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  4. Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
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Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?

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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« on: 26/09/2019 17:38:06 »
A recent study has provided evidence that the laws of physics can change in time, indicating that the Universe may be infinite and has no beginning.

Laws of physics may change across the universe

Quote
Another author on the paper, Michael Murphy of Swinburne University in Australia, understands the caution. But he says the evidence for changing constants is piling up. “We just report what we find, and no one has been able to explain away these results in a decade of trying,” Murphy told New Scientist. “The fundamental constants being constant is an assumption. We’re here to test physics, not to assume it.”

"The discovery, if confirmed, has profound implications for our understanding of space and time and violates one of the fundamental principles underlying Einstein's General Relativity theory,"

The findings may also imply the Universe is infinite.

Sources:
https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~mmurphy/research/are-natures-laws-really-universal/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100909004112.htm
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19429-laws-of-physics-may-change-across-the-universe/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2056018/Laws-physics-change-depending-universe.html

The questions:

1) is it evident that the laws of physics can change in time?
2) what would the implications be if it were to be true?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #1 on: 26/09/2019 18:01:18 »
The laws of physics are mathematical approximations to our observations. There is no reason why they should remain constant, and indeed if the Big Bang really happened, they probably didn't. The implication of discovered inadequacies or inconsistencies in our description of things  would be that we would have to find a better one.

We have already replaced Newtonian mechanics with relativity and continuum models with quantum mechanics. And now we can see bits of the universe like black holes and dark energy for which we have no adequate model. No big deal.

Whether the universe behaves consistently over time is actually a meaningless question - consistency is in  the timescale of the beholder.
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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #2 on: 26/09/2019 19:24:52 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/09/2019 18:01:18
We have already replaced Newtonian mechanics with relativity and continuum models with quantum mechanics. And now we can see bits of the universe like black holes and dark energy for which we have no adequate model. No big deal.

Whether the universe behaves consistently over time is actually a meaningless question - consistency is in  the timescale of the beholder.

Thank you for the insight!

With regard to it being no big deal, my question was also related to potential societal implications, and for 'thinking' in general.

Albert Einstein for example may have found it a 'big deal' and decided to hide the truth to protect societal interests. I wonder, what may those interests have been? What would the true implications be of for example the idea that the Universe is infinite?

The Big Bang theory was invented by catholic priest Georges Lemaître from Belgium for "a day without a yesterday". Lemaître was a personal friend of Albert Einstein.

Albert Einstein initially criticized the theory but ultimately yielded to his friend's theory and helped to promote it. He called his own theory for the cosmological constant his "biggest blunder" while recent evidence has proven it to be correct.

Einstein's 'Biggest Blunder' Turns Out to Be Right
Source: https://www.space.com/9593-einstein-biggest-blunder-turns.html

Some recent sources show that the Big Bang theory may be incorrect:

Big Bang theory wrong? Star older than Universe discovered - threat of ‘scientific crisis’

Quote
The Big Bang theory has been thrown into question after scientists discovered a star which appears to be older than the Universe itself – and it could lead to a “scientific crisis”.

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1162808/big-bang-theory-how-old-is-universe-physics-news-astronomy-space-2019

Big Bang theory wrong: Black hole found that's so big and old it makes Big Bang impossible

Quote
Astronomers have spotted a black hole that is as old as the universe itself, putting a huge question mark over the Big Bang theory.

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/889405/black-hole-big-bang-theory-wrong-big-bounce-universe-space

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

Indirectly, the idea that the Universe has a limited size and originates from a accidentally exploded primordial atom may be at the basis of profound ideas such as the idea that the human mind originates from accidental chemistry in the brains or that evolution is driven by random chance.

When the Universe is to be considered infinite, how likely would those ideas remain?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #3 on: 26/09/2019 21:47:44 »
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 19:24:52
Albert Einstein for example may have found it a 'big deal' and decided to hide the truth to protect societal interests. I wonder, what may those interests have been?

Maybe you should find some actually evidence for that conspiracy first.

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 19:24:52
Some recent sources show that the Big Bang theory may be incorrect:

Big Bang theory wrong? Star older than Universe discovered - threat of ‘scientific crisis’

Quote
The Big Bang theory has been thrown into question after scientists discovered a star which appears to be older than the Universe itself – and it could lead to a “scientific crisis”.

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1162808/big-bang-theory-how-old-is-universe-physics-news-astronomy-space-2019 [nofollow]

Big Bang theory wrong: Black hole found that's so big and old it makes Big Bang impossible

Quote
Astronomers have spotted a black hole that is as old as the universe itself, putting a huge question mark over the Big Bang theory.

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/889405/black-hole-big-bang-theory-wrong-big-bounce-universe-space [nofollow]

Firstly, Express is a sensationalist website. Everything there should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Secondly, there is no problem with that star's age. The uncertainty of its age is large enough to be consistent with the Big Bang. The black hole thing has also been addressed using a "direct collapse" model (as opposed to the idea that it formed from a collapsing star that then consumed matter to become larger).

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 19:24:52
When the Universe is to be considered infinite, how likely would those ideas remain?

Just as likely as they are now. Evolution is separate from the Big Bang. Evolution was already widely-accepted when the eternal, steady state model of the Universe was also accepted. Neither requires the other.
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Offline Zer0

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #4 on: 26/09/2019 23:05:38 »
Soo much of sensational fantasies online have me a bit hallucinogenic...

" Dense Super Hot Soup " vs " A Singularity Atom "
Can anyone provide a little clarity, Please!

The BB wasn't really an Xplosion, was it?
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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #5 on: 26/09/2019 23:26:47 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 26/09/2019 21:47:44
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 19:24:52
Albert Einstein for example may have found it a 'big deal' and decided to hide the truth to protect societal interests. I wonder, what may those interests have been?

Maybe you should find some actually evidence for that conspiracy first.

It is intentionally assumptious in an attempt to discover what the motive of Albert Einstein might have been to do the following:

- formulate a theory for a infinite Universe that is proven accurate today
- call that theory his "biggest blunder" and instead, help to promote the theory of a catholic priest that states that the Universe started in a "Cosmic Egg".

Course of events:

Quote
In 1929, Hubble published a paper in which he established that not only were galaxies moving away from the Milky Way, but that more-distant galaxies were also receding more quickly. That is, the universe was not static. It was expanding. This observation (and those preceding Hubble's paper) led Belgian priest Georges Lemaître to propose in 1931 that the universe originated from a small and compact state, what he called a "Cosmic Egg" and what is now called the Big Bang.

With the realization that his earlier prejudice for an unchanging cosmos was wrong, Einstein embraced the Cosmic Egg theory and removed the cosmological constant from his equations. He called the Cosmic Egg theory the most beautiful creation story that he ever heard.

Einstein: "This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened," he said, and called his own theory the biggest blunder of his career.

Source: https://www.space.com/31055-removing-cosmological-constant-was-the-blunder.html

In general people may feel obligated to believe the story that has been presented to them but if there was something else that motivated Albert Einstein to make his choice, what could that have been? And might that still be relevant today?

Quote from: Kryptid on 26/09/2019 21:47:44
Firstly, Express is a sensationalist website. Everything there should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Noted.

It was based on a published study.

Quote
The new study was published last month in the Astrophysical Journal Letters.

https://www.space.com/20112-oldest-known-star-universe.html

Quote from: Kryptid on 26/09/2019 21:47:44
Secondly, there is no problem with that star's age. The uncertainty of its age is large enough to be consistent with the Big Bang.

That's not correct. The first stars presumably formed 200 million years after the Big Bang. At it's lowest uncertainty estimate it's still 100 million years to old and the second argument is that the star is just 200 light years away in the Milky Way.

There are more stars found that appear to be older than the Universe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/09/07/the-greatest-cosmic-puzzle-astronomers-find-stars-that-appear-older-than-the-universe/

Quote from: Kryptid on 26/09/2019 21:47:44
The black hole thing has also been addressed using a "direct collapse" model (as opposed to the idea that it formed from a collapsing star that then consumed matter to become larger).

That's backwards reasoning just to make the Big Bang plausible again. It isn't a theory that you would naturally use to explain the observed black hole.

Quote from: Kryptid on 26/09/2019 21:47:44
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 19:24:52
When the Universe is to be considered infinite, how likely would those ideas remain?

Just as likely as they are now. Evolution is separate from the Big Bang. Evolution was already widely-accepted when the eternal, steady state model of the Universe was also accepted. Neither requires the other.

Darwin's ideas were proven wrong. As partially discussed in a different topic, there is evidence that evolution is also horizontal, on the basis of what is consumed. Evolution may not originate from random variation.


* darwin-wrong.jpg (43.42 kB . 150x197 - viewed 4875 times)

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/was-darwin-wrong/

Quote
A journalist recounts the epic story of modern challenges to evolutionary dogma

While you may be correct that Darwin's theories were evolving around the time that the Big Bang theory was created, society was different at that time. Religions played an important role for societal stability.

The Big Bang theory would have served Darwin's tree of life story, a story with an origin while simultaneously providing a creation story for religions. It may have been intended as a lie for the better.

« Last Edit: 27/09/2019 10:57:59 by cleanair »
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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #6 on: 27/09/2019 02:31:33 »
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
- formulate a theory for a infinite Universe that is proven accurate today

When was it proven that the Universe is infinite?

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
- call that theory his "biggest blunder" and instead, choose the theory of a catholic priest that states that the Universe started in a "Cosmic Egg".

Because of the evidence.

 
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
In general people may feel obligated to believe the story that has been presented to them but if there was something else that motivated Albert Einstein to make his choice, what could that have been?

You could speculate endlessly about anyone having ulterior motives for doing anything at all.

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
That's not correct. The first stars presumably formed 200 million years after the Big Bang. At it's lowest uncertainty estimate it's still 100 million years to old and the second argument is that the star is just 200 light years away in the Milky Way.

This Nature articles puts a lower limit on the star's age at 13.2 billion years old, which is 500 million years after the Big Bang: https://www.nature.com/news/nearby-star-is-almost-as-old-as-the-universe-1.12196

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
There are more stars found that appear to be older than the Universe.

And that same article offers possible explanations: "Now, it's always possible that there's something fishy that happened in the star's past that we can't know about today. It's possible that it was born as a higher-mass star and something stripped the outer layers off, reducing the star's lifetime precipitously. It's possible that the star absorbed some material later-in-life that changed its heavy element content, skewing our perceptions today. Or it's possible that we've got a misunderstanding in the subgiant phase of the stellar evolution of these old, low-metallicity stars. These unknowns (and in some cases, unknowables) are possible sources of errors when we try and compute the ages of the oldest stars."

So it's hardly a refutation of the Big Bang theory.

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
That's backwards reasoning just to make the Big Bang plausible again. It isn't a theory that you would naturally use to explain the observed black hole.

If the math works then it works: https://www.livescience.com/65857-direct-collapse-black-holes-proved-theoretically.html

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
Darwin's ideas were proven wrong.

Only some of them.

Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
It may have been intended as a lie for the better.

There are an awful lot of things that "may" be true.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #7 on: 27/09/2019 10:13:21 »
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 19:24:52
With regard to it being no big deal, my question was also related to potential societal implications, and for 'thinking' in general.
Society as we know it, and rational thought, will probably not last the next thousand years. I think it unlikely that the last remaining rational being will have noticed any change in the laws of physics before the mob beat him to death for apostacy.
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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #8 on: 27/09/2019 13:09:53 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 27/09/2019 02:31:33
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
- formulate a theory for a infinite Universe that is proven accurate today

When was it proven that the Universe is infinite?

Recent studies have shown that Albert Einstein's original theory is correct. That may implicate that the Universe is infinite. Without a beginning, there cannot be a end. Thus logically, there cannot be a limited size.

Einstein’s Lost Theory Describes a Universe Without a Big Bang

Quote
But it’s interesting to note that creation myths across cultures tell the opposite story. Traditions of Chinese, Indian, pre-Colombian, and African cultures, as well as the biblical book of Genesis, all describe (clearly in allegorical terms) a distinct beginning to the universe—whether it’s the “creation in six days” of Genesis or the “Cosmic Egg” of the ancient Indian text the Rig Veda.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2014/03/07/einsteins-lost-theory-describes-a-universe-without-a-big-bang/

Quote from: Kryptid on 27/09/2019 02:31:33
Quote from: cleanair on 26/09/2019 23:26:47
- call that theory his "biggest blunder" and instead, choose the theory of a catholic priest that states that the Universe started in a "Cosmic Egg".

Because of the evidence.

That is the official story, but is it plausible?

Quote
Why Einstein was wrong about being wrong

The only explanation that made sense: Einstein's "greatest blunder" was actually one of his greatest predictions. There really is a mysterious antigravity force. Einstein's only mistake was in rejecting it.

https://phys.org/news/2011-10-einstein-wrong.html

Quote from: Kryptid on 27/09/2019 02:31:33
You could speculate endlessly about anyone having ulterior motives for doing anything at all.

I decided to post the question to see if it would lead to answers, which could include a quick disproving of plausibility so that I would need to change my perspective.

I find it hard to believe that Albert Einstein accidentally made a mistake that he called his "biggest blunder" while recent studies are claiming that his biggest mistake was to call his theory a mistake. Also, to believe in a Cosmic Egg story is one thing, but to promote it as a scientist who created a later to be found correct contradicting theory, is another. It is not that easy to give up an idea as a scientist. It is a life's work. It is not plausible that a scientist all of the sudden tosses his work away and invests considerable time to promote a contradicting theory.

The reason for the question in this topic: if there were a motive, might it still be relevant today? There may be value in the answer, to improve the quest for truth in the future or maybe to protect or improve societal interests.

If a creation story was chosen for societal interests, why do people in general need such a story? Are there alternatives while maintaining an accurate search for truth?

Quote from: Kryptid on 27/09/2019 02:31:33
There are an awful lot of things that "may" be true.

I am just looking for answers. I posted the question with in mind that it would quickly be proven implausible, but for now the question remains open with a potential outcome that could show that Albert Einstein may have intentionally promoted the Big Bang theory for interests other than the search for truth.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #9 on: 28/09/2019 11:48:53 »
Quote from: cleanair on 27/09/2019 13:09:53
If a creation story was chosen for societal interests, why do people in general need such a story? Are there alternatives while maintaining an accurate search for truth?
Nobody needs it. It is however interesting to see what happens to your model of the universe if you push t towards zero.
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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #10 on: 28/09/2019 12:45:02 »
Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
Only if they have a calendar to tell them what they should currently be.
To me, that seems unlikely
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Offline evan_au

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #11 on: 28/09/2019 13:38:29 »
Quote from: cleanair
It is not plausible that a scientist [Einstein] all of the sudden tosses his work away and invests considerable time to promote a contradicting theory.
When you apply the fundamental mathematical operation of "Integration", there is a "starting point" which must be accounted for, which is normally described as "+constant".

For example: If you drop an iron ball (initially stationary), and let it accelerate under g=9.8m/s2 for 2 seconds, what is its final altitude?
- Integration can tell you how far it has fallen in 2 seconds
- But you don't know from this question if it started from 100m or 200m altitude.
- But you need some reference in order to set this constant properly.
- You could (for example) use the initial altitude to set the "+constant".

In producing the theory of Relativity, Einstein also ended up with a "+constant".
- He fell in with the general view of physicists at the time that the universe "should be" eternal and unchanging, overall
- With no other reference value, Einstein set his "cosmological constant" to a specific value that would exactly cancel the tendency of the universe to expand or contract.
- Lemaitre proposed an alternative  zero value for the cosmological constant that would allow the universe to expand from a specific starting point (and perhaps collapse back again, depending on the initial density). This may be because, as a Catholic priest, Lemaitre had been exposed to a different school of thought that expected a specific start to the universe (as per Genesis).
- It was later that Hubble showed by observations of galactic red shifts that the universe was actually expanding, and so there was a time when the universe was extremely compact. Einstein's specific value for the constant was wrong, and the true value was consistent with Lemaitre's views.
- At this point, Einstein realised that he had been fooled by the "common wisdom" in setting the cosmological constant with no specific reference, hence his "greatest mistake" comment.
- From this time, most astronomers assumed that this constant was zero
- Now, fast forward to the 1990s; Einstein is long dead. More detailed red shift measurements by Schmidt and others with much better telescopes allowed astronomers to deduce that the expansion of the universe was accelerating. With this new information, this suggests that the cosmological constant was not zero, but a small value that caused the expansion to accelerate once the density of the expanding universe dropped far enough.

So, Einstein didn't throw away his life's work!
- The General theory of Relativity was solid, and has been validated many different ways since then, in frame dragging, gravitational waves and black holes.
- What we are arguing about is how to set the cosmological constant.
- The existence of the cosmological constant is not in dispute - it comes straight out of the mathematics.
- As new evidence comes in, this means the cosmological constant should be set differently.
- This is the scientific method

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant

Quote
Recent studies have shown that Albert Einstein's original theory is correct. That may implicate that the Universe is infinite. Without a beginning, there cannot be a end.
Ever since Eddington's 1919 demonstration of the bending of light by the Sun, physicists have been impressed with the accuracy of General Relativity.
- But Einstein's initial value for the cosmological constant was definitely wrong.
- At present, it looks like the universe could continue expanding forever, so it could be infinite
- Just because there is no foreseeable end does not imply that there was no beginning.
- This is the opposite of what you seem to be saying.

Like Schrodinger's equation, the challenge of Relativity is in the interpretation.
- Interpretation and application of these relatively simple equations has advanced significantly with the availability of supercomputers, allowing modelling of these equations in the silicon of the computer chips.
- It is true that Einstein did not fully understand the implications of his own theory.
- For example, at different times he had different ideas about the reality of black holes -  he interpreted the infinities as  a sign that his theory had broken down in these extreme conditions.
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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #12 on: 28/09/2019 14:39:20 »
Thank you for the detailed and easy-to-understand explanation of the history!

I still wonder whether Albert Einstein truly believed that the value of the constant should be zero and thereby believed in a Cosmic Egg origin for the Universe. Was it really plausible for him to believe such merely based on early observations from Hubble?

A detail: Albert Einstein repeatedly misspelled the name of Edwin Hubble.

Quote
It’s interesting that Einstein repeatedly misspells the name of Edwin Hubble (“Hubbel”). Had he not yet met Hubble in person? We don’t know. The spelling error does hint at the fact that he didn't take Hubble’s discovery serious.

April 4, 1931: Over the next few months he reviewed the published literature on the expanding universe problem. His opinion continued to evolve and in mid-March he sat down and started writing a paper for the Prussian Academy of Sciences where he finally renounced the cosmological constant. In putting it together he only made oblique referenced the works of Hubble and whose last name he habitually misspelled as "Hubbel," indicating that he may not have read any of Hubble's papers.

It appears to disprove the official story that Hubble's discovery forced Albert Einstein to admit that he made a mistake.

With regard to the Big Bang theory, some scientists are complaining that it's a religion.

Quote
1) The Monopole Problem
2) The Flatness Problem
3) The Horizon Problem

You will find the above three problems religiously repeated as a motivation for inflation, in lectures and textbooks and popular science pages all over the place.

Source: Sabine Hossenfelder, theoretical physicist specialized in quantum gravity and high energy physics.

One of inflation’s cofounders has turned his back on the idea. But practically no one else is following him. Is he right?

I was dismayed to see that the criticism by Steinhardt, Ijas, and Loeb that inflation is not a scientific theory, was dismissed so quickly by a community which has become too comfortable with itself.

There’s no warning sign you when you cross the border between science and blabla-land. But inflationary model building left behind reasonable scientific speculation long ago. I, for one, am glad that at least some people are speaking out about it. And that’s why I approve of the Steinhardt et al. criticism.

There is obvious some sort of force at play that pushes the scientific establishment to hold on to the Big Bang theory.
« Last Edit: 28/09/2019 23:07:48 by cleanair »
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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #13 on: 28/09/2019 14:44:54 »
Quote from: cleanair on 28/09/2019 14:39:20
The spelling error does hint at the fact that he didn't take Hubble’s discovery serious.

*facepalm*
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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #14 on: 28/09/2019 14:57:22 »
Quote from: cleanair on 28/09/2019 14:39:20
There is obvious some sort of force at play that pushes the scientific establishment to hold on to the Big Bang theory.
It's called evidence.
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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #15 on: 28/09/2019 15:09:35 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 28/09/2019 12:45:02
Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
Only if they have a calendar to tell them what they should currently be.
To me, that seems unlikely

One of the authors of the study is professor Bob Carswell at the University of Cambridge.

Quote
Other researchers involved in the research are Professor Victor Flambaum and PhD student Matthew Bainbridge from the University of New South Wales, and Professor Bob Carswell at the University of Cambridge (UK).

Why do you believe that their research is likely to be invalid?
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Offline cleanair (OP)

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #16 on: 28/09/2019 15:12:10 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 28/09/2019 14:57:22
It's called evidence.

How could it be explained that some scientists complain of a "religious practice"?

It is also visible in the defense for the study:

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"we are here to test physics, not to assume it"

"The evidence for changing constants is piling up. We just report what we find, and no one has been able to explain away these results in a decade of trying,”

It was a final argument in a response to the head of the Fermilab Center for Particle Astrophysics who stated that "he didn't believe that the results were real". In essence it communicated the following: "there is a resistance based on belief while our research is reliable".
« Last Edit: 28/09/2019 15:25:21 by cleanair »
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Offline Zer0

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #17 on: 28/09/2019 16:24:24 »
Ahem ahem...plz forgive me for barging in & interrupting...

Subject:
Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?

Personal viewpoint - Yes.

TY & plz carry on..." I'm luvin it "!
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Offline CPT ArkAngel

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #18 on: 28/09/2019 18:59:14 »
The articles you mentioned are from 2010. Since then, many other ways to measure the fine structure constant at cosmological scale have invalidated any change in its value across the Universe.

Even if a parameter like the fine structure constant would change over space and time, it wouldn't mean the laws of physics change, it would mean that the laws we know are missing something. The laws we know change because we are still looking for better solutions and some unexpected experimental results. We know that the laws we know are not fundamental because they don't explain everything.
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Offline Razza

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Re: Is it possible for the laws of physics to change in time?
« Reply #19 on: 30/09/2019 06:55:59 »
Copernicus certainly changed Ptolemy's rules and similarly the rules concerning the direction of magnetism are being tested by Blake Taylor.
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