[johanstefansson]

Would be nice if people here could calm down and once again focus on the medical issues.

[LupeNL]

LAPOISE
 First of all I cured  it for myself.. I hope people that are feeling better would come out and state it also/ 

Hello,

It's my first post, although I've been following this forum for a long time. I'm one of the people inspired by copper-zinc imbalance theory and have been under directions of Herman for some time. I've been hesitant to post anything since I'm not 100% cured but I see a steady progress and have a strong belief that for the first time I'm going in the right direction.

I promise to give an update in a month or two whether I'm cured or not.

LupeNL
   

[victor.kons]

Analyzing POIS mechanism once again:

From the tests that I recieved  recently,  almost every single  person   has low ceruloplasmin   in their blood.   Ceruloplasmin  is  copper based protein that  binds copper and carries it all over  including  into  the bile to detox. 
Bear with me,    you  have copper  in your serum and 95% of that copper should be bound to ceruloplasmin.   To test it  people  have  serum copper test and  ceruloplasmin tests,  from  which  you get  free copper  content.

Okay, we determine free copper in the blood.

Free copper  equals free estrogens   which  affect your inflammatory  systems.

Elevated copper levels lead to elevated estrogens, well, I see some open publications that say that elevated estrogens lead to elevated copper, so the statement seems true:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2626984

And elevated free copper leads to lowered immune system response.

Good, going further.

Ceruloplasmin is used to break  down histamine.  When  free copper part gets larger because of stress, or  constant masturbation ,  ceruplasmin  falls.  If you wish I can  provide you with many studies to  support this claim.
So the logic is this..... Stress  lowers ceruloplasmin levels,  which leads to  larger part  of the free copper in blood, which  can be calculated  by   the formula you can find online  for  free copper.( From  serum copper and ceruloplasmin)

Free copper irritates adrenals,  since it increases  cortiosl secretion obviously  this way  there is a steal taking place  and your aldosterone falls and cortisol goes up.  In this setup  your ceruloplasmin will go down ,  and histamine will go up..

This is  your mechanism for POIS. 

Okay, we have high free copper levels. The connection with cortisol is that excess copper speeds the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine and adrenalin. The excess adrenalin increases cortisol.
Assume we have elevated cortisol, this doesn't mean we will have low aldosterone at all!

Aldosterone is mainly regulated by renin-angiotensin system. ACTH leads in increase of both cortisol and aldosterone. Estrogen leads to aldosterone increase as well by activating aldosterone receptors. So how it comes with this setup that aldosterone fall down and cortisol go up?

Victor

[LAPOISSE2]

Analyzing POIS mechanism once again:

From the tests that I recieved  recently,  almost every single  person   has low ceruloplasmin   in their blood.   Ceruloplasmin  is  copper based protein that  binds copper and carries it all over  including  into  the bile to detox. 
Bear with me,    you  have copper  in your serum and 95% of that copper should be bound to ceruloplasmin.   To test it  people  have  serum copper test and  ceruloplasmin tests,  from  which  you get  free copper  content.

Okay, we determine free copper in the blood.

Free copper  equals free estrogens   which  affect your inflammatory  systems.

Elevated copper levels lead to elevated estrogens, well, I see some open publications that say that elevated estrogens lead to elevated copper, so the statement seems true:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2626984

And elevated free copper leads to lowered immune system response.

Good, going further.

Ceruloplasmin is used to break  down histamine.  When  free copper part gets larger because of stress, or  constant masturbation ,  ceruplasmin  falls.  If you wish I can  provide you with many studies to  support this claim.
So the logic is this..... Stress  lowers ceruloplasmin levels,  which leads to  larger part  of the free copper in blood, which  can be calculated  by   the formula you can find online  for  free copper.( From  serum copper and ceruloplasmin)

Free copper irritates adrenals,  since it increases  cortiosl secretion obviously  this way  there is a steal taking place  and your aldosterone falls and cortisol goes up.  In this setup  your ceruloplasmin will go down ,  and histamine will go up..

This is  your mechanism for POIS. 

Okay, we have high free copper levels. The connection with cortisol is that excess copper speeds the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine and adrenalin. The excess adrenalin increases cortisol.
Assume we have elevated cortisol, this doesn't mean we will have low aldosterone at all!

Aldosterone is mainly regulated by renin-angiotensin system. ACTH leads in increase of both cortisol and aldosterone. Estrogen leads to aldosterone increase as well by activating aldosterone receptors. So how it comes with this setup that aldosterone fall down and cortisol go up?

Victor

Hi Victor,

Can you confirm that from the test you have seen in the russian forum, people have low ceruloplasmin ? Additionaly have you seen recoveries by Herman protocol ? Are you personnaly still symptomatic ?

I'm not going to coment your explanation of the POIS mecanism as I'm not competent to do it but I have some infos to add :

-I've had my estradiol checked once ; it was below the range ; the rest of my test seems to indicate a copper toxicity even though it could be just the opposite(my blood copper, my ceruloplasmin and my urine copper are all low)
-My GF's has ovary insuficiency and have some stimulation protocole which makes her estradiol skyrocket...I think that I'm worse every time she does a stimulation
-The Dexter case is interesting as a raise in progesterone(which probably will change the progesterone/oestrogene ratio) kinda cure the dexter patient
-I also curious to understand why potentially 6 persons from this board claim to be cured with testosterone

Anyway I like your approach Victor and I'd like to see some competent person to contribute.

Cheers

[B_Daniel]

Victor - I like the direction you're headed in.  I know you're active in the russian forum so i appreciate you posting this on here for all of us to see. 

Like LupeNL, I'd like to give a brief update of my progress with Herman.  I started 8 months ago on the supplements he recommended.  I've felt a little better starting with month 1 but I plateaued until month 7.  While feeling a little better @ month 1 was a positive sign, other supplements I've taken in the past, such as sam-e and methionine, have provided the same level of benefit. 

About a month ago I started to feel another notch better.  However after an O I feel crummy again.  It takes 6 days to recover and I feel that notch better again.  You're probably thinking, that's what POIS is - you have an O, feel bad and then recover 6 days later.  Well I have constant POIS so getting some relief 6 days after an O is a definite improvement for me.  But am I cured?  No, I still have a long way to go.

I'll continue on and post any changes in my condition, positive or negative.       

[acronym]

LAPOISSE
"-The Dexter case is interesting as a raise in progesterone(which probably will change the progesterone/oestrogene ratio) kinda cure the dexter patient
-I also curious to understand why potentially 6 persons from this board claim to be cured with testosterone"

with the Dexter case was this the guy that benefited from some treatment his wife was on..and was it put down to a rise in progesterone? My pois is noticeably less when I have taken Nandrolone as opposed to Testosterone. I still have to take a little T though as it would kill my libido otherwise (bit some desperate guys here might think that's great), but less mg of nandrolone I feel much better than Test, and nandrolone raises progesterone and does not aromatize to estrogen like Test can (not that I think I was susceptible to that, but it still does)


B_Daniel - Have you done any detox like enemas or liver flushes like Herman did?

[LAPOISSE2]

Hi acronym,

Actually pregnancy multiply progesterone by about 100...The guy from Dexter case apparently just benefited from that...After pregnancy he took syntethic progesterone with the same positive effect on his POIS.

Additionaly, testosterone is made of progesterone ; My free testosterone has always be very low even if my total T has gone up and down depending of the test(day cycle, or POIS cycle maybe...)

How old are you ? How did you have meds to put you under T or nandrolone ? Base on what blood test ?

[Gbolduev]

Zinc increases  progesterone , progesterone increases zinc.  Progesterone is precursor to  testosterone. Progesterone raises potassium in the cell,     progesterone is the precurson to cortisol,  cortisol also raises  potassium in the cell.
Hypothyroid state is a state where progesterone is low,  total testosterone is low ,  estrogen is  high prolactin is high .
Acetylcholine  high  and dopamine low,  potassium in the cell is low,  and cortisol can be high or low  depending on the stage of adrenal exhaustion, since  cortisol will try to compensate lack of  potassium in the cell or lack of thryroid hormones.

Metabolism is  based on work of 2 glands,   thyroid and adrenals.  SO each of them compensates for lack of another to support  NA.K ratio  in the cell/

If thyroid dies from  damage or  from  nutrient deficiency ,  then adrenals will try to compensate  by secreting  cortisol  , which  raises  potassium in the cell... Potassium in the cell  makes thyroid hormones more sensitive and  work better.  SO when you see your  thyroid hormones  in blood  and they are "NORMAL" means nothing/  If there is not  enough potassium in the cell , they dont work, if there is  too much potassium they  overwork.

That is why  progesterone  estrogen balance is regulated  very tightly  by thyroid .

PROPECIA  or FINASTERID is   syntetic progesterone , and disregulates  your own production. That is why  people on it  tend to go hypothyroid and get POIS.

Progesterone  is  DHT antagonist, and  DHT is estrogen antagonist.  That is why  many people on PROPECIA go into estrogen dominance.  NO progesterone and no DHT.  Propecia is the pefect drug for  getting POIS.

That is why I am  saying that balancing is the best strategy  to get rid of POIS.
And that   actual knowing of the mechanism of POIS is not   important at all..  Although  SLAVRS claims different.
Who cares  how inflammatory process  gives you symptoms, without  knowing  how to balance your body chemistry you wont get rid of it with herbs , since you need to  take care of your  glandular work and it takes time.
For some it is really easy, if  thyroid work is impaired  due to acute stress and   loss of zinc, for others  who are already in  exhaustion  stage of stress it will take years to get  out of it..

Start balancing  and detoxing your liver.  Dont listen to rookies  like SLAVRS, who think that main issue is mechanism  of actual POIS representation, which is false and he contradicts himself.  If the primary reason is the mechanism of inflammation, then  why  do you need to  look for causes ))) LOL.  Totally makes no  sense.

Go on nutritional balancing , there are so many  people that can  help you  obtain  this  program and you willbe cured.  But  there are certain  aspects of  those programs that I  dont like,  that is why I do my own thing. And if anyone is ready  to  discuss the programs I am ready to do so,  but I dont have  time to  take every person case any more/

PLUS   there are NO qualified practitioners  who can balance you ,  those who exist , just follow  certain rules provided by the developers of the  balancing systems.

That is why It is crazy that SLAVRS portal would provide  database of  some practitioners.  It is pretty much already  exists  on Wilsons site.


I hope this  helps, and    guide you /

Cheers and bye for now.

[LAPOISSE2]

Very difficult to follow all that ;

My thyroid seems to be fine ; results are always in range...a bit more in the Hyper side...

Free T3 : 2,72    RV : 1,70-3,70
Free T4 : 14,20  RV : 4,10-18,5
TSH      : 0,740  RV : 0,350 - 4,94

You said Thyroid is fucked despite blood test it's right because I've not enough potasium ; My potasium is 4,3nmol/l  RV : 3,5-5,1....so just in the middle of the range...

My total testo is low...then it's high...my prolactin is high...my estradiol is very low......It doesn't fit your demonstration

So I wish that it is as simple for me that it seems to be for you ,I wish we have more tangible explanations with scientific demonstration and changes monitored folowing "balancing" protocol; Saying the blood test means nothing everytime it's not going in the theory direction is not satisfying for me.

It's a pity Dr Eck theory wasn't more discussed...

[Gbolduev]

LAPOISSE

This is not a mechanism for POIS for your case.  I posted this  to  help you  understand why progesterone helped one person since you were discussing it. And posted  some facts that you need to  base your research on , if you want to create the whole system. I know the whole sytem ,  all its chains.It is easier to explain it  on the chart.  Create a chart  with  NA/K  and all other minerlas   which   make the human CELL,  then  create interactions that   influence every mineral,  then  create ratios  that effect your metabolic processes.  This is called Balance.   READ the  biology book for starters  to know how the human cells are organized, how it works, what is ATP pump, ho w that works,   what maganesium does in the cell, what  calcium does on the  membraine of the cell, what potassium does int he cell.   This is all common knowelge  and  you  not knowing it  does not mean it needs to be researched and proven , since it is nothing new. Every biochemistry book has it.  If you people claim this to be scientific forum , then  people should be filtered by their knowledge,  it is crazy that  someone will be trying to discuss  and research  POIS would not know why potassium says nothing in blood, and why sodium is correct in blood.
The example would be    why  should a  scientist  prove to a caveman  that 2 plus  2 equals four.   This is the same  what is happening on this forum.  I am very tired   getting attacked on something that should be known by anyone who has a right to discuss any  medical condition  at all. Why do people  need  articles  and studies, you dont know  the basics  , why do you need  studies of some complex  reactions. I dont get that at all.
EVERY SINGLE CASE is DIFFERENT for POIS , but chemical reaction  that leads to inflammation is the same as SLAVRS  mentioned.
Your case is very simple , like any other case.   YOu need to  see your case  and  know what your body chemistry is,  Stop already  trying to fit it into one  theory , there is NO ONE THEORY, dont you people get it already. And  your  setup totally fits with what I said,  potassium in blood  you can throw out  in the window, since  there is no potassium in blood, potassium is intercellular  mineral and you have no idea what it is from blood.Get tested as I recommended and  get back to me. And you wil be fixed.
Read what I wrote,   thyroid can be high or low, that what I mean by screwed up. I meant that you cant read thyroid  from  thyroid blood tests at all.   Since you dont know your potassium inside of the cell,  the potassium in blood tells you absolutely nothing.
TSH does not  show  hyper state at all....

it is not ecks theory , every doctor is supposed to know this stuff. This is how  body works.
BODY needs to be taken as a system and not as  separate systems,   no herbs will fix the system.


You know my  e-mail, get balanced get tested  and  I will help you , since you were already  here before.

You are the last  I  am  helping. BYE

[johanstefansson]

anyone here should check this out:

http://yourbrainonporn.com/your-brain-on-porn-series

series about porn addiction and its effects on dopamine and brain.

very informative and interesting, at least i think so 

[B_Daniel]

B_Daniel - Have you done any detox like enemas or liver flushes like Herman did?

I've done some coffee enemas in the past and continue to do about 1 per month.  I tried the liver flush a month ago and it was a miserable experience for me - i hated fasting and drinking the epsom salts.  So i'm not doing any more of those. 

[Kima]

Dr. Wilson's, sexual exhaustion

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/what-about-sexual-exhaustion

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/symptoms-low-cortisol/

[LAPOISSE2]

LAPOISSE

This is not a mechanism for POIS for your case.  I posted this  to  help you  understand why progesterone helped one person since you were discussing it. And posted  some facts that you need to  base your research on , if you want to create the whole system. I know the whole sytem ,  all its chains.It is easier to explain it  on the chart.  Create a chart  with  NA/K  and all other minerlas   which   make the human CELL,  then  create interactions that   influence every mineral,  then  create ratios  that effect your metabolic processes.  This is called Balance.   READ the  biology book for starters  to know how the human cells are organized, how it works, what is ATP pump, ho w that works,   what maganesium does in the cell, what  calcium does on the  membraine of the cell, what potassium does int he cell.   This is all common knowelge  and  you  not knowing it  does not mean it needs to be researched and proven , since it is nothing new. Every biochemistry book has it.  If you people claim this to be scientific forum , then  people should be filtered by their knowledge,  it is crazy that  someone will be trying to discuss  and research  POIS would not know why potassium says nothing in blood, and why sodium is correct in blood.
The example would be    why  should a  scientist  prove to a caveman  that 2 plus  2 equals four.   This is the same  what is happening on this forum.  I am very tired   getting attacked on something that should be known by anyone who has a right to discuss any  medical condition  at all. Why do people  need  articles  and studies, you dont know  the basics  , why do you need  studies of some complex  reactions. I dont get that at all.
EVERY SINGLE CASE is DIFFERENT for POIS , but chemical reaction  that leads to inflammation is the same as SLAVRS  mentioned.
Your case is very simple , like any other case.   YOu need to  see your case  and  know what your body chemistry is,  Stop already  trying to fit it into one  theory , there is NO ONE THEORY, dont you people get it already. And  your  setup totally fits with what I said,  potassium in blood  you can throw out  in the window, since  there is no potassium in blood, potassium is intercellular  mineral and you have no idea what it is from blood.Get tested as I recommended and  get back to me. And you wil be fixed.
Read what I wrote,   thyroid can be high or low, that what I mean by screwed up. I meant that you cant read thyroid  from  thyroid blood tests at all.   Since you dont know your potassium inside of the cell,  the potassium in blood tells you absolutely nothing.
TSH does not  show  hyper state at all....

it is not ecks theory , every doctor is supposed to know this stuff. This is how  body works.
BODY needs to be taken as a system and not as  separate systems,   no herbs will fix the system.


You know my  e-mail, get balanced get tested  and  I will help you , since you were already  here before.

You are the last  I  am  helping. BYE

Ok Herman, thanks for the time you took to answer...I have been feeling like sh1t for 3 weeks now...Worse than ever...and so badly want to understand what's wrong and be sure that i'm in the good direction...but I guess I need a bit more of faith a patience

[Gbolduev]

Contact me, I will try to help you . Do it today ,  since  I  am moving soon and I wont be on the internet at all.

[Kima]

What causes post-orgasmic symptoms?

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/what-causes-post-orgasmic-symptoms

[LAPOISSE2]

What causes post-orgasmic symptoms?

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/what-causes-post-orgasmic-symptoms

What should we conclude from that ?

[acronym]

B_Daniel - Have you done any detox like enemas or liver flushes like Herman did?

I've done some coffee enemas in the past and continue to do about 1 per month.  I tried the liver flush a month ago and it was a miserable experience for me - i hated fasting and drinking the epsom salts.  So i'm not doing any more of those. 

I do green coffee with purified/filtered water enema once a week. Like you I hated the liver flushes and would feel miserable and hate to think about revisiting it. I did not do it with epsom salt from memory but olive oil & grapefruit/lemons (I think). The first time I threw up.

[ricky79]

Go on nutritional balancing , there are so many  people that can  help you  obtain  this  program and you willbe cured.  But  there are certain  aspects of  those programs that I  dont like,  that is why I do my own thing. And if anyone is ready  to  discuss the programs I am ready to do so,  but I dont have  time to  take every person case any more/

Hi,

I haven't seen much discussion going on in here about diets. This thread is going long and I don't know if it was discussed earlier. Anyway I believe that to be an important issue to be managed. 

When I was 21 my symptoms were so bad, so much pain, weakness, and anxiety, and no doctor could help, I had a brain stroke. All possible exams were made prior and after the brain stroke and nothing was detected. Was really in pain, skin very red in my face, went to the best doctors, nobody could help me. Most of the time the doctors just simply totally dismissed my case because I consistently had "good" exams: blood, urine, x-rays, TAC, lung exams, eyes, ... nothing was found.
Even tough it was obvious that I had severe inflammation inside my body somehow it wasn't detected. After the brain stroke I had many more crises with strong pain in legs, stomach, bladder, and muscles, poor control of my hands, permanent fatigue, lack of breath. And then my liver start hurting, went to the hospital several times, even had an haemorrhage in the left eye due to very strong vomits and again lots of exams right after that, the diagnostic was always "everything is fine" and no diagnostic! (That's why I must agree with Gbolduev that there is no doctor that will fix it with some pill. It must a continuous learning and experiment. And I'm very much interested about reading all sorts of experiments that people have been doing. We must learn something with each other. It's the only way to get it faster.)

After that, one day I tried to make fasting for 3 days (age 26) only juices and then repeated again 3 more days but only water. So simple but such amazing results. I remember feeling an amazing improvement, about 60%. The problem is that I can't live without eating and I tried every single diet with no success until I was 28. Then I found a very good nutritionist. He follows some teachings from Paleo Diet and uses it to help handle inflammation through diet. But I don't just totally follow a Paleo Diet, I just take some information and adapt it in the best way that it suits me. But Paleo Diet is good starting point and is backed by science. Since I got a consistent non-harmfull diet that my body stopped hurting and everything became so much easier. The way to know if a food is suitable for me is very simple: I just observe the evolution of my symptoms during 30 minutes until 1 or 2 hours after eating. If I get worst I avoid that specific food. Since then I have been adjusting it (I'm now 34) and it was the only consistent way to get some good long term results.
In my case I can't eat red meat, vegetable oils (only olive oil), rice, potatoes, any kind of pasta, white part of the eggs, ... and I mostly replaced it with fish, chicken, vegetables, fruits.

Nowadays I'm feeling better than I ever felt before. I would say about 85% recovered, make love 2 or 3 times a week with no big relapses. Still avoid at all costs to ejaculate by masturbation. Have been taking Levitra, ZMA / Zink Magnesium Vit B, Coleus Forskohlii.

During the last days tried to take some of of the supplements recommended by Gbolduev (Zink, Vit C, Manganese, Magnesium and Vit A, still no Copper because couldn't find it but I tried copper in the past and I got good results, so I will try adding it again soon). I got rid of the brain fog. I would like to make these small improvements became permanent. Let's see if there are long term results now.

[ajs]

Ricky79....do you think you had food allergies or intolerant of certain foods? It's odd cuz I actually would feel better the longer i would go without eating too. At one point my pois would not kick in until I ate something. I do the best by just eating meat....I'll probably have a heart attack by 45 but u gotta do what u gotta do!