic to their semen.

1899-1900 Sperm recognized as immunogenic (will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different area of the body) by Lansteiner (1899) and Metchinikoff, (1900)
Immune privilege in the testis
Sperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body. This has been demonstrated in experiments using rats by Lansteiner (1899) and Metchinikoff (1900) , mice and guinea pigs . The likely reason for this is that sperm first mature at puberty, after immune tolerance is established, therefore the body recognizes them as foreign and mounts an immune reaction against them. Since sperm do not die in the testis, mechanisms for their protection must exist in this organ. The blood-testis barrier is likely to contribute to the survival of sperm. However, it is believed in the field of testicular immunology that the blood-testis barrier cannot account for all immune suppression in the testis, due to (1) its incompleteness at a region called the rete testis and (2) the presence of immunogenic molecules outside the blood-testis barrier, on the surface of spermatogonia . Another mechanism which is likely to protect sperm is the suppression of immune responses in the testis . Both the suppression of immune responses and the increased survival of grafts in the testis have led to its recognition as an immunologically privileged site. Other immunologically privileged sites include the eye, brain and uterus.
http://www.reference.com/browse/testicular+immunology

referring to your quote about the people already being allergic to semen:

Thanks that's what I needed to see.  when I think of sperm allergy I think of sneezing, runny nose, etc. not the mental affects.

[daveman]

Even though Niacin / XN / vitamin B3 seems to be working well for most, it has it's side effects. The flush is uncomfortable for some, prolonged use could do damage to the liver, which should be monitored, and others, for combinations of other drugs they may be taking or certain other physical problems can't even take it.

But what is more important is what it points to. At risk of being repetitive, "A failure is not a failure with good data, and success is not a success without".

It seems, if properly taken, at minimal doses and ONLY just before orgasm, the risks are minimized, and it works fairly well for a good percentage of us.

But it is a big step in moving towards confirmation of potential autoimmune causes for severe cognitive symptoms. For those who do not believe that an "allergy" can make you feel "out of it", "depressed", even "suicidal", the effects that niacin has over the reduction of symptoms points to the mechanism which causes those symptoms.

It's really hard to have an intuitive feel for what is causing a cognitive disorder, because the very part of you that is "screwed up" is the part that generates that perspective.

But when you feel niacin working, it's evident. Where once there was hell, it is now smooth. You wait for the bottom to fall out, but it doesn't.

For sure, you are not CURED. But the evidence is there, both in the flesh AND in th data.

[baboo]

Hi everyone. I've posted on here briefly some time ago but not much since. I kind of avoided thinking much about POIS as I have other issues going on in my life.

My POIS was triggered by starting on an SSRI medication. I don't know how or why, but I never noticed having this problem prior to taking it. I take Escitalopram. I also know of someone who took Citalopram who suffered brainfog after orgasm.

My symptoms are mainly attention difficulties, difficulty focusing, aswell as motivation problems. It is very hard to be around people when in this state. I get minor body aches too.
I think in my case it may be connected to the SSRI depleting my dopamine levels, which get further depleted after orgasm. Just my guess.

So, from what I can see reading the last few pages, niacin seems popular? Can this be taken after an orgasm?

[makrofag]

But it may be a big step in moving towards confirmation of potential autoimmune causes for severe cognitive symptoms. For those who do not believe that an "allergy" can make you feel "out of it", "depressed", even "suicidal", the effects that niacin has over the reduction of symptoms may point to the mechanism which maybe cause those symptoms.

Just a little correction.

[Quasar]

Hi everyone. I've posted on here briefly some time ago but not much since. I kind of avoided thinking much about POIS as I have other issues going on in my life.

My POIS was triggered by starting on an SSRI medication. I don't know how or why, but I never noticed having this problem prior to taking it. I take Escitalopram. I also know of someone who took Citalopram who suffered brainfog after orgasm.

My symptoms are mainly attention difficulties, difficulty focusing, aswell as motivation problems. It is very hard to be around people when in this state. I get minor body aches too.
I think in my case it may be connected to the SSRI depleting my dopamine levels, which get further depleted after orgasm. Just my guess.

So, from what I can see reading the last few pages, niacin seems popular? Can this be taken after an orgasm?

Hi Babou! I also took for 6 months Escitalopram. My Pois before taking the drug was negligible. In fact, i didn't know i had Pois before taking the SSRI.

But thinking about it, i remember i was having brain fog and low energy issues for some years before taking the SSRI. So, it seems i already had Pois.

However, i also think Escitalopram made it much worse. I remember when i was under Escitalopram i was nearly impossible for me to reach an orgasm.

I think it may not be only related to dopamine, because SSRI's modify more neurotransmitters, not just dopamine.

Who knows, maybe the issue is with serotonin. SSRI's may have caused to deplete your serotonin levels post-SSRI.

So, if you really want to check if that is the issue, you could talk to your doctor, and try some drug to reverse the SSRI effect.

Maybe something similar to Wellbutrin, Requip, or serotonin antagonists. Or maybe something different that increases serotonin, like MAOI's.

But please take care, and always talk to your doctor. Some drugs are dangerours and can have side effects.

Aso, a blood test about neurotransmitters could be of some help.

[daveman]

But it may be a big step in moving towards confirmation of potential autoimmune causes for severe cognitive symptoms. For those who do not believe that an "allergy" can make you feel "out of it", "depressed", even "suicidal", the effects that niacin has over the reduction of symptoms may point to the mechanism which maybe cause those symptoms.

Just a little correction.

That's fine if you want to see I that way! I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Pharaoh]

Niacin seems to be working for me.  I started taking 100 mg in the morning yesterday.  Made me agressive and sexually aroused.  Had an O, then took 200 mg.  Had another O.  Not 100% by any means, but definitely feeling better than I would under the circumstances.  We'll see what tomorrow brings. 

A few questions:

1.  Many of us were normal at one point, and then experienced POIS.  Sometimes the development was gradual.  Some have identified specific substances that maybe the trigger, e.g. Animus's herbal male enhancement and baboo's Escitalopram.  So, the question is, how did they become allergic to their own semen?  I suppose I have trouble with idea that one can suddenly become allergic to their own semen.  If it was a birth disorder, then it would be more acceptable.  But, the idea that SSRI's or other neurochemical altering substances can "trigger" POIS leads me to believe there is more to it than a very intense allergic reaction.

2. The quote Horizon provided from reference.com is fascinating.  It basically states that all people can be allergic to their own semen: "Sperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body."  This raises the question of whether intradermal tests actually tell us anything.  Furthermore, as many have pointed out, and as one allergy dr. my endocrinologist phoned during my appointment immediately identified, there is no control group in Waldinger's work.  According to the research cited, the photos Habibou shared do not show anything unexpected. 

3.  The symptoms of sexual exhaustion seem to be very similar, if not identical, to those of POIS.  This may also explain why multiple O's will lead to more severe POIS symptoms.  Simply because many people can have multiple O's in one day without any consequences does not rule out that some can become extremely fatigued after one.  But, I do believe there is more to POIS than just exhaustion.  I would like more investigation into the condition of the blood-testis barrier and the rete testis in POIS sufferers.  Could it be that we have damaged this mechanism?  This may explain why some people develop POIS after years of normality.  But, why would SSRI's or herbal male enhancements lead to this?  Maybe they are red herrings.  Or, they effected the mechanism in a way that made it more vulnerable to damage. 

My endocrinologist can not make sense of why anti-histamines have no effect whatsoever.  He's gone so far as to recommend I make the trip to Holland.  He also recommended I see Dr. Arthur Burnett.  He's a big shot urologist at John's Hopkins.  Let's see what he thinks. 

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[EDS]

I have a question for everyone!!

If a very respected medical institution approached you and offered you a magic pill that would cure you of this hideous disease called POIS, would you pay $100, $1,000, or even $10,000 for it?!!
OF COURSE YOU WOULD!!!
I certainly would pay as much as possible to be able to live a normal life - be able to interact, feel good, enjoy intimate time with my wife, not have achy joints or worry about NE's, etc., etc.

The way I figure it - There are at least 350 of us (I think many more) viewing this site on a regular basis. If each of us gave only $100, we would have the necessary funding to start the NORD study. Some of us have already given or pledged more, so even if it is only $50, I think we can get there. Think about it - for less than the cost of a nice meal out, we may find relief from misery!

NORD may very well offer the "magic pill" of which I spoke! We will never know if we don't take a small leap of faith and support ourselves to get the necessary funding. A lot of the questions and speculation we discuss here will be answered when we get a world class institution like NORD on our side.

So PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, give what you can to the fund. We simply have to support ourselves... so let's start today! We will surely benefit!! And we all know how much better our quality of life will be if we can beat this plague!!!

It is very easy to give with a credit card. Just click on the link below and donate for the betterment of us all.
https://rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3 [nofollow]

To quote a famous advertising slogan "JUST DO IT"

[horizon]

everyone dont forget the Niacin poll at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=200.0

[daveman]

Niacin seems to be working for me.  I started taking 100 mg in the morning yesterday.  Made me agressive and sexually aroused.  Had an O, then took 200 mg.  Had another O.  Not 100% by any means, but definitely feeling better than I would under the circumstances.  We'll see what tomorrow brings. 

A few questions:

1.  Many of us were normal at one point, and then experienced POIS.  Sometimes the development was gradual.  Some have identified specific substances that maybe the trigger, e.g. Animus's herbal male enhancement and baboo's Escitalopram.  So, the question is, how did they become allergic to their own semen?  I suppose I have trouble with idea that one can suddenly become allergic to their own semen.  If it was a birth disorder, then it would be more acceptable.  But, the idea that SSRI's or other neurochemical altering substances can "trigger" POIS leads me to believe there is more to it than a very intense allergic reaction.

2. The quote Horizon provided from reference.com is fascinating.  It basically states that all people can be allergic to their own semen: "Sperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body."  This raises the question of whether intradermal tests actually tell us anything.  Furthermore, as many have pointed out, and as one allergy dr. my endocrinologist phoned during my appointment immediately identified, there is no control group in Waldinger's work.  According to the research cited, the photos Habibou shared do not show anything unexpected. 

3.  The symptoms of sexual exhaustion seem to be very similar, if not identical, to those of POIS.  This may also explain why multiple O's will lead to more severe POIS symptoms.  Simply because many people can have multiple O's in one day without any consequences does not rule out that some can become extremely fatigued after one.  But, I do believe there is more to POIS than just exhaustion.  I would like more investigation into the condition of the blood-testis barrier and the rete testis in POIS sufferers.  Could it be that we have damaged this mechanism?  This may explain why some people develop POIS after years of normality.  But, why would SSRI's or herbal male enhancements lead to this?  Maybe they are red herrings.  Or, they effected the mechanism in a way that made it more vulnerable to damage. 

My endocrinologist can not make sense of why anti-histamines have no effect whatsoever.  He's gone so far as to recommend I make the trip to Holland.  He also recommended I see Dr. Arthur Burnett.  He's a big shot urologist at John's Hopkins.  Let's see what he thinks. 

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Pharaoh,

A good post, with reassonable doubts. I think you basically answer point 1 with point 3.

And, I think as you do, that we need more on the blood-testes-brain barrier.

It is almost assumed that the barrier is inpenertrable, and so, for that reason many experts discount the hypothesis.

The whole area of vasectomies and especially reversals demonstrates this. If the blood testes barrier were not so solid, these things would not be possible. But when you think about it, vasectomy side effects and reversal side effects only have a history of about 45 yrs. Sounds like a lot, but if we take my case as an example for instance: I had a vasectomy for 21 yrs, before I had a reversal, and then only after about 10 yrs I started to have POIS.

For things the doctor said, 5 yrs of vasectomy before a reversal is nothing, but 20 yrs is a different story for reasons of anti-body development and damages to the system that might result. Later once the reversal is done, there is a different and stronger reaction that causes damage. Also this may take several years to eventually weaken the barrier.

So there isn't a large history supporting the real resilience of the barrier. Few have both the vasectomy AND the reversal, and few have had the combination for 30 or 40 yrs, so any number would be low, and most likely those that show, are covered as a result of any attempt to cover the doctors' butts.

So it is rare..... but so is POIS.

Dr. Goldmeier, who is a good friend of POIS, and is very well respected, saw CFS (similar to Sexual Exhaustion) in Habibou as the result of the beating that POIS was imposing on his system.

What beating? He apparantly believes that it is allergy (autoimmune), but it could be something else. If I had to believe a doctor with Dr. Goldmeier's credenciales and experience over a local endocrinologist, guess who I'm going to go with?

As far as antihistamines, I've tried them, as have a couple of others, and I can't say they haven't had no effect whatsoever. For sure, they may only provide temporary and light relief, maybe as good as no effect, but there are many reasons for that. POIS is not just a low grade "type I" sniffles allergy. One member has found a couple of stronger antihistamines that help him quite a bit. And there are types of antihistamines, for H1, H2 etc.

The attack (if we can permit an immune system attack for the moment) is heavy. More than pollen in the air. It's living critteres in the blood. But even so, after orgasm, the normal person even emits histamines, naturally. Heavy histamine requirements an a fatigued system (or perhaps even normal histimine requirements on a failed system) will leave depletions of the precursors to elements that we need to think properly and concentrate and be incentivated.

Perhaps this is why we confuse POIS with CFS or S/E. Yes the symptoms are very similar, but in our case POIS leads to the others, lasts an average of 6 days and doesn't recuperate with pure abstention. With abstention it can temporarily be easier on isolated "Os" following the abstention but comes back to "normal" after just a few. This temporary and slight recuperation is probably because the CFS or S/E consequences of POIS are relieved.

[Vincent M]

"Saw palmetto is used by natural health practitioners to treat a variety of ailments in men and women, such as testicular inflammation, urinary tract inflammation, coughs, and respiratory congestion. It is also used to strengthen the thyroid gland, balance the metabolism, stimulate appetite, and aid digestion."

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/saw+palmetto

Since saw palmetto makes my testicles much less tender and takes away the burning feeling that usually accompanies urination, these facts provide evidence of actual inflammation in my body resulting from orgasm. Saw palmetto also reduces the bloating I have during POIS and makes bowel movements less painful which is evidence that POIS causes my intestines to become inflamed or my digestion to become hindered in some way.

[B_Daniel]

"Saw palmetto is used by natural health practitioners to treat a variety of ailments in men and women, such as testicular inflammation, urinary tract inflammation, coughs, and respiratory congestion. It is also used to strengthen the thyroid gland, balance the metabolism, stimulate appetite, and aid digestion."

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/saw+palmetto

Since saw palmetto makes my testicles much less tender and takes away the burning feeling that usually accompanies urination, these facts provide evidence of actual inflammation in my body resulting from orgasm. Saw palmetto also reduces the bloating I have during POIS and makes bowel movements less painful which is evidence that POIS causes my intestines to become inflamed or my digestion to become hindered in some way.

I'm glad to hear it's helping you.  There are 3 glands that produce the seminal fluid.  The seminal vescicles, cowpers, and the prostate.  The seminal vescicles and the prostate produce 90% of it.  Saw Palmetto helps to shrink the prostate.  Our pois is quite possibly caused by one of those glands... so it's makes sense by me that our pois is helped by shrinking the prostate