[Jolly2 (OP)]

I recently started a thread that asked the question. Could the covid vaccine effect female fertility?

This was not a statement but a question related to the concerns expressed by some scientists. As such how can it possibly be labelled fake news?

It has also now been closed, which again seems very unscientific way to behave, stopping discussion...

[alancalverd]

The answer is "possibly, but no evidence to date".

Next question, please.

[Bored chemist]

As such how can it possibly be labelled fake news?

The question wasn't fake news, but that wasn't the only thing you posted was it?
You also posted this
" infertility of indefinite duration could result in vaccinated women."
And that IS fake news.

It has also now been closed, which again seems very unscientific way to behave, stopping discussion...

The discussion of the issue stopped when the question was answered.
However, you carried on posting fake news so the thread was closed.

Answering a question is not "unscientific".

[Janus]

The answer is "possibly, but no evidence to date".

Next question, please.

That doesn't answer the question. That reply relates to the question could the Covid vaccine damage fertility?
And it doesn't answer it, it leaves it as UNKNOWN.

The question was how can a question be fake news?

When it is just a ploy to push an agenda.   

[Bored chemist]

The idea scientists want less science is rather weird and worrying

That's still hogwash as I pointed out before
There would still be ongoing monitoring and testing- the same sort that found the association between Reye's syndrome and aspirin.

Why do you keep bringing up arguments which you already lost?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

"We demand the most rigorous standards of evidence especially for that which is most important to us" Karl Sargan

If your children, parents family and friends and fellow country men and women are not important to you, I know not what to say. As the intention is to vaccinate everyone, this vaccine demands the most rigorous of rigorous examinations.

[Bored chemist]

"We demand the most rigorous standards of evidence especially for that which is most important to us"

Well, if you want evidence, phone the local crematorium and ask if they are busy.
The evidence is abundant.
The virus is killing more people in the UK than everything else put together.

Why do you think we shouldn't deploy the only weapons we have to stop it doing that before the virus kills "your children, parents family and friends and fellow country men and women"?

[alancalverd]

Karl Sargan

Who he?

[alancalverd]

If your children, parents family and friends and fellow country men and women are not important to you

I am very important to me, so I will be vaccinated in 40 hours' time.

The idiocy level of this argument is only approached by the animal rights campaigners' demand that veterinary medicines should not be tested on animals.

The only way to find out if a vaccine is safe for everyone is to vaccinate everyone. And in all probability it will harm a few, just like peanuts and penicillin. But so far it has protected more than it has harmed, and done very little serious damage.

"I don't know but I have a good approximation" is nearly always the most scientific answer to any question. The only people who claim to have the absolute truth are priests, politicians and other professional liars.

[Kryptid]

how can a question be fake news?

When it's rhetorical. Based on the content of your thread, that's what it appeared to be.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

how can a question be fake news?

When it's rhetorical. Based on the content of your thread, that's what it appeared to be.

No, this a science forum. Scientist have approached the European health authorities with concerns related to proteins attacking placenta.

Not a rhetorical question at all it was a question asking if that could be the case. And as pointed out

The answer is "possibly, but no evidence to date".

It is possible,  that possibility need to be explored and tested before we risk making all women vaccinated potentially infertile.

[Kryptid]

Scientist have approached the European health authorities with concerns related to proteins attacking placenta.

There are scientists that deny evolution too.

It is possible

It's also "possible" that everyone who catches COVID will drop dead exactly 1 year after infection.

[Kryptid]

halfwit

Do we have to result to insults?

And the issues related to the SARS cov1

And what would those be, specifically?

animal experiments

Show us the original paper about it and we can discuss it.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

We just need to find the 11 women and see if they carried to full term and gave birth. Question answered.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

The reality that China has had SARS vaccine for around 17 years just adds to my position that we should be ordering from China.

[Bored chemist]

Do we have to result to insults?

According to our current policy, yes we do.
We have to let Jolly keep on posting unsupported nonsense which accuses vast numbers of scientists of either stupidity or fraud.
His view that we should stop trying to contain the virus is an insult, not only to the science, but to the memory of those who have died.
So the forum's policy is that we let him insult a vast swathe of people who have no way to reply.

[evan_au]

How can a question be fake news?

When it's not a question, but an excuse to peddle theories that have no evidence to support them.

We have two categories for this:
1. New Theories: Where the person knows that it's a new idea they have heard or come up with, and they are honestly seeking feedback from the forum community about things they might have missed. Some regular contributors know to always post in "New Theories" (and sometimes we have to move them into New Theories, and remind them...)

2. That CAN'T Be True!: Where the thread is espousing a theory which is pretty clearly wrong (often a conspiracy theory), and the author pays no attention to feedback. They keep on repeating baseless claims in the hope that this will make them more believable. These threads often diverge in many directions from the original question as more conspiracy theories are thrown into the pot - and as the proponent tries to dodge scientific evidence that their ideas don't hold water.

Mr Jolly2, you definitely belong in category 2.
- But you have the enviable honor of creating a sub-category all of your own, with a prominent warning:
2b WARNING - THIS POST IS FALSE NEWS - CLICK AND BE BRAINWASHED AT YOUR OWN RISK

I feel this warning was appropriate and justified in that case...

Do we have to result to insults?

No, we don't.

We do have some other options:
- We often move threads into New Theories or That CAN'T be True.
- We often lock threads, when they are going nowhere (as I did in that case)
- We often send a personal message to the poster, suggesting how they could better conform to the goals of the forum
- We often split or combine threads
- We can delete posts that add no new information
- If there is a small amount of new information in a post, it can be heavily redacted
- Posters who cannot or will not pay attention to the responses, or provide credible evidence for their claims are often given a holiday from the forum (especially if they are abusive).
- Posters who do not listen to advice, or cause ongoing problems are then banned permanently.

I suggest that you stop peddling the same claims, and start providing scientific evidence to support those claims.
- And address the scientific objections raised by the forum members

evan_au - moderator

[Jolly2 (OP)]

How can a question be fake news?

When it's not a question, but an excuse to peddle theories that have no evidence to support them.

Which was never the case. These theories are not mine, I simply considered the implications so dire I sort an answer.

We have two categories for this:
1. New Theories: Where the person knows that it's a new idea they have heard or come up with, and they are honestly seeking feedback from the forum community about things they might have missed. Some regular contributors know to always post in "New Theories" (and sometimes we have to move them into New Theories, and remind them...)

2. That CAN'T Be True!: Where the thread is espousing a theory which is pretty clearly wrong (often a conspiracy theory), and the author pays no attention to feedback. They keep on repeating baseless claims in the hope that this will make them more believable. These threads often diverge in many directions from the original question as more conspiracy theories are thrown into the pot - and as the proponent tries to dodge scientific evidence that their ideas don't hold water.

The only person that has offered any evidence relevant to the question is Kryptid.

You position is wrong.

Mr Jolly2, you definitely belong in category 2.
- But you have the enviable honor of creating a sub-category all of your own, with a prominent warning:
2b WARNING - THIS POST IS FALSE NEWS - CLICK AND BE BRAINWASHED AT YOUR OWN RISK

I feel this warning was appropriate and justified in that case...

And I disagree the question was not fake news. Some scientists did approach the European health authorities.  And the question is almost answered.

Atleast anyone wondering can now reference this forum thread.

It is most likley the vaccine will not attack placenta however seeing what happened with the 11 women
I  feel is the ultimate thing to do, to have a  conclusion

[evan_au]

This thread is about The Naked Scientists Forum editorial policy on handling Fake News.

The thread about "Could the covid vaccine effect female fertility?" is over here:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=81273.0
- Posts in the "editorial policy" thread related to "female fertility" have been moved to the other thread
- This conspiracy theory has been classified as Fake News, and is now closed.
- Attempts to continue this conspiracy theory will be deleted.

If some actual evidence appears answering the question (eg in 8 months), please open a new topic under the COVID-19 board, and provide a link to the evidence.

evan_au, moderator

[Jolly2 (OP)]

This thread is about The Naked Scientists Forum policy on handling Fake News.

The thread about "Could the covid vaccine effect female fertility?" is over here:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=81273.0
This conspiracy theory has been classified as Fake News, and is now closed. Attempts to continue this conspiracy theory will be deleted.

If some actual evidence appears answering the question, please open a new topic under COVID-19 area, and provide a link to the evidence.

evan_au, moderator

Am I to understand that you have posted this then retroactively deleted the posts by myself, kyrptid, bored chemist and others?

I find your behaviour rather troubling. People like yourself and these types of actions literally add to the concerns people have, rather then allowing open discussion by blocking it and deleting posts you are inherently adding to the problem.  What are you seeking to hide?

[deleted - mod]

Kyrptid is there any news in that regard you know of?