[urano75]

By the way, copper is related to inflamation :

http://ajcp.ascpjournals.org/content/131/2/160.full

For me, there is no doubt that POIS is(or cause an) inflammation ; All the single technics/suplements/drugs you use as anti-inflamatory properties in common.

The most interesting bit in this article for me is that ceruloplasmin doesn't really correlate with free copper, making ceruloplasmin and total serum copper a questionable method to determine copper toxicity (assuming that toxicity depends on the amount of circulating free copper). Which makes the copper subject even more confusing to me.

That said, I agree and suspect that copper, zinc, manganese and iron balance can play a role in many ways, including inflammation, allergies and infections (immune system), adrenals and thyroid status (endocrine), as well as neurostrasmission (nervous system), and clearly all these layers are interconnected and relevant to our symptoms.

[B_Daniel]

Out of the people that have tested their cerruloplasm that I know of, the vast majority had values within 1 or 2 points of the bottom of the normal range.  It's too common amongst us to be coincidental.  If you're getting new testing done and haven't had that value checked, I'd get it done.  The cerruloplasm link is something we should be thinking about. 
 

[urano75]

Out of the people that have tested their cerruloplasm that I know of, the vast majority had values within 1 or 2 points of the bottom of the normal range.  It's too common amongst us to be coincidental.  If you're getting new testing done and haven't had that value checked, I'd get it done.  The cerruloplasm link is something we should be thinking about.

Yes Daniel, add myself to the list

Ceruloplasmin   20   [17 - 65]

I tend to believe it is because of adrenal weakness, leading to some kind of copper imbalance.

This is also confirmed by my

DHEA-S      85,60    mcg/ml   [125-483]* for men of age 30-39

and there is a possible correlation between low DHEA and copper deficiency

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11130850

[LAPOISSE2]

Out of the people that have tested their cerruloplasm that I know of, the vast majority had values within 1 or 2 points of the bottom of the normal range.  It's too common amongst us to be coincidental.  If you're getting new testing done and haven't had that value checked, I'd get it done.  The cerruloplasm link is something we should be thinking about.

Yes Daniel, add myself to the list

Ceruloplasmin   20   [17 - 65]

I tend to believe it is because of adrenal weakness, leading to some kind of copper imbalance.

This is also confirmed by my

DHEA-S      85,60    mcg/ml   [125-483]* for men of age 30-39

and there is a possible correlation between low DHEA and copper deficiency

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11130850

Adrenals weakness doesn't sound like a cause of anything(apart secondary symtoms) ; not sure they get weak by themselves.Minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc) are  the building blocks.Too much or too few, no transported correctly...All that sounds like a possible root cause to me.

[urano75]

Out of the people that have tested their cerruloplasm that I know of, the vast majority had values within 1 or 2 points of the bottom of the normal range.  It's too common amongst us to be coincidental.  If you're getting new testing done and haven't had that value checked, I'd get it done.  The cerruloplasm link is something we should be thinking about.

Yes Daniel, add myself to the list

Ceruloplasmin   20   [17 - 65]

I tend to believe it is because of adrenal weakness, leading to some kind of copper imbalance.

This is also confirmed by my

DHEA-S      85,60    mcg/ml   [125-483]* for men of age 30-39

and there is a possible correlation between low DHEA and copper deficiency

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11130850

Adrenals weakness doesn't sound like a cause of anything(apart secondary symtoms) ; not sure they get weak by themselves.Minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc) are  the building blocks.Too much or too few, no transported correctly...All that sounds like a possible root cause to me.

While I agree there will always be a root cause (or multiple ones) of the cause to be found and worked on, and that these are mainly labels to identify patterns...
I suggest you try to check with people with an adrenal burnout/fatigue/whatever history it's called for years how "secondary" their symptoms are and what impact they've had on their lives, well beyond POIS.
Adrenal function gets weak by constitution, prolonged stress, infections (especially chronic low-grade), toxicity, pushing and excessive lifestyle, prolonged impaired thyroid function to name few. Excluding Addison's which is autoimmune and is an extreme case.

Whatever you call it and the level you want to work for it, the symptoms are clear and vast and can be identified in a pattern.

[urano75]

This is an interesting quenstionnaire from a book I recommend reading:

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/take-the-adrenal-fatigue-quiz

[happy2]

Hi everybody, I'm new to the forum.  I have been dealing with POIS syndrome since I was in high school.  I'm now 32.  As of last year, September of 2012, I found this forum and it was only then I knew I had this disorder all these years.  I went to the urologist, he was in shock and kept saying as he typed on his laptop computer, "I have never heard of this, I have never heard of this."  Regardless of that fact he had me start taking an anti-histamine.  I read Claritin had helped some people on this site, so I started taking it everyday.  One month later, I woke up with a nocturnal emission in the middle of the night and immediately got out of bed, and took two Benadryls, another 10mg of Claritin, three Niacins (flush-free).  I went back to bed, and in the morning woke up to NO POIS.  It was awesome.  Actually, it was more like 10% as bad as it used to be on day 1, day 2 was down to 5% as bad, and day 3 and 4, the same.  It was a real miracle.  I suffered for years not knowing what was going on.  Sooo, for the last nine months I have been taking Claritin everyday, and two benadryls after every orgasm, immediately after orgasm.  The POIS symptoms have actually gone from 4 days of POIS then one day of crash to only 3 days of POIS total now.  That's 3 - 24 hour periods, and eight hours, and absolutely no crash.  Last year, untreated, the POIS would last for 7-8 days total with symptoms and crash.  Now it's down to only 3 total.  It's getting better, and it's really cool.  I would appreciate to hear from other people who have also been suffering with this very debilitating illness.

[B_Daniel]

Out of the people that have tested their cerruloplasm that I know of, the vast majority had values within 1 or 2 points of the bottom of the normal range.  It's too common amongst us to be coincidental.  If you're getting new testing done and haven't had that value checked, I'd get it done.  The cerruloplasm link is something we should be thinking about.

Yes Daniel, add myself to the list

Ceruloplasmin   20   [17 - 65]

I tend to believe it is because of adrenal weakness, leading to some kind of copper imbalance.

This is also confirmed by my

DHEA-S      85,60    mcg/ml   [125-483]* for men of age 30-39

and there is a possible correlation between low DHEA and copper deficiency

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11130850

Adrenals weakness doesn't sound like a cause of anything(apart secondary symtoms) ; not sure they get weak by themselves.Minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc) are  the building blocks.Too much or too few, no transported correctly...All that sounds like a possible root cause to me.

While I agree there will always be a root cause (or multiple ones) of the cause to be found and worked on, and that these are mainly labels to identify patterns...
I suggest you try to check with people with an adrenal burnout/fatigue/whatever history it's called for years how "secondary" their symptoms are and what impact they've had on their lives, well beyond POIS.
Adrenal function gets weak by constitution, prolonged stress, infections (especially chronic low-grade), toxicity, pushing and excessive lifestyle, prolonged impaired thyroid function to name few. Excluding Addison's which is autoimmune and is an extreme case.

Whatever you call it and the level you want to work for it, the symptoms are clear and vast and can be identified in a pattern.

I also agree that adrenal fatigue isn't the root cause of our problems, but I disagree LaPoisse in that I suspect that it's the root of most of our symptoms.  That and our thyroid functioning.  Even if we don't solve pois, if we can find a way to normalize our adrenal and thyroid functions, I think we could feel 100%.

[fornicationDENIED2]

I get a lesser degree POIS brain fog from sexual stimulation (thinking of sex). Is that possible if it is a semen allergy issue?

[LAPOISSE2]

I get a lesser degree POIS brain fog from sexual stimulation (thinking of sex). Is that possible if it is a semen allergy issue?

I don't think so ; My guess is it's much more complicated than that.

[jferr]

Hey guys. I have not been on here in a while but I am in a tough spot right now.

I'm not new to POIS. I've had it since I was 16, I'm now 26. Long story short, One day at the moment of climax when I was 16 it felt like an engine shut off my in my head. It wasn't the regular feeling I would always get after orgasm, Instead I felt dull and unenergized. From there, I was never the same. Since that day that 'engine' has never been turned back on. I remember wondering why I no longer felt the natural high of life or sense of well being I had felt before. I then developed a POIS on top of that, But not a regular POIS. My POIS includes a 3-5 day recovery period, but unlike many I have recovered less and less overtime. In other words my symptoms are constant, and if I do have an orgasm my body will not replenish my health the way it did even last time. Essentially I recover less each time. If I have 2 orgasms in a day my body cannot handle it, All my symptoms will take a big dip and my whole body chemistry will be changed. It has been debilitating. I've had to hold off for months at a time, And even in doing this my constant symptoms have not disappeared. 6 years ago I thought it couldn't get worse, 3 Years ago I thought the same, And today I am in fear because my symptoms have taken over my life.

Initially my symptoms were many and familiar to this forum .. Cognitive included trouble thinking, alertness issues, slowed reactions, difficulty feeling emotions. Physically my symptoms started with hot flashes, fatigue, muscle tremors, weakness, poor libido, groin and low abdominal pain following orgasms, and sensitive eyes among others.

I had to withdraw from school and work for a couple of years. I got all sorts of testing, tons of bloodworm, MRIs, Cat Scans. I've been to all sorts of doctors.... neurologists, endocrinologists, psychiatrists, urologists, cognitive therapists. Tons of visits to the top hospitals in Massachusetts. Standing up to many doctors as they told me its all in my head, and explained myself to many more as my testing came up normal. The frustration repeatedly finding nothing conclusive cannot be explained.

Eventually I found this forum I'd say around 2 years ago and I am very thankful for it. I initially found mild relief with fenugreek and garlic, but I still couldn't function. I then found niacin and felt about 40% better after orgasm. After 8 years into my issue, fellow member Kurtosis suggested a treatment regimen that I found great relief with. He told me to take spirulina, chlorella, fish oil, and vitamin C. So I was taking niacin before orgasm then all these supplements immediately after orgasm and also in the coming days. At first I felt strong, my weakness disappeared, I could think straight, and even my grain pains disappeared. I almost felt high in that I could work all day and I was very assertive. It was like things that seemed unbearable before became pleasurable and I couldn't find enough to accomplish. This went on for months. After a few months I started noticing myself dipping back down with each orgasm little by little.

I have since continued to dip and my symptoms are worse than ever. It is very difficult for me to open my eyes during the day, my cognitive symptoms are almost like that of a schizophrenic. I have trouble speaking and I slur my words, Trouble picking up social stimuli, I cannot always control my facial expression or voice, my sleeping is off, my emotions are very mild, periods of standing blankness, and I have trouble thinking. Physically all my symptoms have returned plus I have digestion issues, weakness, and others. These days even if I'm abstaining I still feel like I'm getting worse.

I've recently had trouble dealing with these as simple as the elements. Sun, wind, rain, etc. are harder now for my body to deal with. I feel that I'm mentally losing my sense of urgency as it took me days to write this. I sometimes wonder if taking all those supplements directly after orgasm hurt me more than helped me.

I certainly hope that the damage isn't permanent. Its one thing to not be thinning sharply or correctly, but it definitely worries me to think that I may have lost cognitive potential that I cannot recover.

All I can say is that I'm 26 and I do not have the energy to do more than 1 or 2 activities all day. I find myself taking half of the day to fully wake up and afterwards I find myself nodding off. I've tried everything. I am at the point where I am just struggling to live everyday. I feel like I'm in a bad spot guys. I see everything declining more and more. I don't know what to do. It seems that over time my energy is getting lower and lower and I really fear for what might happen to me. I am on a steady decline and I don't know what will happen to me if I get much worse. I would appreciate any input as I have a lot of respect for people in this forum.

Best,

Jon.

[meteo74]

Hi jferr
stay calm and don't worry ,  O. must be with a female*, do it just befor you sleep,so p.o.i.s come and go while you are sleeping.thats what i do.

beleive me,

* don't do it your self(this is the reason of pois)

[urano75]

Jon,
in all of your investigations, have you done an accurate adrenals/thyroid function assessment? I've written posts recently here about it, I'll avoid redundancy.
Are you or have you been on anti-depressants? What's your current regimen, and is there anything right now lifting you a bit up?
As you say that you're getting worse even if you abstain, there are clearly imbalances to be addressed besides POIS.

Andrea.

[desperate man]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here with the following: the longer I abstain and then ejcaulate, the worse my POIS is going to be.
I'm going to try benadryl soon, will be getting a prescription the upcoming days but there are things I don't understand...

The chemical reactions my body has to endure with an orgasm.
We have talked about blood sugar issues and I definetly have hypoglycemia but when I get a crash from not eating every 2 hours, then only that particular day gots ruined and I recover after 8 hours of sleep.

With POIS, I get the same symptoms as a blood sugar crash BUT I don't recover with sleep and infact I get worse the very next day and progressively get better and usually feel normal after 4-7 days depending on eating right and sleeping well.

After reading jferr's post I have can empathize as this came out of nowhere, been experiencing this before I took SSRI-s but after taking them my symptoms have fulfilled and exaggarated to the point of getting bedridden. Just masturbated yesterday after 7 days without O because I'm put under too much pressure right now and needed to feel that mental calmness.
Today I can barely walk. My legs,thighs hurt so much(for no reason) that I'm going to have to take a painkiller. When I stand up my legs are shaking and have all around muscle weakness over my body.

After reading jferr's post I was thinking he and I could be experiencing latent stage Lyme disease, as it came out of nowhere in the beginning or some other chronic viral infection. I wish there was a possible treatment to minimize the symptoms or recovery days, I'm taking the methylated forms of B complex and it doesn't help me. I should be studying for my exam but I can't even finish a simple math exam while abstaining a week makes me become a genius. If there was an 'end life' button in my room I would press it right now. Can't study, can't walk, can't think.  :-'(

[jferr]

Mateo and Urano,

Thank you for your responses. Urano, I have gotten some adrenal and thyroid blood testing. As far as a full profile I'm not sure what it consists of. I have noticed some minor inconsistencies in things like TSH, Cortisol, testosterone, and IGF-1 among other but nothing that would cause symptoms of this severity. Are you speaking of blood testing?

I tried antidepressants a few years ago but it did nothing, And I have always known that this issue isn't mentally derived, but rather just mentally effected.

Right now there is nothing that is helping. I was taking spirulina, chlorella, vitamin c, and fish oil immediately after orgasm for a while but I feel like over a few months time it has overworked my brain. Now when I take it I feel more burnt out than anything, like my body cannot handle the proteins in the vulnerable time after orgasm. It feels overworked. Thats as best as I can explain it. I hope that I didn't do damage taking those supplements right after orgasm.

I honestly don't know what could have caused all this. Its not a normal POIS because I never fully recover but I still have the 4-6 day POIS period. I don't know how something could go so wrong immediately at orgasm like it did 10 years ago. It felt like something shut down then and from there I have only gotten worse. I feel that I may only continue to get worse and I don't know what it will lead to. What makes it extra frustrating is that I'm 26 years old.

[jferr]

desperateman,

I can relate to some of the things you said. With me I feel the overall core energy in my body diminishing over time and I have all sorts of problems. I wish that I could abstain and be alright, but I don't recover like that. Mentally I cannot communicate with people.

I can somewhat relate to your restlessness if abstaining, its like a great deal of uptightness and restlessness if I wait too long. But I don't have a choice as an orgasm will shift how I feel mentally and physically, usually a great deal. I am declining over time and I don't know what will happen to me. I don't know what else to do.

[urano75]

Mateo and Urano,

Thank you for your responses. Urano, I have gotten some adrenal and thyroid blood testing. As far as a full profile I'm not sure what it consists of. I have noticed some minor inconsistencies in things like TSH, Cortisol, testosterone, and IGF-1 among other but nothing that would cause symptoms of this severity. Are you speaking of blood testing?

I tried antidepressants a few years ago but it did nothing, And I have always known that this issue isn't mentally derived, but rather just mentally effected.

Right now there is nothing that is helping. I was taking spirulina, chlorella, vitamin c, and fish oil immediately after orgasm for a while but I feel like over a few months time it has overworked my brain. Now when I take it I feel more burnt out than anything, like my body cannot handle the proteins in the vulnerable time after orgasm. It feels overworked. Thats as best as I can explain it. I hope that I didn't do damage taking those supplements right after orgasm.

I honestly don't know what could have caused all this. Its not a normal POIS because I never fully recover but I still have the 4-6 day POIS period. I don't know how something could go so wrong immediately at orgasm like it did 10 years ago. It felt like something shut down then and from there I have only gotten worse. I feel that I may only continue to get worse and I don't know what it will lead to. What makes it extra frustrating is that I'm 26 years old.

Jferr,

first of all, a constant POIS is not just a POIS by definition, but an indication of some permanent imbalance (nutritional, neurological, hormonal, immune) which needs being addressed.

Taking those specific supplements right after sex couldn't have done any harm, but to rebalance yourself a constant regimen is needed with the right things you need (which doesn't mean to take huge amounts of everything as I've been doing at some stage).

I asked about antidepressants not because "it's all in our head", but as I see that most people here have used them, myself included (for 11 years). Which means that often neurotransmitters imbalances are associated with our symptoms. Even though I responded positively to SSRI for lifting my "depression", I couldn't find a way out of many issues while on them, because they just covered up imbalances which have eventually come out in other more destructive ways. That doesn't mean one might need them in emergency cases for short periods, but I wouldn't rely on them as a long term solution.

What is in our head instead is our attitude to research, experiment, draw our conclusions independently and measure our steps ahead. You've had a tough time as most of us here, and you've done a lot of reasearch too, but don't get tired of it and don't give up. We all need to be lead by someone at some stage, but in the end nobody will tell us what to do but ourselves if we listen to our bodies and feelings (no easy task but must be learnt). This group offers a lot of different ideas on what ways to try, so see what sounds better to you. I believe we often need both a change of supplementation regimen and of lifestyle/attitude most of the times.

I generally write of adrenals/thyroid function not because it's the root cause for everything and for everyone, but because they have provided a pattern and a key for me to do substantial progresses, along with some big mistakes. So, if you're interested on the specific subject, read my posts, as well as many other interesting ones.
I don't have recipes because I have changed my approach so many times at each step.

Our health conditions are typically like an onion: you peel one superficial layer (e.g. infections), then perhaps you see you'll have to adjust your diet (e.g. cut sugars), then maybe to work on new things (e.g. adrenals), then you'll see you must address some underlying nutritional deficiencies (e.g. minerals). It's a personal neverending journey, and it is rewarding when you see the progress and are able to keep some balance. It's also a work requiring a lot of commitment and dedication. Magic pills and potions don't exists, and when it seems they do, they eventually won't last. Temporary helps do exist and must be used until the next stage of well being.

This is based of my experience, it hopefully will resonate with someone's and be helpful to someone else.

[jferr]

Urano, Thanks again for your reply.

You make some valid points and I'm sure they will help many people. When it comes to layers and research, I have been there and back. I've gotten every test done, And tried just about everything. I am not saying I have given up but I am thinking that my issue is one that cannot be fixed. I don' believe its like everyone else's in that there is a flaw linked to their sexual reproductive system. I believe something went very wrong 10 years ago, An 'engine' shut off. I have tried everything to jump start it, and I mean just about everything. I don't think its a permanent imbalance in one of the systems. It could be something between my brain and body that cannot be detected or tested. I have always been the type to stay positive and fight, and if I go down thats how I will go down. I just find myself getting worse and worse and especially lately. I know these things because a good deal of my life in the past decade has been towards trial and error, research, and doctors visits. There were some positives that came out of it but also no answers.

I am being very brief with the explaining of my issue as it is very deep because I don't want to flood the page with myself. It would take some explaining to fully get someone to understand where I am at.

[gondal4]

someone else get blurred vision during pois like when we see far it gets blurry

[Gbolduev]

Jferr,

I can try to solve your problem. You can  contact me  at  gbolduev@mail.ru.  We will get to the bottom of it.  Dont give up.   3-4 months and you would feel much better, I  promise.