[guest46746]

This thread was split off from "What's a black hole made of?", as the speculations below are well outside mainstream science. See the original discussion at:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74996.0
....moderator

Thank you for all your replies.

The topic of neutrinos presents some interesting possibilities of quantum interest. Sharing time, place/location for particles is a standard physics no-no, however; in quantum such a possibility exist. There are three flavors recognized for neutrinos, each with their own rate of oscillation. As such, it is recognized that all three have the capacity to change into another flavor. What does this portend?  It tells us that perhaps, what the three flavors of neutrinos are is actually a single or two to three neutrinos sharing a time\location, and  oscillating at different distinct levels. A second neutrino pass into the original neutrino, it adopts a completely different oscillation pattern. A third neutrino  pass into the first and second neutrino, and again alters the  oscillation pattern further. When the second or third pattern disengages from the original neutrino, the original neutrino reverts back to it's original state.

This sharing of time\location in a quantum state does not alter the basic properties of velocity or transversive permeability of the neutrino. This is because it's oscillations even at multiple capacity is still below that of the wave function of Light.  So, in conclusion, neutrinos operate beyond the bounds of Light particles which allow them the capacity to negate normal physics in a standard general relativity environment. A Light wave is subject to Gravity. Although neutrinos may be subject to the gravity/attraction of a black hole it's ability  to escape is notated by the  expulsive jets  associated with black holes and to a lesser extent the gravity of a star. The neutrinos  capacity for accommodating and incorporating multiple oscillations into a single time and space location point would also allow it to survive a black hole environment. 

The ability to travel at the speed of light via proxy means resides within the quantum ability of neutrinos to share a single time/space point.

[mad aetherist]

.................So is it  beyond plausibility that black holes are comprised of neutrinos?
Neutrinos fit the needed attributes associated with the parameters a black hole existence.
The only impediment is whether the gravitational force of a black hole is powerful enough to capture and contain neutrinos that are within its proximity and traveling at the speed of light.
The counter is that normal gravity found in a typical solar system has no effect on neutrinos.
So, if black holes are comprised of neutrinos, and they are capable of emitting plasma energy and they oscillate, they have some characteristics of a star. The fact that Stars are a producer of neutrinos merely completes a cycle. Stars emits neutrinos, neutrinos are captured and contained in black holes. Neutrinos are spewed out of black holes via Birkeland currents. The spewed neutrinos are recycled into Universe and eventually new galaxy. The approximate lifetime of a neutrino is 10 to the 40th power, almost qualifies as an eternity. lol

The free-photon is the primary quantum particle. If a photon bites its own tail & forms a loop it becomes a confined-photon (Williamson), which is an elementary particle (eg electron quark etc). All matter (confined-photons) has mass, & all light (free-photons) has mass.
There are no virtual particles, there are no gravitons, no gluons, no pions, no Higgs etc.
Ranzan says that a neutrino is made of two (possibly helical i think) photons sharing the same axis (the EMC fields negate). Hencely a neutrino has twice the mass of a single photon, & the destruction of a neutrino produces a pair of photons.

If free-neutrinos can form a loop & become confined-neutrinos then these might give us dark elementary particles (ie dark electrons & dark quarks etc). Dark elementary particles however would not form an dark atom (ie a dark nucleus with orbiting dark electrons), they would immediately form something similar to the matter found in super-dense neutron stars, & thusly give us dark matter. Dark matter might form dark dust, dark asteroids, dark planets, dark stars. If massive enough a dark star might also be a blackhole, ie where free-photons cannot escape --  &, if supermassive, where neutrinos cannot escape.

[guest46746]

Wordsmithing and formatting must be separated from content. Often times cadence, by the use of frequency of repetitious words or the visual formatting is used to produce a cognitive state that is beneficial to the author for manipulating the intended audience. lol. Consequently, the content and substance of the posted material must be examined as to it's veracity and the intentions of the author to produce such a posting. lol 

[guest46746]

KISS! lol

Time/space - post big bang, pre recombination, recombination

2D Time/space consisting of sub-elementary particles such as neutrino is accelerating outward faster than the speed of light. The big bang produced acceleration unimpended by any medium, expands as 2D not in 3D. Linear 2D properties are Space, Time and Velocity all products of the big bang. The initial expansion of Space produced by an outward causation, imparts motion and chirality to the sub-elementary particle. The 2D nature of Space/Time incorporates two out of the three quantum requirements for producing a self-sustaining, energy-producing fermion particle, field and spin. 2D sheets of Space/Time extended outward uniformly from BB's point zero (a singularity dimension). When the S/T 2D fabric cooled outward from BB's point zero, the process of recombination took hold. During the recombination phase of BB, Photonic Light became the primary and the only energy producing structure. As Photonic Light was, is and will remain, integrated into the fabric of S/T from recombination outward. The recombination, cooling process extended outward from origin point zero, Light grew outward following in all directions the 2D S/I sheets that preceeded it. This resulted in a new third dimension caused by Light volume expanding the 2D sheets resting on each other, extending in all direction from BB's point zero. 


To backup, with the 2D S/T acceleration producing motion, visa a vie chirality spin for sub-elementary particles within 2D, a quantum gravity of attraction transpired when the dropping temperature reduced the impedence to quantum gravity's attraction force between two quantum fields. The Higgs Boson particle was produced by a nuclear reaction compressing two quantum fields into each other. The compressing of two 2D quantum fields produced a energy signature equivalant to a particle. The recombination process of early Universe used a thermal process to the same result. Compression of two fields imbued with spin produces an energy signature equivalant to a particle. The main difference is that the recombination process was able to sustain the process. The Higgs Boson particle upon creation immediately departs from zero point at the SOL. This rapid ejection of the HBP differs from the BB in that the HBP is reacting to macro gravity and the lack of 2D space containment. Without a similiar 2D S/T environment containing similiar   
HBPs there is nothing in the birthing 3D environment to produce the quantum gravity between two particles needed to cause a sustainable energy fusion reaction. The bonding mechanism needed to cause an avalanche reaction such as in the BB recombination explosion of Light is lacking.


So Light, being birthed from a 2D S/T environment is an integral piece of the 2D environment but a completely new dimension. In an expansion of S/T, the Light that follows that S/T acceleration even as it slows and folds, should never catch up to the biginning of S/T, theoretically. As Light fills 2D S/T it slows down never reaching the continual slowing advancement of the 2D infinity which is a singular point dimension. Wait for it.........lol

who's Zen0? lol

Not bothering to proff read or edit because who cares! lol


this really isn't pertinent to this discussion, so I'll add BHs; are 2D and maybe !D artifacts remnants from a S/T acceleration that Light has yet to evaporate, credit to Hawkings, or a S/T artifact with a monopole gravity that recycles Light visa a vie gamma ray ejections! lol
 

[mad aetherist]

Could neutrinos form black holes?

No, because neutrinos don't "clump", and you need a very dense clump of matter to produce a black hole.
Comment. I reckon that free-neutrinos might be able to form confined-neutrinos, ie dark matter, ie a neutrino-blackhole is not needed.
In contrast, matter clumps easily to form stars, and the fact that matter can radiate energy as electromagnetic waves allows the matter to cool down and condense. When a large star exhausts all it's fuel to produce an iron core, it can no longer itself against its own gravity, and it collapses beyond a neutron star to form a black hole. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_II_supernova#Core_collapse
Comment. I reckon that matter can radiate energy as (1) photons (including neutrinos)(neutrinos are 2 joined photons)(the 2 sets of fields negate), & as (2) photinos (a photino is a part of a photon, it emanates from the central helical body of a photon)(photinos give us electromagnetic fields & charge fields), & as (3) gravitational pulses (but gravitational waves do not exist).

We know a black hole oscillates

Please tell us how you know this. I have seen merging black holes oscillate for perhaps 1ms after merging, but then it stops. I have seen oscillations in X-Ray emissions from the accretion disk around a black hole (like water swirling into a drainpipe), but this is swirling matter outside the event horizon, nothing to do with the black hole itself.

We know neutrinos oscillate... We know that neutrinos can travel at the speed of light.

These two statements are mutually exclusive.
 - If neutrinos travelled at the speed of light, they would not oscillate.
- Neutrinos do oscillate, therefore they do not travel at the speed of light.
- Although they do travel very close to the speed of light.
- Physicists would love to know just how much slower than c neutrinos travel.
Comment. I reckon that free-photons & free-neutrinos both go at c (potentially). I reckon that free-photons are slowed in plasma & gas & liquid but neutrinos are not slowed. I reckon that free-photons & free-neutrinos might both be slowed near mass, equally (if such slowing exists). If so then free-photons (light) are generally slower than free-neutrinos (dark light)(needs a better name).
- that would give some clues to their mass, a number which is poorly constrained at present. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino_oscillation
Comment. Handy hint, a free-photon has half the mass of a free-neutrino – however the mass of a photon & neutrino might depend on frequency -- & at that micro-level mass might not be exactly equivalent to macro-mass (ie the mass of an object, or large particles), in which case we might say that free-photons & free-neutrinos have mass-equivalence (in fact i reckon that equivalence tween inertial mass & gravitational mass doesn’t exist at micro-levels, but that is another story)(this inertia~gravity equivalence is not to be confused with the aforementioned mass-equivalence)(they are different things)(its a pity that both equivalences appear in the same paragraph)(sorry if any confusion).

So is it  beyond plausibility that black holes are comprised of neutrinos?

Yes.
Comment. If massive enough i don’t see why neutrino-dark-matter shouldn’t ultimately form blackholes (ie where free-photons cannot escape)(but free-neutrinos might escape).

The only impediment is whether the gravitational force of a black hole is powerful enough to capture and contain neutrinos that are within its proximity and traveling at the speed of light.

By definition, the escape velocity of a black hole exceeds the speed of light. The speed of a neutrino is less than the speed of light, so a neutrino inside a black hole will be contained in there.
Comment. As i said above, it’s the other way round, a free-neutrino is faster than a free-photon.
My definition of a blackhole is that light cannot escape (or very little). I reckon that a blackhole need not be supermassive – it merely needs an atmosphere where c"/n is less than the escape velocity – c being reduced to c' by the nearness of mass, & c' being reduced to c" by the atmosphere.
If a silly Einsteinian blackhole had enough mass to reduce the speed of approaching & departing light (c') to  0.00003733c, then that would equal Earth's escape velocity (11.2 kmps)(silly)(something stinx) -- & if that blackhole was made of water then light wouldn’t be able to escape if the escape velocity was as little as c " (where c"=c'/n=0.00003733c/1.35=0.00002765c= 8.3 kmps).
Neutrinos don't clump, so they can't form a black hole. But if normal matter has already clumped to form a black hole, a neutrino that intersects with the event horizon will be captured by the black hole, and will add to the mass of the black hole.
Comment. There is no reason why ordinary matter (confined-photons) should not gravitationally clump with dark matter (confined-neutrinos), to form greyholes (just jesting), which if eventually massive enough would become blackholes.
And as i said above a blackhole need not have an escape velocity of c, the escape velocity will be c', or if the blackhole is made of water or has an atmosphere the escape velocity will be c".

[guest46746]

Light can permeate matter but it is limited as to its capabilities. Neutrinos in all three flavors pass through matter without pause. A 3D environment poises little obstatcle for a neutrino. In a pre-recombination environment of 2D Space/Time, a neutrino's existance was confined. Upon the BB, S/T acquired acceleration, meaning neutrinos acquired acceleration. Their spin is 1/2, their charge is 0, their field is S/T. Being Bosonic and not Fermion their attributes are 2D. The advent of Light upon S/T acted to release neutrinos from the 2D confines. This happened during recombination. As Light altered S/T, neutrino's 1/2 spin formed a weak quantum gravity bond with anti-neutrinos. The ensuing bond allowed neutrinos to escape it's 2D S/T environment by giving it a paired spin integer of 1, the same as a Photon. Carrying a 0 charge and a integer spin of 1 allowed neutrinos to escape 2D S/T confinement by mimicing Photonic Light into a 3D environment. Once free of 2D S/T, neutrinos and anti-neutrinos were separated from their weak 2D quantum gravity bonding structure by the stronger force of 3D gravity which governs 3D physics structural formations. lol

[mad aetherist]

Light can permeate matter but it is limited as to its capabilities. Neutrinos in all three flavors pass through matter without pause. A 3D environment poises little obstatcle for a neutrino. In a pre-recombination environment of 2D Space/Time, a neutrino's existance was confined. Upon the BB, S/T acquired acceleration, meaning neutrinos acquired acceleration. Their spin is 1/2, their charge is 0, their field is S/T. Being Bosonic and not Fermion their attributes are 2D. The advent of Light upon S/T acted to release neutrinos from the 2D confines. This happened during recombination. As Light altered S/T, neutrino's 1/2 spin formed a weak quantum gravity bond with anti-neutrinos. The ensuing bond allowed neutrinos to escape it's 2D S/T environment by giving it a paired spin integer of 1, the same as a Photon. Carrying a 0 charge and a integer spin of 1 allowed neutrinos to escape 2D S/T confinement by mimicing Photonic Light into a 3D environment. Once free of 2D S/T, neutrinos and anti-neutrinos were separated from their weak 2D quantum gravity bonding structure by the stronger force of 3D gravity which governs 3D physics structural formations. lol

This is what i reckon. A free-neutrino is made of 2 joined free-photons sharing the same helical axis, their out of phase electromagnetic fields cancelling thusly allowing the speed of free-neutrinos to be little affected when passing throo air & water etc, but the speed is probably affected by the nearness of mass (to the same extent as the speed of a free-photon). A free-neutrino is not a particle (& a free-photon is not a particle), but a confined-neutrino & a confined-photon are particles (but very very different)(a confined-neutrino cannot make a proton of some sort nor can it make an atom of some sort).  A confined-neutrino (if it exists) would be a dark particle (giving dark matter)(dark matter here would be similar in some ways to the matter in a neutron star).

[chris]

Er either I'm really jetlagged or none of this makes any sense whatsoever...

[syhprum]

Is it April the first already ?

[guest46746]

I have done what I set out to do over 3-4 topics in regards to BB, BHs, Gravity, Light, and neutrinos in 55+ posts. lol