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  4. Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
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Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #20 on: 18/04/2020 15:15:24 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 16/04/2020 16:45:07
Why doesn't the Photon keep accelerating?
The propagation of electromagnetic radiation is completely described by Maxwell's equations, which have two constants ε and μ that determine the propagation speed.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #21 on: 18/04/2020 16:26:11 »
My model has electrons encoded with a marker that specifies for the EM field what Riemann Sphere to copy in order to generate a protophoton that becomes a photon.

Just that "accelerating electrons produce an EM field" is not a sufficient mechanism. There must be an interaction with the EM field for example, and a production operator must be activated. Thus the EM field must read the electron and the photon must come from somewhere.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #22 on: 18/04/2020 16:41:29 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 16:26:11
and a production operator must be activated.
Only because you made it up.
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 16:26:11
My model has electrons encoded with a marker that specifies for the EM field what Riemann Sphere to copy in order to generate a protophoton that becomes a photon.
The old model just has physics.
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Offline Bobolink

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #23 on: 18/04/2020 16:56:44 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 16:26:11
Just that "accelerating electrons produce an EM field" is not a sufficient mechanism. There must be an interaction with the EM field for example, and a production operator must be activated. Thus the EM field must read the electron and the photon must come from somewhere.
Here is a crazy thought, why don't you learn a little bit about the field of physics before you try to explain it?
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #24 on: 18/04/2020 17:01:21 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/04/2020 16:41:29
The old model just has physics.

Insufficient physics: the photon must come from somewhere: conservation of structure, implied by conservation of energy.

Quote from: Bobolink on 18/04/2020 16:56:44
Here is a crazy thought, why don't you learn a little bit about the field of physics before you try to explain it?

What am I missing?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #25 on: 18/04/2020 17:08:40 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 17:01:21
conservation of structure

This is not a conservation law I have ever heard of before. Can you provide a link to a reputable source describing it?
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #26 on: 18/04/2020 17:20:30 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 18/04/2020 17:08:40
Can you provide a link to a reputable source describing it?

No, not where it is stated explicitly.
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Offline Bobolink

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #27 on: 18/04/2020 17:23:12 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 17:01:21
conservation of structure
That must be related to the conservation of conversation.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #28 on: 18/04/2020 22:34:43 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 17:20:30
No, not where it is stated explicitly.

We know that many particles can result from a collision of only two particles (this happens in particle accelerators all the time). This can also happen when single particles, like muons, decay. So that is evidence against this "conservation of structure" you posit.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #29 on: 18/04/2020 22:53:14 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 17:01:21
Insufficient physics: the photon must come from somewhere: conservation of structure, implied by conservation of energy.
Production of photons is not in any way inconsistent with the conservation of energy.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #30 on: 18/04/2020 22:54:05 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 17:01:21
What am I missing?
An understanding of the law of conservation of energy as it applies to the formation of photons, for a start.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #31 on: 18/04/2020 23:15:18 »
Quite simply, a photon is energy. If you add the masses and kinetic energies of all the massive particles arising from, say, nuclear disintegration, conservation of energy applies and the missing bit turns out to be photons. 
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #32 on: 19/04/2020 12:53:32 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/04/2020 23:15:18
Quite simply, a photon is energy.

It is a Riemann Sphere with events of spacetime left out to encode a kind of passive mass charge that gives it momentum.
Quote from: Kryptid on 18/04/2020 22:34:43
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2020 17:20:30
No, not where it is stated explicitly.

We know that many particles can result from a collision of only two particles (this happens in particle accelerators all the time). This can also happen when single particles, like muons, decay. So that is evidence against this "conservation of structure" you posit.

I have to look at every case, but I think conservation of Baryon number and Lepton number implies conservation of structure.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #33 on: 19/04/2020 13:10:42 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 19/04/2020 12:53:32
I have to look at every case, but I think conservation of Baryon number and Lepton number implies conservation of structure.
Are you saying that a gamma ray is the same as an electron?
Or do you not understand the implications of what you are saying?
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #34 on: 19/04/2020 13:31:49 »
At the upper energy levels of photons, photons can split into matter and anti-matter, eq., electron and positron.  If we react the matter with the antimatter, they will spontaneously lower potential, annihilate, giving off energy as photons.These simple observations tells me that matter and antimatter are at higher potential than energy and photons. We would need to add potential energy to photons, upward to gamma and beyond, to make matter and anti-matter. While the potential added to form matter and anti-matter will spontaneously go from higher to lower potential, matter-anti-matter back to energy and photons.

Since mass cannot go the speed of light, then inertial reference, which is an artifact of mass and matter, has to be at higher potential, than the speed of light reference. The speed of light reference is at the lower potential implicit of photons. Once photon become matter and anti-matter, at highest potential, inertial reference can appear. 

When photons form, from matter, they immediate occupy the ground state reference at the speed of light. Traditions and conventions have this reference priority backwards. This question is not easy to answer when things are upside down by tradition.The photon does not keep accelerating faster than C, because C is already the zero point in absolute terms. As an analogy, once the earth's surface water; rivers, reach the ocean and sea level, that is as far as they can go, even if the river accelerates into the ocean; has already reached the lowest potential.

The traditions assume increasing velocity, toward the speed of light, increases potential. This is the kinetic energy equation and is true for matter up to a point. However, mass cannot reach the speed of light. There, we have a discontinuity and this logic breaks down.

Once the anti-matter of the universe was eliminated, in bulk, matter could no longer directly lower potential and convert directly back to energy. The discontinuity at C for matter reflects this. In the oldest days, matter could go back and forth, because anti-matter created an activation energy bridge. Without this activation energy bridge, matter and mass needs to lower potential, piecemeal, through the forces of nature. Little by little, it gives off photons and adds to the ground state at C.

This analysis can be done more formally by looking from the POV of the C reference. If we plug in C into the equation for special relativity there is a discontinuity in time, distance and mass since these all become infinite. This discontinuity also breaks the unity of space-time, such that time and space can act independently. Space-time is an artifact of inertial and is at higher potential.

One way to explain this is with the concert of entropy. If time and space would act independently, one could move in time without the constraints of space, and one could move in space without the constraint of time. Space-Time places inertial limits on this, so time is more sequential and moves forward.

At the speed of light, time is not sequential. It is more like internet surfing versus reading a book, where one can skip around. Therefore, at the speed of light reference, non sequential results in entropy being maximized, since all states can occur simultaneously. Since entropy needs to absorb energy to increase, the speed of light contains all photons, plus.

In the inertial reference of higher potential matter, all states are not possible, simultaneous, became of the limits of unified space-time. Therefore, inertial contains the potential to increase entropy; second law, toward the infinite entropy of the ground state. Matter and mass has the entropy potential it needs to return, piecemeal; via second law. As matter increases entropy, and absorbs energy, new states appear with an activation energy channel, needed to further lower the potential of matter back toward the C ground state.

Life is a state of perpetual entropy increase; metabolism and other affects. This would imply that th state called life is near the discontinuity zone, between matter and energy. Consciousness is at the zone between imagination, where all seems possible; maximized entropy, and sensory where reality has practical limits; space-time. The entropy potential with the ground state drives the evolution of life and consciousness and all other inertia change.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #35 on: 19/04/2020 13:52:05 »
Quote from: puppypower on 19/04/2020 13:31:49
These simple observations tells me that matter and antimatter are at higher potential than energy and photons.
"Kind of wrong". The particles have mass. Energy and momentum are conserved in the initial photon-nucleon interaction (photons don't decay spontaneously) so the recoil nucleon and the e-p pair have momentum and kinetic energy as well as their mass energy. When the "positronium" self-annihilates it turns into exactly two photons at 511 keV and 180 degrees to each other. The nucleon being at least 500 times heavier than the pair, the kinetic energy of the pair is negligible.

Not a good idea to build an edifice leading to complex biochemistry, on such an unsound foundation.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #36 on: 19/04/2020 16:33:43 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/04/2020 13:10:42
Are you saying that a gamma ray is the same as an electron?Or do you not understand the implications of what you are saying?

No I'm not saying that. I don't understand the implications totally.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #37 on: 29/04/2020 12:30:28 »
There is no force mechanism (in Maxwell's Equations) specified to accellerate a protophoton (copied electron-part) out of the electron trowards light speed. Stating that photons always goes at the speed of light (by Maxwell's Equations) is not relevant since we are dealing with a protophoton.
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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #38 on: 29/04/2020 13:37:12 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 19/04/2020 16:33:43
Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/04/2020 13:10:42
Are you saying that a gamma ray is the same as an electron?Or do you not understand the implications of what you are saying?

No I'm not saying that. I don't understand the implications totally.
Well, the implication of what you say is that gammas are the same as electrons.

So, which particular variety of being wrong are you going to choose?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why doesn't a Photon keep Accelerating?
« Reply #39 on: 29/04/2020 13:37:46 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 29/04/2020 12:30:28
There is no force mechanism (in Maxwell's Equations) specified to accellerate a protophoton (copied electron-part) out of the electron trowards light speed. Stating that photons always goes at the speed of light (by Maxwell's Equations) is not relevant since we are dealing with a protophoton.
Word salad.
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