[Kryptid]

I simply cannot follow your arguments.

If you agree that the speed of light is invariant in all reference frames, then special relativity automatically follows as a result. Space has to contract, time has to dilate and simultaneity has to be relative in order for all observers in all reference frames to measure the speed of light in a vacuum as being the same.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

I simply cannot follow your arguments.

If you agree that the speed of light is invariant in all reference frames, then special relativity automatically follows as a result. Space has to contract, time has to dilate and simultaneity has to be relative in order for all observers in all reference frames to measure the speed of light in a vacuum as being the same.

When Copernicus / Galilei said, "The world actually rotates around the sun, but we misinterpret the view that caused by the world’s turning around its axis", the paradigm of period excluded and judged them. Humanity could not perceive a technical complexity.  SR has also similar complexity.

 Humanity could not comprehend the complexity of SR and preferred to admire for brilliant inferences of SR. But the measured light velocity value is actually the relative value according to the outer space. This has experimental evidence: measurements give the same result in every direction. Consequently, due to its special conditions (round-trip, double-track and continuous photon current, etc.), our light velocity measurement cannot measure the local relative speed according to the experimental environment or source, but its universal speed is relative value according to the outer space.   

[xersanozgen (OP)]

Einstein and others also expected the result to be c +/- v at the start of the measurement; that is, in the accompaniment of the ethereal mentality - they intended to measure the relative speed of the light according to the source, but when they detected the result always in c, they used it with the same intention: as the escaping speed from the source. This is the weakest point of the theory.


 However, there are other options that have a natural example in the world: after the player shots to the ball in the football game, he moves to his new strategic position; the speed of the ball  -for the next moments- is no longer according to the player; is relative to the ground. That is, it is a relative value to the common reference frame. In this setup, if the player is considered instead of light source, ball as the photon, and the ground as outer space, we will reach the judgment that is consistent for light kinematics. When we flashed the photo flash, we can no longer claim that the distance between the camera and the photon pack will varies with c. After flashing   the camera (the dead photo flash) may moves freely in any direction. There is a similar situation in the relationship between Voyager and the World (Discussion 7).

[pensador]

The Physics detective, wrote some links on relativity and explains reasonably clearly why the speed of light is MEASURED as constant here is a link http://physicsdetective.com/the-speed-of-light/ Maybe this helps demystify you.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

The Physics detective, wrote some links on relativity and explains reasonably clearly why the speed of light is MEASURED as constant here is a link http://physicsdetective.com/the-speed-of-light/ Maybe this helps demystify you.

A photon (that is generated in the centre of the Sun) can arrive to out of Sun about 10 million years. Because light is absorbed and   
re-emitted by molecules.

We work for SR with the light/photon that travels in vacuum.

[pensador]

The Physics detective, wrote some links on relativity and explains reasonably clearly why the speed of light is MEASURED as constant here is a link http://physicsdetective.com/the-speed-of-light/ Maybe this helps demystify you.

A photon (that is generated in the centre of the Sun) can arrive to out of Sun about 10 million years. Because light is absorbed and   
re-emitted by molecules.

We work for SR with the light/photon that travels in vacuum.

When light passes through a medium it is absorbed and re-emitted. Cherenkov radiation is a good example on this planet without having to go tot the sun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

[Kryptid]

This has experimental evidence: measurements give the same result in every direction.

Which is exactly why special relativity is accurate in the first place.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

 

This has experimental evidence: measurements give the same result in every direction.

Which is exactly why special relativity is accurate in the first place.

The orbit of the Moon is a circle according to the Earth. However its form is like a helical spring (that its axis is a circle) according to the Sun. According to the Galaxy the form is a helical spring again but with open axis. ... According to LCS/space it may be like the form of DNA.

If our universe can be consisted of a source and its light; I would convince myself for SR mentality. 

Thanks for your  pass.

Please examine the motion relationship  of Voyager and Earth. Voyager sometimes approaches forward the Earth.

[Kryptid]

The orbit of the Moon is a circle according to the Earth. However its form is like a helical spring (that its axis is a circle) according to the Sun. According to the Galaxy the form is a helical spring again but with open axis. ... According to LCS/space it may be like the form of DNA.

Again, accelerating motion is not relative.

Voyager sometimes approaches forward the Earth.

Did you mean towards the Earth? What evidence do you have for this?

[Halc]

Voyager sometimes approaches forward the Earth.

Did you mean towards the Earth? What evidence do you have for this?

His syntactic travesty aside, the distance between us and voyager does regularly decrease.
It is moving out of the solar system at something on the order of 16 km/sec (and slowing), while Earth orbits at 30 km/sec, so part of every year our orbit outruns the receding probe, thus bringing it closer to us.

[Bored chemist]

The orbit of the Moon is a circle according to the Earth.

No.

[Bored chemist]

If our universe can be consisted of a source and its light; I would convince myself for SR mentality. 

Thanks for your  pass.

Please examine the motion relationship  of Voyager and Earth. Voyager sometimes approaches forward the Earth.

None of that even  parses.

[Kryptid]

His syntactic travesty aside, the distance between us and voyager does regularly decrease.
It is moving out of the solar system at something on the order of 16 km/sec (and slowing), while Earth orbits at 30 km/sec, so part of every year our orbit outruns the receding probe, thus bringing it closer to us.

Huh, that's interesting.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

Voyager sometimes approaches forward the Earth.

Did you mean towards the Earth? What evidence do you have for this?

His syntactic travesty aside, the distance between us and voyager does regularly decrease.
It is moving out of the solar system at something on the order of 16 km/sec (and slowing), while Earth orbits at 30 km/sec, so part of every year our orbit outruns the receding probe, thus bringing it closer to us.

Yes it would be "toward".

Congratulations halc ; you have distinguished the nuance between "exact/genuine relativity" and "hypothetical/pseudo relativity".

The motion of "Voyager" is hypothetical/pseudo relative according to the Earth. The speed of increasing/decreasing for intermediate distance is the value V_earth +/- V_voyager  (Of course we isolated relationship of Solar system and Voyager; in fact, while Vv is universal, Ve is local or according to the Sun).

We have to similarly consider the relationship of source and its light. To comprehend the weakest point of SR is easier anymore due to your explanation.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

In science history there are many examples of analyzing with insufficient factors.

Phologiston theory was generated by Stahll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory).

But, the term/notion  of oxigene and oxidation were not known until Lavoisier. When the dust of metals was burned the weight of  its ash had increased; to revive  his theory, Stahl had asserted that the phologiston has negative weight (?).

Similarly there is a factor that is neglected in SR mentality.

The kinds of relativity:

(a) Genuine/exact relativity: A vehicle gets its speed by pushing the road. The speed of this vehicle is defined as “genuine relative” to the road. The contribution of the road is essential. The power is applied to the road continuously for genuine relativity. The upper limit of genuine relative speed is ‘c’ (the value of light’s velocity).

(b) Hypothetical/pseudo relativity: The changing speed of the distance between two vehicles which are moving on the same road. This speed is defined as “hypothetical relative.” The vehicles do not apply power to each other. The upper limit of hypothetical relative speed is 2c.

(c) Momentary/temporary relativity:  When a player throws a ball, the ball’s speed according to the player is “momentary relative”. The power has been applied momentarily. After throwing, the motion of the ball is transferred to the type of hypothetical relativity; the player can go anywhere freely. However, it can be said that the ball’s speed is “genuine relative” according to the ground. The ground is the co-reference frame for the player and ball. For genuine relativity, the starting point of the ball is marked on the ground, not by the existence of player (or his/her following positions).

Which one is significant for light (an identified photon)?

[Kryptid]

Similarly there is a factor that is neglected in SR mentality.

We've been through this before. Nothing that you mention is beyond special relativity's ability to account for.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

My clues will be useful for somebody who has the performance of comprehending and analyzing about complexities.

If a camera (on the Voyager) flashs and send a photon pack forward, the increasing/decreasing speed of intermediate distance between this photons and the Earth will be the value  c +/- Vu.

[xersanozgen (OP)]

Which one is significant for light (an identified photon)?

 SR prefers to use merely the concept of “genuine relativity” for the motion of light according to its source and every frame [4]. However, requirements of genuine relativity are not realized for light; the source and photons never apply a power for the motion. Further, the source can go in any direction freely after the photon was emitted, like the player (the increasing/decreasing speed of intermediate distance is the vectorial total of their speeds, but if an observer is an actor in the experiment he never can perceive a larger value than c). Eventually the velocity of a photon according to its source is “momentary relative” and then “hypothetical relative” in the following time.

[Kryptid]

If a camera (on the Voyager) flashs and send a photon pack forward, the increasing/decreasing speed of intermediate distance between this photons and the Earth will be the value  c +/- Vu.

Not in Earth's reference frame it won't. The speed of the photon would always be measured as c.

[jerrygg38]

Naked 3.7.20 10 am
Kryptid said to Xersanozgen
If you agree that the speed of light is invariant in all reference frames, then special relativity automatically follows as a result. Space has to contract, time has to dilate and simultaneity has to be relative in order for all observers in all reference frames to measure the speed of light in a vacuum as being the same.
GG: This would appear strange to our senses. We look at things from a ruler and a time clock. So we have three spatial dimensions and one time dimension. Yet if we measure the speed of light from two different reference frames that are moving with respect to each other, we get the same answer.
   So a ruler in one frame is different from a ruler in another frame. And a time clock in one frame is different from a time clock in another frame. Yet for the photon
Velocity = distance/time = Constant
From this what you say appears to be true.  The time clock slows and the distance traveled shrinks. That is what we observe. The accuracy of our automobile  direction equipment depends upon it. Your words are true but they make no sense.
     An object moves toward us at high speed. Does the object travel the entire distance to us in a continuous fashion? Or does the object jump from spot to spot? The faster the object moves the larger the jumps. Space has not shrunk but the distance jumped each time has expanded as the velocity increases.
   We can say that within space there are two light speed dimensions. We could also say that within space we have a variable jump distance depending upon the relative velocity of the reference frames.
  Einstein’s theory  is mathematically correct for sure. However it fails to explain  how it works.