[guest46746]

Is a rose a rose? A spectra analysis would needed to be done to confirm this theory, but it would redefine cosmology if proven to be significantly valid. Is the solar system and the planets within it, a macro formations of a micro design. Disregarding the elementary "homogeneous" nature of elements with regards to atomic weights and numbers, but instead focusing on the nature a structure's electrical/radiant charge quotient, similar structures within the macro and micro realms should produce a similar spectral line signature.  In example, a spectral line of a hydrogen atom with a single orbiting electron level should have significant similarities with the Earth and it's Moon. By the same token, the Sun and its planets with their satellites should produce a unique spectral line graph compositionally equivalent to a molecule.

Macro spectral line analysis maybe be avenue for further dark matter/dark energy research.

[chiralSPO]

Nope.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the similarities between an atom and a system of orbiting planets/stars/moons is merely superficial.

Electrons do not actually orbit atomic nuclei, even though there are some overly simplistic diagrams that appear to show this.

Also the interaction between electrons and nuclei is electrostatic (and magnetic to some extent), and so has the ability to interact with light (electromagnetic radiation). There is no analog for orbiting massive bodies whose primary interaction is gravitational.

Finally, at the scale of atoms and electrons, quantum mechanics rules the universe. This is why only specific frequencies of light interact with specific atoms. Again, there is no analogy once we get to macroscopic systems. There is no "preferred" rate at which the moon orbits the Earth (in fact this rate has been changing continuously for billions of years, and will continue to do so).

[guest46746]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am aware of all that you have said. Electrons appear orbiting as a fluid cloud around the nuclei. There are considerations that electromagnetic interchanges occur between orbiting bodies, not to discount gravity.  No argument as to fermion's ability or quantum on a  bosonic level to interact with light, "electromagnetic radiation". The analog I believe you mentioned is in regards to the spectral line analysis. Of course, the absorption of light or reflection of light of an element or molecule is indicative of its elemental properties. Interaction is key to an element's reflection, this is it's electromagnetic, light, signature. It is not a micro gravitational signature.   A preferred rate of chiral motion, right hand/left hand is seen in the Universe and in quantum mechanics, both. A variance in the rate at which the Moon orbits the Earth is most likely due to the Earths own procession which has varied throughout it's existence. It like saying the electron's plasmic cloud is fixed and there is no evidence for that, ss we know with the discharge of photons from energy levels nothing is fixed at a preferred rate. What is important is that the Moon has orbited the Earth stably for 4 billion years? My contention is that a verifiable electromagnetic signature of this relationship exist sans gravity. My further contention is that this electromagnetic signature is obtainable and a spectral analysis is probably the right avenue to pursue.


Whether a spectral analysis can point to the existence of dark natter or energy is an admitted shot in the dark. It does take notice of areas within an element's properties that absorbs light completely. Again, thank you for allowing me to post and taking the time to reply. 

[Bored chemist]

My contention is that a verifiable electromagnetic signature of this relationship exist sans gravity.

Nice contention.
Come back when you have evidence.

[guest46746]

Thank you for your reply. Forum God is also quite a contention! Any evidence of your omnipotence? Of course, I recognize the forum's ability to censure but that is far from any omnipotence.

[Kryptid]

A variance in the rate at which the Moon orbits the Earth is most likely due to the Earths own procession which has varied throughout it's existence.

The procession of a planet doesn't affect the rate at which a satellite orbits it if the distance between the two bodies remains constant. That being said, the Earth-Moon system is much further apart now than it was 4 billion years ago.

It like saying the electron's plasmic cloud is fixed and there is no evidence for that, ss we know with the discharge of photons from energy levels nothing is fixed at a preferred rate.

The location of electrons in an orbital is not fixed, but the amount of energy they have most certainly is. The consistency of the energy levels in the absorption spectra of particular elements regardless of when and where they are measured is a testament to this. An electron in its ground state in an atom will remain at a constant energy level unless an outside interaction changes it (such as the formation of a molecular bond or the absorption of a photon).

[guest46746]

Please make up your own minds as far as equivalencies regarding spectral lines of hydrogen and Earth bearing similarities. The Earth's spectroscopy provided doesn't include the Moon. The spectral line of hydrogen bears a similar construction to Earth's spectroscopy in placement and degrees.

external links are not allowed
search webbtelescope  spectroscopic analysis of three planets   articles 24

What-is-the-line-spectrum-of-hydrogen

[guest46746]

no offense, but nothing replied has really debased any of my contentions, of course some may have reading comprehension issues. I have imparted what I wished to, keep slogging. good day to all.

[CliffordK]

You might look at the fractal nature of the universe.

Say one takes the galaxy, and has thousands of stars orbiting a massive core. 

Then the next level of magnification, planets orbiting a star.

Then further magnification, moons orbiting the planets.

Perhaps further magnification would show circular storms and weather patterns on the planets.

& etc.  Down to protons and electrons, although as chiralSPO suggests, electron orbits are far more complex than the simple electron shell diagrams might suggest.

Of course, none of this is related to spectral line analysis, at least not in the sense we're used to talking about it.

Perhaps it would be better to just consider it as multiple levels of abstraction.

[Kryptid]

Please make up your own minds as far as equivalencies regarding spectral lines of hydrogen and Earth bearing similarities. The Earth's spectroscopy provided doesn't include the Moon. The spectral line of hydrogen bears a similar construction to Earth's spectroscopy in placement and degrees.

external links are not allowed
search webbtelescope  spectroscopic analysis of three planets   articles 24

What-is-the-line-spectrum-of-hydrogen

Is this the website that you are talking about? http://webbtelescope.org/articles/24

The spectroscopic graph pictured there is of the chemical constituents of each planet's atmosphere. It doesn't have anything to do with the planet's orbital parameters. Jars of air from these three planets would have the same signature.

[guest46746]

 a review of the spectroscopy at the james webb telescope page shows that the spectral analysis between all three planets are not identical. mars and venus are missing major portions of spectral activity that are evident on the earth's spectral analysis. spectral line analysis are suppose to be a unique electromagnetic image of energy levels in atoms and molecules. the difference between mars and venus as compared to earth, is that like the hydrogen atom with it's electron negative charge, earth has an orbiting satellite that exhibits an electromagnetic connection. the strong correlation between hydrogen spectral line and the earth's spectral lines demonstrates a very highly similar electromagnetic property that dispels a uniqueness. earth's spectral line reflects the "same" proportions and degrees of the electromagnetic levels as a hydrogen atom. is it the atmosphere that is responsible for the electromagnetic  spectral line? Probably not, considering the disparity of atmospheres between venus, earth and mars. for although there are similarities between the three's spectral lines, the obvious difference is that mars and venus lack a satellite and their spectral lines are more similar to each other than earth's. so the uniqueness of hydrogen element signature is not in dispute, however that unique electromagnetic spectral signature is evident in earth's spectroscopy. a rose is a rose.

[Kryptid]

a review of the spectroscopy at the james webb telescope page shows that the spectral analysis between all three planets are not identical. mars and venus are missing major portions of spectral activity that are evident on the earth's spectral analysis. spectral line analysis are suppose to be a unique electromagnetic image of energy levels in atoms and molecules. the difference between mars and venus as compared to earth, is that like the hydrogen atom with it's electron negative charge,

Even if there was a similarity, it wouldn't have anything to do with the Moon. The Moon doesn't affect what our atmosphere is made of.

earth has an orbiting satellite that exhibits an electromagnetic connection.

The presence of the Moon has no affect on the spectrography of the Earth's atmosphere. If we could tow the Moon out of orbit somehow, the Earth would still have significant amounts of water vapor, ozone and carbon dioxide. There is no connection.

the strong correlation between hydrogen spectral line and the earth's spectral lines demonstrates a very highly similar electromagnetic property that dispels a uniqueness. earth's spectral line reflects the "same" proportions and degrees of the electromagnetic levels as a hydrogen atom.

I apologize, but I don't see any similarity at all between the Earth's spectrum here: http://webbtelescope.org/uploads/image/image/53/modal_low_g-planet-spectroscopy_2x.png and hydrogen's spectrum here: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-59f1ea3a28211245a0087cd18e376521-c

is it the atmosphere that is responsible for the electromagnetic  spectral line? Probably not, considering the disparity of atmospheres between venus, earth and mars.

Except that it absolutely is the atmospheric composition that is responsible for these spectra. We know that Earth has water vapor, ozone and carbon dioxide in its atmosphere, whereas Mars and Venus have atmospheres that are composed almost entirely of carbon dioxide. These facts are even clearly demonstrated by the text below that very image that says "dips indicate varying types of gases in their atmospheres."

for although there are similarities between the three's spectral lines, the obvious difference is that mars and venus lack a satellite and their spectral lines are more similar to each other than earth's.

Mars does not lack satellites. It has two: Phobos and Deimos.

[guest46746]

In conclusion, perhaps I should have said satellites of significance, that could effect a electromagnetic planet's core field. What is of significance is that science when looking for carbon based extraterrestrial life, the search should focus on planets with a electromagnetic spectroscopy signatures that closely resembles hydrogen and the planet Earth. I appreciate the minor corrections to facts but it is not my intentions to introduce variables that do not effect the overall practical conditions. For science  to progress outside it's own dogma, critical intelligence requires out of the box pattern associations. Certain that the math bears me out.

[Kryptid]

In conclusion, perhaps I should have said satellites of significance, that could effect a electromagnetic planet's core field.

Which would have no affect on the planet's spectroscopic signature.

What is of significance is that science when looking for carbon based extraterrestrial life, the search should focus on planets with a electromagnetic spectroscopy signatures that closely resembles hydrogen and the planet Earth.

Planets with signatures of ozone, water vapor and carbon dioxide in their atmospheres would be good candidates for life, but that doesn't have anything to do with any supposed similarity between the spectral signatures of hydrogen and Earth.

I appreciate the minor corrections to facts but it is not my intentions to introduce variables that do not effect the overall practical conditions.

What conditions are those?

For science  to progress outside it's own dogma, critical intelligence requires out of the box pattern associations.

You haven't demonstrated that the patterns you speak of actual exist, though.

Certain that the math bears me out.

When did you present any math?

[Colin2B]

....science when looking for carbon based extraterrestrial life, the search should focus on planets with a electromagnetic spectroscopy signatures that closely resembles hydrogen and the planet Earth.

I’m afraid, as pointed out by others here, you have misread the James Webb data. Hydrogen is not what has to be sought.

critical intelligence requires out of the box pattern associations.

Those associations have to be correct otherwise it is not intellegence.

[guest39538]

Those associations have to be correct otherwise it is not intellegence.

Intelligent people know what association is and how to define different specifics to association.  Anyone would think association was secluded when associations vary dependent to scene .