[syhprum (OP)]

One of the things that strikes you in Germany is the amount of smoking and the way drivers flash their lights to get past if you drive as slow as 160kph on the autobahn, despite these things road casualties are low and the Germans seem to stay healthy

[Atomic-S]

It would be helpful if some firm statistics were available.

[chiralSPO]

well, the first result of a web search is this list: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/life-expectancy-country.html
Manaco is in first place at 89.5 years (but I don't think the country is sufficiently large to count properly), and Japan is in 2nd with 84.7 years. Chad comes in last place (224th) with an expectancy of just under 50 years (eek!)

Germany is in 32nd place with a lifetime expectancy of 80.57 years (just edging out the UK, which is in 33rd with 80. 54) Germany is not particularly out of place among other similar European countries (the entire EU, still counting the UK, is listed as 80.2 years).

I suspect that two of the reasons the high speeds allowed on the autobahn are not as dangerous as in other countries are that a) the roads and cars are very well engineered, and b) the Germans are very serious about following laws and rules (this is not just an overgeneralization--I lived in Germany for some time, and I can tell you first hand, they won't even walk across the street until the light says so, even at 2am when the road is completely empty and it's cold and raining and the destination is right across the street...)

[chris]

I suspect that two of the reasons the high speeds allowed on the autobahn are not as dangerous as in other countries are that a) the roads and cars are very well engineered, and b) the Germans are very serious about following laws and rules (this is not just an overgeneralization--I lived in Germany for some time, and I can tell you first hand, they won't even walk across the street until the light says so, even at 2am when the road is completely empty and it's cold and raining and the destination is right across the street...)

I also suspect that there is something to be said for the fact that if everyone does this, and expects other to do likewise, and is therefore respectful and sensible about it, then fewer people do stupid things and cause accidents.

I did also read somewhere that, in Germany, lorries are banned from certain roads at certain times of the day or week. Is that true? If so, I can also see why that would make situations safer, because the infuriating and dangerous practice of pulling out and overtaking at 50 and 50.1 mph respectively, usually on a hill and when there is already a train of other lorries to pass, would not happen...

Incidentally, why do HGV drivers do this? They must know that it's bloody antisocial and drives people crazy. Moreover, it leads to people doing stupid things behind them...

[alancalverd]

Autobahns, like good motorways, are much safer than other roads and are designed for continuous speeds of 120 mph. The 70 mph limit on UK roads was a response to  fuel shortages. Unfortunately the 60 mph limit on trucks, and the preponderance of 2-lane motorways and A roads in the UK, means that it is impossible to maintain an average speed above 55 mph over any significant distance and lane-changing collisions, though rarely fatal, are very frequent. The situation is not helped by a very British habit of slowing down instead of speeding up to join a motorway.

[alancalverd]

Incidentally, why do HGV drivers do this? They must know that it's bloody antisocial and drives people crazy. Moreover, it leads to people doing stupid things behind them...

The art of HGV driving is to stay in the highest gear that will keep the engine running in a fairly narrow rev band, possibly 900 - 1500 rpm - much narrower than for a diesel car. If you are fully loaded you can maintain 60 mph in a high gear on the level but you will have to change down several notches to climb the shallowest of hills, and however slick you and your gearbox may be, you will lose some speed during the change. This means that the unloaded HGV behind you will either have to change down or overtake, but he is limited to 60 mph, so with A travelling at 59 and B at 60,  it takes around 60 seconds to pull out, pass clear of the slower vehicle, and pull in again.

The trouble with HGVs is that they are exactly that: carrying a payload from almost zero up to twice the empty weight of the vehicle, unlike a car whose payload is rarely less than a tenth or more than half of the empty weight.

[chris]

Fair enough, Alan, but for that 1mph difference, I think they should change gear and let the cars pass, rather than cause relentless hold-ups all the way down the A1. I had heard that the law will be changed to ban this sort of over-taking. I hope that happens; I have enormous respect for the skill of HGV drivers; seeing them reverse an unfeasibly large load around a corner and into an impossibly small entrance is incredible. What I do not respect is their inconsiderate obstruction of the motorway fast lane...

[alancalverd]

If you ever have to appear before the magistrates to defend your licence, don't mention "the fast lane" - you will lose your appeal. The right hand lane is for overtaking, regardless of speed, and is always subject to the applicable speed limit.

Back to the HGV driver for a moment. You pull out into an empty lane - nobody wihtin half a mile of you - to overtake another HGV which seems to be fully loaded, but turns out to be capable of 59 mph uphill. You are limited by the grace of the European Union to 60. It takes you a minute to pass. Meanwhile some bloke in a BMW (it's always a bloke in a BMW) is coming up behind you at 90 mph. So he crashes into you before you have completed the manouver, and complains that you were hogging the lane. But he was half a mile away when you began the manouver - completely out of sight and possibly not even on the motorway.

HGV training and testing does not yet include the psychic ability to see round corners behind you, or to anticipate the ignorance of others.

[syhprum (OP)]

I think that the laws that ban discrimination on the grounds of race, gender, religion ect should also ban the discrimination against BMW drivers (such as me) .
I always find it a great relief when I drive in Germany as I know all other drivers will be driving in a responsible manner and I will not encounter cameras and drive even slower signs every 500 meters, I normally drive at 160Kph as compromise between getting there quickly and costs. 

[alancalverd]

I think that the laws that ban discrimination on the grounds of race, gender, religion ect should also ban the discrimination against BMW drivers (such as me) ..........
 I normally drive at 160Kph......... 

Ipsi dixit, your worship. Observation, not discrimination.