[smart (OP)]

The big bang theory is not compatible with the laws of thermodynamics. Matter or energy cannot be created or destroyed from nothing.

[Bill S]

Matter or energy cannot be created or destroyed from nothing.

Therefore, the Universe cannot have been created from nothing.  I'll not argue with that, but the next step - saying that this negates the BB theory - is one I could not take without a reasoned argument. First, you would have to establish that there was nothing before the BB; not easy, I think.

[Kryptid]

The Big Bang theory only claims that the Universe started with a singularity that rapidly expanded over time. It doesn't address how the singularity came into existence.

[jeffreyH]

The big bang theory is not compatible with the laws of thermodynamics.

Give me an example of this.

Matter or energy cannot be created or destroyed from nothing.

How can you destroy something from nothing?

[puppypower]

The big bang theory is not compatible with the laws of thermodynamics. Matter or energy cannot be created or destroyed from nothing.

The reason matter and energy, appear to be created from nothing in the Big Bang theory, is because there is no good consensus theory for what happened before the big bang. However, it is possible to go back before time=0, to fill in the missing pieces to reveal the source of energy.

The key has to do with the theory of space-time. Space-time is a mathematical construct that fuses the three dimensions of space with a single dimension of time, to model the physical universe. To address before big bang, we need to extrapolate this math construct, slightly, by separating space-time into individual variables of space and time. With space-time broken up into separated space and time, this allows space to act independently of time, and time to act independently of space.

If the we could move in space, without the construct of time, we can be in any place in the universe in zero time. This is traditionally called omnipresence. If we could move in time, without the constraints of space, we could know the history of the universe anywhere and everywhere. This is traditionally called omniscience.

The math construct of space-time places a limit on motion and information, connected to the speed of light. If we separate space from time, the speed of light limit is no longer a limiting factor, since speed of a combination of distance and time, and not just distance or time.

The reason this extrapolation of space-time is mathematically possible, is according to special relativity, if we traveled at the speed of light the universe would appear as a point-instant. This means everything in the universe will appear to overlap in space and time, from the POV of the speed of light reference. The reason the construct of space-time breaks down into space and time is because the point-instant reference, implies simultaneity in universal space and universal time. We can be anywhere and everywhere just by sitting on the point-instant.

Say you could move in space without time, you could be in two places at the same time, since it will take zero time to move back and forth between the two places. This is a simple way to establish a gradient in space. With this gradient in place, we then move in time, without the constraint of space, by focusing on these two points, with slightly different times. What we have done is created a potential gradient in space and in time, but not yet in space-time. We now have hidden potential energy, but not yet in space-time.

Picture a wave tank, with wave generators on each side, each 180 degree of out phase with the other. Since the generated waves are out of phase, the crests will cancel the troughs in the center of the tank. The wave generators are pushing out energy, on each side, but the waves cancel to create what appears to be silence in the center of the tank; hidden energy.

Traditionally, energy is both a particle and a wave. This is true of space-time, but it is not true when space is separate from time. The reason is, particles only exist in space-time. Waves can appear to cancel by occupying the same space and time. Particles cannot occur the same space and time. The original hidden energy is not traditional energy, in the sense, it does not yet have a particle nature but it nevertheless defines a type of potential potential.

The formation of the particle nature of energy will be needed before it can appear as normal energy. In terms of a visual, if we placed a wooden partition, in the stillness of the wave tank, the hidden energy will be revealed as wave rise up on each side. In the case of the big bang, the partition, from which space-time appears, and the hidden energy is reveled, is the primordial particle.

According to special relativity, mass cannot move at the speed of light. Since space-time is connected to less than a speed of light reference, this means is our primordial particle has to be in a reference slightly less then C. Mass and matter can never return directly to C, since this will take infinite energy. The primordial particle can never go directly back, but has to find another way back to C; big boom!

The analogy is you are walking in the mountains, and an avalanche occurs, that blocks your path backwards to the campsite. You need to go home, but you can no longer go the way you came. It would take too much energy to dig your way through the avalanche. You must go forward and find another way back. The subsequent evolution of the universe is an alternate path back to C. It occurs via the forces of nature in space-time, which convert matter; inertial reference, to energy; speed of light reference. Gravity causes space-time to contract toward the C reference.

The inertial universe and space-time is not isolated from the speed of light reference where space and time are dissociated. These will overlap. For example, acceleration is d/t/t. This is space-time plus additional time potential.

[Bill S]

Perhaps the question should be: "Is Puppypower a hoax?"

[jeffreyH]

Before making any pronouncements maybe those unenlightened individuals should know something.
http://www.science20.com/train_thought/blog/entropy_not_disorder-75081
Read right through. Even the notes at the end. This all stems from the classical view of thermodynamics. It was Boltzmann who applied the idea of disorder to entropy in the context of molecular interactions. Happy learning.

[Bill S]

Thanks for that link, Jeffrey.

 

It was Boltzmann who advocated the idea that entropy was related to disorder. In Boltzmann's mind, the more ways a system could move internally, the more disorderly the system was.

While this is, undoubtedly, true; it is sometimes used to suggest that Boltzmann got it wrong.  This may be a bit unfair to him, as there seems to be a possibility that he used disorder as an analogy, to help convince doubters.

[Bill S]

Jeffrey, I've just skimmed through that article.  I am going to have to read it again, possibly more than once.  It contains well explained information relevant to posts in other threads, as well as this one. 

The gratifying thing is that much of it lines up with my existing notes on entropy, but there are some important points I'll have to add or revise. 

[jeffreyH]

Jeffrey, I've just skimmed through that article.  I am going to have to read it again, possibly more than once.  It contains well explained information relevant to posts in other threads, as well as this one. 

The gratifying thing is that much of it lines up with my existing notes on entropy, but there are some important points I'll have to add or revise. 

It is gratifying to have your ideas confirmed. Keep it up.