[HealthTeacher (OP)]

Finally I think I have found a place that can answer
this question(s) for me!!!  Obviously HIV is a very fragile virus that doesn't
take much to inactivate!!  My question is about disinfectant vs. natural
environmental "killing" of the virus.  What more to the virus would using a
disinfect do to "kill" the virus, that environmental exposure wouldn't do
itself.....lets say after a week of being out of the body?  Basically if a
person is OCD about the HIV virus, is it even worth covering everything (door
knobs, shopping carts, etc) with disinfectant in trying to destroy the virus
MORE than it already is?  What would it look like under a microscope after a
disinfectant vs. a week in the environment!
Thanks for your time!!!!
Middle School Health Teacher

[exothermic]

What more to the virus would using a disinfect do to "kill" the virus, that environmental exposure wouldn't do itself.....lets say after a week of being out of the body? 

Basically if a person is OCD about the HIV virus, is it even worth covering everything (door
knobs, shopping carts, etc) with disinfectant in trying to destroy the virus
MORE than it already is?

A disinfectant would merely kill HIV in a shorter timeframe.

Now in the context of the proposed scenario, it wouldn't matter either way, as HIV wouldn't survive on a door knob or similar surface for more than a few hours [at best]

[HealthTeacher (OP)]

Thanks for the reply..........So in other words, using a disinfect wouldn't do anymore to KILL hiv than the environment would do, it would just speed up the process.  Basically the disinfectant after a week is a waste of disinfectant??

[exothermic]

Thanks for the reply..........So in other words, using a disinfect wouldn't do anymore to KILL hiv than the environment would do, it would just speed up the process.  Basically the disinfectant after a week is a waste of disinfectant??

Precisely.

HIV on a door knob couldn't survive in an oxidative environment for more than a few hours, so using a disinfectant after that few-hour timeframe would serve little purpose

[HealthTeacher (OP)]

Thanks again!
Do you have access to any pictures of what a dead (HIV)virus exposed to the environment compared to a dead virus from disinfectant would look like.  Would they look the same??  As you can tell, I didn't take many courses in microbiology. I can not convince a student that they are wasting their time using lysol on  doors, shopping carts, etc.  when dealing with HIV.  She thinks it will KILL it more!

[exothermic]

Do you have access to any pictures of what a dead (HIV)virus exposed to the environment compared to a dead virus from disinfectant would look like.  Would they look the same?? As you can tell, I didn't take many courses in microbiology. I can not convince a student that they are wasting their time using lysol on  doors, shopping carts, etc.  when dealing with HIV.  She thinks it will KILL it more!

Unfortunately I do not know of any such comparison. What your student needs to realize is that HIV is an extremely fragile virus outside of the host. Once it's inactivated via environmental and/or external degradation.... there is no reactivating. Period.

[Bored chemist]

Thanks again!
Do you have access to any pictures of what a dead (HIV)virus exposed to the environment compared to a dead virus from disinfectant would look like.  Would they look the same??  As you can tell, I didn't take many courses in microbiology. I can not convince a student that they are wasting their time using lysol on  doors, shopping carts, etc.  when dealing with HIV.  She thinks it will KILL it more!

I doubt anyone has a picture of a live virus.
Almost all virions are far to small to see, even with a light microscope. You need an electron microscope to see them.
But, in order to see something with an electron microscope, you need to expose it to a high vacuum- and it's quite common practice to plate it with a (very) thin layer of gold.
The virus wouldn't be viable after that.

[HealthTeacher (OP)]

Thanks again for the responses.  Great site!!
So what "kills" it?  When it looses its protein coat?  Basically disinfectant and the environment do the same thing to the virus..... disinfectant just does it faster?

[Bored chemist]

"kills" is a tricky concept in the world of the virus. A virus isn't alive.
However like a lot of living things it works because it has a particular arrangement of component parts. Disrupting either those parts or the arrangement will inactivate the virus.

Bleach- as an example will destroy proteins.
Ultraviolet light will destroy the DNA or RNA of the virus.
Exposure to air will have a number of effects.
One is that it will dry out- most viruses will need some water to hold their structures together .
It also allows the virus to be exposed to UV light.
And it also exposes  the virus to free radicals- shattered bits of molecules that exist - typically in small concentrations- in the air.
Those radicals are very reactive and- much like hydrogen peroxide- they randomly react with bits of the virus and tear bits out of it.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. The virus gets torn to bits or too mangled to "work".

[exothermic]

So what "kills" it?  When it looses its protein coat?  Basically disinfectant and the environment do the same thing to the virus..... disinfectant just does it faster?

Well detergent-mediated inactivation generally causes dissolution of the lipid membrane, splicing of the nucleic acids and permanent cross-linking of viral proteins. Environmental inactivation is primarily oxidative and sunlight-mediated.

[Atkhenaken]

HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation etc. Using external cleaning agents will be ineffective. Note - There are no viruses involved in HIV.

[exothermic]

There are no viruses involved in HIV.

rofl.... nice try. This is a [science] forum.

HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation ect.

Do you believe in unicorns by chance?

~

[Atkhenaken]

There are no viruses involved in HIV.

rofl.... nice try. This is a [science] forum.

HIV is an internal problem caused by bad diet, alcohol, drugs, lack of vitamins, sleep deprivation ect.

Do you believe in unicorns by chance?

~

Yeah, this is a science forum. So why are you posting such nonsense? Viruses don't have cell walls and are single celled. This picture is obviously not a virus. Note - - Electron microscopes can only see black and white, so where did all that colour come from? lol! Nice try though!

[exothermic]

Yeah, this is a science forum. So why are you posting such nonsense? Viruses don't have cell walls and are single celled.

"Enveloped viruses acquire lipid membranes as their outer coat through interactions with cellular membranes during morphogenesis within, and egress from, infected cells. In contrast, non-enveloped viruses typically exit cells by cell lysis, and lipid membranes are not part of the released virions. However, non-enveloped viruses also interact with lipid membranes at least during entry into target cells. Therefore, lipids, as part of cellular membranes, inevitably play some roles in life cycle of viruses."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187601/

[exothermic]

This picture is obviously not a virus. Note - - Electron microscopes can only see black and white, so where did all that colour come from? lol! Nice try though!

Color enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

So how about them unicorns?

[Atkhenaken]

Yeah, this is a science forum. So why are you posting such nonsense? Viruses don't have cell walls and are single celled.

"Enveloped viruses acquire lipid membranes as their outer coat through interactions with cellular membranes during morphogenesis within, and egress from, infected cells. In contrast, non-enveloped viruses typically exit cells by cell lysis, and lipid membranes are not part of the released virions. However, non-enveloped viruses also interact with lipid membranes at least during entry into target cells. Therefore, lipids, as part of cellular membranes, inevitably play some roles in life cycle of viruses."

Trying to bluff me into submission with long complicated scientific jargon doesn't cut it with me! lol

[Atkhenaken]

This picture is obviously not a virus. Note - - Electron microscopes can only see black and white, so where did all that colour come from? lol! Nice try though!

Color enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

So how about them unicorns?

It has been known in the past, that some stupid people have mistaken hormones for viruses! I hope that you wouldn't put yourself in that category? lol!

[exothermic]

Trying to bluff me into submission with long complicated scientific jargon doesn't cut it with me! lol

That's called peer-reviewed scientific evidence, and it annihilates your foolish comments.

[exothermic]

It has been known in the past, that some stupid people have mistaken hormones for viruses! I hope that you wouldn't put yourself in that category? lol!

Oh Ye, Of Little Knowledge.....



http://cdn-http.innerbody.com/sites/default/files/HIV%20virions.png

[chris]

HIV is an enveloped virus. This means that the core of the virus, which contains the genetic information, is wrapped up in an oily layer. Sticking out of this oily envelope are the "receptor" molecules that are used by the virus particle to attach to - and infect - target cells.

The envelope is stable only in an aqueous (watery) environment. This means that while it is in blood the virus remains viable. But transferred to an external surface, which will dry out, the virus will also dry and the envelope will be disrupted. When this happens the receptors upon which it depends for infectivity will also be disrupted and hence the virus is incapable of infecting.

At the same time, in the environment the virus is exposed to ultraviolet rays which chemically destroy the nucleic acid (RNA) that comprises the viral genomes (each particle has 2 copies of its genome). This mutates the virus out of existence, further reducing viability.

In terms of cleaning products that are effective, enveloped viruses, as a rule, are fairly fragile and relative easy to clean up. Anything that disrupts an oily structure will disable them. So soap and water, washing up liquid or an alcohol solution will "sterilise" enveloped viruses from a surface.