[urano75]

Hi all

I had adeficiency of v. d3, but now after treatment my d3 balance is normal,and i still in pois,
so v.d3 has no effect on pois.

For you. There is no guarantee that we all have the same thing.

that's true, but same thing happened to me meteo.  i still take vitamin D because i don't want it to be low, but didn't help my pois.

If one is D3 deficient, as proved by labs, and the right sun exposure doesn't help or is not possible, then D3 supplementation is said to be beneficial for many reasons (calcium metabolism, immune system/autoimmunity, seasonal mood disorders,...). That's why D3 should be a basic supplement for most. If there's an imbalance, it must be rectified, and this is a very common one. That doesn't mean one will have to take it expecting to have specific symptoms cured. It could happen or not, there might be hundreds of other factors in play...

[urano75]

Urano, a possible explanation for your lack of flush could be explained by the niacin flush test. herman introduced me to this:

"One way you can test your histamine levels is to buy some nicotinic acid (the niacin that causes the flush) in 50 mg. dose. If you have high histamine levels then you will experience a flush from only 50 mg. dose. If it takes 100 mg. to cause you to flush then you have normal (or balanced) histamine levels. If it takes from 150 mg. to 250 mg. dose of niacin to flush then you have low histamine levels."

Daniel, thanks for the tip. I'm pretty sure I have a tendency to high histamine (allergies) and can't figure out why I shouldn't get a flush after 500mg of nicotinic acid, which would be more than enough even for low histamine people... it must be something either in the way I metabolize it, or some interference with other meds/supplements I'm taking...

[Vincent M]

I doubt I could flush only three hours after eating even at 500mg. About a 10 hour fast, maybe 8 or 9 hours, is an absolute necessity for me, which is why I rarely use niacin. However it does seem like most others among us don't require that long of a fast so it's possible it is the b-complex I believe you said you were taking that is somehow making it more difficult to flush.

[urano75]

I doubt I could flush only three hours after eating even at 500mg. About a 10 hour fast, maybe 8 or 9 hours, is an absolute necessity for me, which is why I rarely use niacin. However it does seem like most others among us don't require that long of a fast so it's possible it is the b-complex I believe you said you were taking that is somehow making it more difficult to flush.

Yes, I understand the required fasting time is individual... about the B-complex/methylfolate/methylcobalamine - are any of these, or other factors increasing methylation (TMG, methionine...), known to hinder a niacin flush or make niacin useless for this purpose?

[Vincent M]

a)Tablet Palsinuron   1-1-1 After food.
b) Kamdudha Ras      2-0-2 Before food.
c)Krumi Kuthar Ras   2-0-2 After food
d) Pathyadi Ghanavati 2-0-2 After food.
e) Amla Juice - 30 ml of amla juice daily after wakeup with 30 ml of water. 


Further, he told that some of the medicines listed above to be strictly taken under supervision of the doctor as some should be taken only for two months. 

Nathan, are you sure you're taking Krumi Kuthar Ras and not Krimi Kuthar Ras? I couldn't find much about Krumi Kuthar Ras in a quick google search, but I did find that Krimi Kuthar Ras contains mercury and is therefore toxic(permanent nerve damage, etc.)

Here's my source:
Krimikuthar Ras ingredients, how to make:
Karpura – Camphor – Cinnamomum camphora – 80 g
10 g fine powder of each of
Indrayava – Connessi seed – Holarrhena antidysenterica
Trayamana – Gentiana kurroo
Ajamoda – Ajowan (fruit) – Trachyspermum roxburghianum
Vidanga – False black pepper – Embelia ribes
Shuddha Hingula – Purified and processed Cinnabar (Mercury compound)
Shuddha Vatsanabha – Purified Aconitum ferox
Nagakeshara – Mesua ferrea
Juice extract of Vijaya – Bhanga – Cannabis sativa – quantity sufficient for grinding for one day
Seed powder of Palasha – Butea monosperma – 150 g
Mushakarni – quantity sufficient for grinding.
Brahmi – Thyme leaved gratiola (whole plant) – Bacopa monnieri – juice extract quantity sufficient for grinding.

http://ayurmedinfo.com/2012/07/26/krimi-kuthar-ras-benefits-dosage-ingredients-side-effects/

This might be why your doctor said it's not safe to take for more than 2 months, but if this is the stuff you're taking then in my opinion it's not safe to take period.

[Vincent M]

Yes, I understand the required fasting time is individual... about the B-complex/methylfolate/methylcobalamine - are any of these, or other factors increasing methylation (TMG, methionine...), known to hinder a niacin flush or make niacin useless for this purpose?

The B3 in your b-complex would be the most likely culprit I think since tolerance to the flush seems well known at least with extended niacin usage. I'm not sure if any of the other supplements would affect it.

[B_Daniel]

.....This might be why your doctor said it's not safe to take for more than 2 months, but if this is the stuff you're taking then in my opinion it's not safe to take period.

Good little quote by Philipus Aureolus Paracelsus, 16th century toxicologist- "Poison is in everything and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy."

[Prancer]

So, I'd like to know.  Have you experienced reduced symptoms, especially cognitive ones, from being sick?  And, do you get sick less, the same, or more than others?

I also rarely get sick since getting POIS. Getting sick seems to temporarily reduce my symptoms, but it might be because they're overpowered by fever/weakness, which feels just as bad.

(The other day I wasn't sick in that sense, but I took some zinc and niacin at night & upon waking up in the morning I was puking my brains out for about 2 hours. I've had nausea before when I took zinc/niacin together but never that bad. So now I avoid that and take zinc separately and after eating something.)

[thereishope]

Hello fellow pois sufferers! I have this theory that the intensity of pois symptoms depends on how the O was done as well how many times it was done in that same period. The reason behind my theory is that having an O through watching porn on your own may cause a huge spike in dopamine before orgasm and a huge drop in dopamine after it therefore it may make the pois symtoms worst. However having sex with a partner has a more of emotional aspect to it and less of a dopamine rush that someone watching porn (especially those addicted to porn) might get.
Secondly as to how many times you have an O; that theory is simply behind the idea that too much of one thing is never good so basically if we abuse the O in one period may cause more intense pois symptoms then having only one O.

I am basically trying to find ways to deal with this disorder and optimize life by reducing the intensity of the down time.

What are your thoughts on this?

[LAPOISSE2]

Hi, There is hope;

It's funny, I was just writing about dopamine in the other forum ; bellow is my though of the day thats are linked to yours

This research is amazing : http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress

Did not find a better match with POIS ; fatigue, anxiety, social disorder and cognitive impairment that come and goes back within days ;

Orgasm = Dopamine VS prolactin ; What if prolactin wins by KO because raise for 1 hour only(non detectable) to the sky ? How long would dopamine need to go back to it's initial level ?

My prolactin like others is high, we had several hyperprolactinemia here(even adenoma)

Junk food cause low dopamine, stress cause low dopamine(see the vicious circle here), SSRI are also involved in dopamine reuptake inhibition, work for while and make symtoms worse(my story), coffe also.

Dopamine and testosterone are friends ; both high are both low

Is anybody tried to boost dopamine : soft way is mucuna pruriens / less soft ways are levodopa are dopamine agonist like bromocriptine(Coreeman tried that apparently but kinda disappeared from the forum then) ?

The theory is not new in here : https://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/test-page/orgasm-induced-catecholamine-imbalance-via-pituitary-dysfunction

[chris 18]

Hello fellow pois sufferers! I have this theory that the intensity of pois symptoms depends on how the O was done as well how many times it was done in that same period. The reason behind my theory is that having an O through watching porn on your own may cause a huge spike in dopamine before orgasm and a huge drop in dopamine after it therefore it may make the pois symtoms worst. However having sex with a partner has a more of emotional aspect to it and less of a dopamine rush that someone watching porn (especially those addicted to porn) might get.
Secondly as to how many times you have an O; that theory is simply behind the idea that too much of one thing is never good so basically if we abuse the O in one period may cause more intense pois symptoms then having only one O.

I am basically trying to find ways to deal with this disorder and optimize life by reducing the intensity of the down time.

What are your thoughts on this?

I 'll have to agree totally with you..I 've come to the conclusion that 2 or 3 orgasms make me feel a lot worse and for a longer period of time than one..And also that watching porn can make your symptoms much worse..but only because you last longer so you can enjoy,i believe..and when your lasting longer you will notice that before reaching an O some other pre-orgasm fluids are ejaculated and i believe that those fluids makes the POIS symptoms worser than having a quick orgasm..Thats my opinion because this is the way that happens to me at least..You could experiment too and see what is better for you..

[urano75]

Hello fellow pois sufferers! I have this theory that the intensity of pois symptoms depends on how the O was done as well how many times it was done in that same period. The reason behind my theory is that having an O through watching porn on your own may cause a huge spike in dopamine before orgasm and a huge drop in dopamine after it therefore it may make the pois symtoms worst. However having sex with a partner has a more of emotional aspect to it and less of a dopamine rush that someone watching porn (especially those addicted to porn) might get.
Secondly as to how many times you have an O; that theory is simply behind the idea that too much of one thing is never good so basically if we abuse the O in one period may cause more intense pois symptoms then having only one O.

I am basically trying to find ways to deal with this disorder and optimize life by reducing the intensity of the down time.

What are your thoughts on this?

I agree on several points. The more frequent the Os, the worse the symptoms. I try not to do it more often than once per week for this reason.

Secondly, my symptoms match dopamine depletion, even though I don't think it's all to it. I'm currently trying to use very high doses of L-Tyrosine as directed by my doctor to see if it makes a difference. Maybe it does a bit for cognitive/emotional symptoms, it really doesn't much for flu-like ones.

Also my prolactin hasn't proved very high in labs a couple of days after sex. I guess an after-sex spike is natural, the problem is a constantly high value. I was told that prolactin can get out of range secondarily to other endocrine issues, like thyroid issues.

It is told that addictive behaviors in general are correlated to low dopamine: porn, coffee, gambling, stimulating activities, drugs, possibly smoking are a way to temporarily raise dopamine levels to get a sense of reward, which is eventually followed by some low. Dopamine is the motivator neurotransmitter.

I think it is perfectly natural to have a low and a dopamine depletion after an O. Healthy males have also refractory periods. Moreover, it is also probably unavoidable to have a longer recovery time as you get older, one can't have the same efficient system as at age 18. Sex is expensive in terms of body resources, and this is natural.
What it's not healthy is when normal post-sex lows become extreme, open the gate to a number of problems and require a too long recovery period.

When I had a partner obviously sex was a more complete and rewarding experience, but it sadly eventually lead to the same physical problems as masturbating or watching porn. So let's not just blame masturbation and maybe feel "guilty" for it, when done with moderation and awareness it shouldn't create the problems we have. Porn addiction, and generally sex addiction, is a different thing; as any addictive and compulsive behavior can get out of control and become a destructive habit.

In other words I would be satisfied now if I could have sex once or twice a week and feel good. I don't ask to return to my adolescent's habits, when masturbating several times a day was the rule (and possibly opened the way to this problem, I sometimes wonder?).

[LAPOISSE2]

Hi,

I've also been trying Tyrosine(about 1g/day) without notable efficiency ; Look at how works levodopa drugs for parkinson ; it's pretty complicated to have dopamine directly usable for your brain ;We could have tons of tyrosine, even Ldopa in the system, but nothing usable in the brain ;

My next exploration is to have my blood and 24h urine catecholamine tested ; I need to find the good moment to test that ; I guess a good scientific research with systematic methodology is the only way to have certainty.Anyways it's amazazing that if you deplete somebody's dopamine who is perfectly normal, you basicly obtain a POISED person.
 
I believe that if everything startt or is notably triggered by orgasm(or sexual arousal), we have to start looking at what happen chemicaly/physicaly in that moment ; dopamine/prolactin/cytokine are an answer.

About flu likes symtoms, I don't have much, but as NSAIDS make me fell better(others also included persons that avoid inflammatory foods), I guess we could have an inflammatory response to orgasm ; there is an other interesting link between prolactin and inflammation
Flu likes symtoms are maybe just inflammation reaction.

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319167

[urano75]

Hi,

I've also been trying Tyrosine(about 1g/day) without notable efficiency ; Look at how works levodopa drugs for parkinson ; it's pretty complicated to have dopamine directly usable for your brain ;We could have tons of tyrosine, even Ldopa in the system, but nothing usable in the brain ;

My next exploration is to have my blood and 24h urine catecholamine tested ; I need to find the good moment to test that ; I guess a good scientific research with systematic methodology is the only way to have certainty.Anyways it's amazazing that if you deplete somebody's dopamine who is perfectly normal, you basicly obtain a POISED person.
 
I believe that if everything startt or is notably triggered by orgasm(or sexual arousal), we have to start looking at what happen chemicaly/physicaly in that moment ; dopamine/prolactin/cytokine are an answer.

About flu likes symtoms, I don't have much, but as NSAIDS make me fell better(others also included persons that avoid inflammatory foods), I guess we could have an inflammatory response to orgasm ; there is an other interesting link between prolactin and inflammation
Flu likes symtoms are maybe just inflammation reaction.

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319167

I've been loading 20/30g L-Tyrosine per day for the last 2 weeks, as directed by my doctor, with no noticeable effect. I'll have to try mucuna but I suspect it won't make a big difference at this point. I remind you that I've been on SSRI for 11 years, with few breaks. That might have screwed up some balance in dopamine synthesis. Also it can be related poor absorption of tyrosine and nutrients in general (history of gut issues, gluten/casein sensitivity) or poor conversion due to reduced enzymatic activity (metal toxicity, metabolic acidosis).

Urine test might be interesting, maybe not necessarily indicative of how much dopamine is in the brain and how quickly it's replaced after depletion I guess.

Flu-like symptoms (muscular soreness, colds) for me are much worse than cognitive ones. I am more and more convinced they are not just caused by an inflammatory response mimicing and infection, but that they are caused by *real* recurring viral infections.
I had a time in my early 20s when I got lots of unusual infections: toxoplasmosis (not a virus), mononucleosis (Epstein-Barr virus = EBV). Actually since those times I've always felt chronically sick, more than before I mean. I believe this plays a role in my chronic-fatigue issues and, together with allergies, has been a burden to my adrenals/thyroid, which on its turn makes one prone to inflammatory/infective conditions.

It's not uncommon to have EBV or CMV (herpes like viruses) in the body. The point is not much that those viruses are there, but rather why my immune system lets them reactivate so frequently.

So my two big questions currently are:

1- Why is my immune system so easily weakened to give way to viral infections almost every week, either from dormant viruses or new ones?
2- Why does sex seem to be a constant trigger for this condition?

Does this resonate with anyone's condition here?

[LAPOISSE2]

an other interesting reading :

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/neurosex.html

[urano75]

an other interesting reading :

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/neurosex.html

I think I stumbled upon sites like this before. Apart from the specific page on neurotransmitters, if you surf the rest of the site you'll see that essentially it considers regular orgasm and ejaculation an unhealthy habit.
I've also read books about Taoist Sex (I regularly practice tai chi chuan) which support this position: semen should be preserved as much as possible, and semen retention techniques might help with it. They mention that loss of vital fluids weakens the brain (cognitive) and the joints (knees, spine) among other things. Traditional Chinese Medicine considers sexual-related issues coming from the depletion ofjing, a vital force stored in kidneys (see correspondence to adrenals in our medicine).

While this can be interesting information to know, it brings me to several questions:

- why are some so sick after sex, while the vast majority of people can have a regular sexual life without their lives to be ruined? An otherwise healthy man, with no special "spiritual" ambitions, shouldn't be too concerned to have Os with moderation.
- is orgasm or ejaculation the culprit? I've tried semen retention techniques for months with no noticeable results. A very simple one, pressing with three fingers on the perineum right before O to block the semen emission. I'm even not sure it is a safe thing to do in the long term. For me it seems that orgasm is the problem, rather than ejaculation.
- is a sexual life without O rewarding? I wish it is for me. It might be for some, but it requires a lot of training. That's also what tantric techniques are about. Doing sex without never reaching an O makes me a bit more obsessed with sexuality and prone to nocturnal emissions. Also, it happens to me that I use an O to release an inner tension or to help sleep better when I couldn't at night, especially when my adrenals did funny things.

I'm so deeply tired of this situation that I'm seriously considering to forget about sex as much as possible, avoid sexual stimulation and abstain as long as I can to minimize the impact of this condition. Then try to enjoy more other aspects of life, for which I'd otherwise have no energy available.

[Vincent M]

Hi, There is hope;

It's funny, I was just writing about dopamine in the other forum ; bellow is my though of the day thats are linked to yours

This research is amazing : http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress

Did not find a better match with POIS ; fatigue, anxiety, social disorder and cognitive impairment that come and goes back within days ;

Orgasm = Dopamine VS prolactin ; What if prolactin wins by KO because raise for 1 hour only(non detectable) to the sky ? How long would dopamine need to go back to it's initial level ?

My prolactin like others is high, we had several hyperprolactinemia here(even adenoma)

Junk food cause low dopamine, stress cause low dopamine(see the vicious circle here), SSRI are also involved in dopamine reuptake inhibition, work for while and make symtoms worse(my story), coffe also.

Dopamine and testosterone are friends ; both high are both low

Is anybody tried to boost dopamine : soft way is mucuna pruriens / less soft ways are levodopa are dopamine agonist like bromocriptine(Coreeman tried that apparently but kinda disappeared from the forum then) ?

The theory is not new in here : https://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/test-page/orgasm-induced-catecholamine-imbalance-via-pituitary-dysfunction

The levodopa from m.pruiens can cross the blood brain barrier, but apparently most of it converts to dopamine before it reaches the brain and dopamine isn't good to have in your body in higher than normal amounts since it increases heart rate(I've experienced this) and I think has some other bad effects. I did seem to get a barely noticeable cognitive boost, but now I think it's probably not worth it due to the increased heart rate. The thing that took me by surprise is that the increased heart rate took a week or so after supplementation to show up. Quite a delayed effect.

So I'm guessing it would be safer to supplement tyrosine + NADH or L-phenylalanine. Patients with parkinson's are given a decarboxylase inhibitor known as carbidopa with levodopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine before entering the brain, but it is only available by prescription and probably has some nasty side effects. I read somewhere that green tea and coffee contain small amounts of a weak decarboxylase inhibitor which is why some say it is better to take m.pruriens with green tea, but I'm having trouble verifying that now. This topic is somewhat discussed at the following link: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23668-boosting-dopamine-tyrosine-dlpa-or-mucuna-pruriens/

[romies]

I've also been trying Tyrosine(about 1g/day) without notable efficiency ; Look at how works levodopa drugs for parkinson ; it's pretty complicated to have dopamine directly usable for your brain ;We could have tons of tyrosine, even Ldopa in the system, but nothing usable in the brain ;

I've used Tyrosine on-and-off for a few years as well, up to (3-4g/day). The effect is barely perceivable.

I do agree that Dopamine depletion is a big part of at least 1 form of POIS. But for me, lack of dopamine probably comes from the lack of BH4, which is needed to hydrolyze L-Tyrosine into L-DOPA.

L-Tyrosine, like most amino acid supplement, needs to be taken with an empty stomach, because of the competition for absorption with other amino acids.

For this problem, supplementing NADH has been a big help for me. just 10 mg per morning, it feels stronger than a double-shoot expresso. With NADH, I don't need tyrosine. And if I do take Tyrosine 500mg during the day, it feels like a big cup of coffee.

Again, my POIS is largely under control with NADH, Methyl-guard, Vit-D and Ginkgo extract.

[romies]

So my two big questions currently are:

1- Why is my immune system so easily weakened to give way to viral infections almost every week, either from dormant viruses or new ones?
2- Why does sex seem to be a constant trigger for this condition?

I had similar experiences when I was younger and did not know methyl-guard, vitamin-D etc.

My hypothesis for your question 1 is that immune systems are weakened by too much histamine and too much mast cell activity, triggered by an orgasm. And that can be addressed with methylfolate,methylB-12 if you are an undermethylator.

[romies]

Traditional Chinese medicine is an empirical medicine, meaning its underlying theory is often very flawed and unreliable, and unverifiable, even though some of the treatment it provides may alleviate some symptoms sometimes. The theory behind Jing and the vital energy in kidneys is a quintessential example of such flawed theory, in my view.

I think I stumbled upon sites like this before. Apart from the specific page on neurotransmitters, if you surf the rest of the site you'll see that essentially it considers regular orgasm and ejaculation an unhealthy habit.
I've also read books about Taoist Sex (I regularly practice tai chi chuan) which support this position: semen should be preserved as much as possible, and semen retention techniques might help with it. They mention that loss of vital fluids weakens the brain (cognitive) and the joints (knees, spine) among other things. Traditional Chinese Medicine considers sexual-related issues coming from the depletion ofjing, a vital force stored in kidneys (see correspondence to adrenals in our medicine).