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Quote from: CrazyScientist on 13/06/2021 22:59:06If you don't agree, you'll have to prove that thermal radiation is somehow completely different from other types of EM radiation and only because of that, this particular scenario (thermal radiation) will have a different outcome.The different outcome arises from your decision to turn off the heater when it reaches 1000C.That's why I asked about the case where that does not happen.I guess you realise that, if the energy kept going in then you would eventually get a black hole , but don't want to admit it.That would certainly explain your refusal to discuss it.
If you don't agree, you'll have to prove that thermal radiation is somehow completely different from other types of EM radiation and only because of that, this particular scenario (thermal radiation) will have a different outcome.
Ahh, so when a source of heat at the temperature of 1000°C will keep heating the inside of cavity, the temperature inside will eventually exceed the 1000°C and keep rising to hypothetical infinity?
Quote from: Bored chemist on Yesterday at 22:31:50And you still seem to ignore the fact that , if a mirror hits a photon, momentum is transferred to the mirror.If the mirror was originally moving towards the photon, then the mirror will be slowed down by the momentum transfer.If the mirror is slowed down then it loses energy.And the conservation laws say that energy has to go somewhere.The only possibility is that it goes into the photon, and raises its energy.Where else?
ool, huh? According to Bored Chemist, it should be theoretically possible...
Now, stop posting dishonest gibberish, and answer this.Quote from: Bored chemist on 14/06/2021 08:42:55Quote from: Bored chemist on Yesterday at 22:31:50And you still seem to ignore the fact that , if a mirror hits a photon, momentum is transferred to the mirror.If the mirror was originally moving towards the photon, then the mirror will be slowed down by the momentum transfer.If the mirror is slowed down then it loses energy.And the conservation laws say that energy has to go somewhere.The only possibility is that it goes into the photon, and raises its energy.Where else?
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 14:04:47ool, huh? According to Bored Chemist, it should be theoretically possible...Why do you keep telling lies like that?
I guess you realise that, if the energy kept going in then you would eventually get a black hole
I guess, you slept during physics classes, when the Newton's laws of motion were discussed... If you wouldn't sleep, you would know, that to slow down an object, that moves at constant velocity, you need to use a force - so photons, which are slowing down the mirror are giving up their own energy... It's basic physics - aren't you ashamed to not know such things?
so photons, which are slowing down the mirror are giving up their own energy
because this is what you said:
have a winter jacket, that is pretty good isolator and keep the warm inside, so I will take a liter of water in a sealed container and I will keep it under that jacket at a constant temperature of 60°C until it won't turn into a black hole... Cool, huh? According to Bored Chemist, it should be theoretically possible...
If not, then what kind of energy will keep growing inside the cavity due to constant thermal radiation?
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 17:11:04I guess, you slept during physics classes, when the Newton's laws of motion were discussed... If you wouldn't sleep, you would know, that to slow down an object, that moves at constant velocity, you need to use a force - so photons, which are slowing down the mirror are giving up their own energy... It's basic physics - aren't you ashamed to not know such things?Are you deliberately missing the point?Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 17:11:04 so photons, which are slowing down the mirror are giving up their own energyIn the same not real way in which an engine uses its energy to slow a car down, and the brakes speed it up by taking energy from it and converting it to heat.You really are being absurd here.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 17:14:38because this is what you said:Yes.And this is not what I said.Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 14:04:47 have a winter jacket, that is pretty good isolator and keep the warm inside, so I will take a liter of water in a sealed container and I will keep it under that jacket at a constant temperature of 60°C until it won't turn into a black hole... Cool, huh? According to Bored Chemist, it should be theoretically possible...What I said was that, if you keep adding heat (which will obviously heat up the body hotter than 1000C) then it will get hotter.How are you claiming that is the same as if I don't heat it, it will get hotter?You just aren't making sense.And you are lying about what I said.Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 17:14:38If not, then what kind of energy will keep growing inside the cavity due to constant thermal radiation?Growing is not the same as constant.You make no sense.
It won't reach an equilibrium- because there's always more energy being added.
What I said was that, if you keep adding heat (which will obviously heat up the body hotter than 1000C) then it will get hotter.
Nope. I will add energy to KEEP the source at 1000°C
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 14/06/2021 18:29:24Nope. I will add energy to KEEP the source at 1000°CWhy?It can't lose energy- because any EM radiation that it emits is reflected back, and it absorbs it.So there's no loss.It is, in effect, perfectly insulated.So why do you keep adding energy?
I have a different question or two.If you remove the thermostat and just let the heater deliver 1 watt of heat to the inside of the sphere (from which none can escape) , and if the heater is magic so it won't burn out,(1) what happens to the mass of the sphere as a function of time and(2) what happens win the end?
Because when you "turn on" the heater for the first time, it has to warm up the surrounding medium
Source of EM radiatiom inside a cavity will simply stop to drain a battery,
In particular, nobody ever suggested that it would create a BH.
On the other hand, you seem to be ignoring the case where a BH would form, because you don't want to admit that it would.
I could say " If you take a sphere 1mm in diameter and put mass into it the, when you get to something like the mass of the earth, it will turn into a black hole."
That's still true if the mass is composed of photons.What you seem to be saying is that you do not believe this.And, as evidence, you say that putting a single atom into the sphere doesn't make a black hole.Well, no it won't.But if you stop adding stuff before you reach the threshold mass, then you are not looking at the right question.You are moving the goalposts.The point isn't what happens if you stop when there's only enough energy in there to get it fairly bright red; the point is what happens when you carry on adding energy.
The point isn't what happens if you stop when there's only enough energy in there to get it fairly bright red; the point is what happens when you carry on adding energy.
What medium?There's a vacuum.The walls don't absorb heat so they don't need to warm up.
How will that work?How will the zinc "know" that it has to stop reacting and pulling electrons round the circuit?You seem to be hoping that magic will happen.
Strange, I thought, that this is exactly what you said...
It was never the question in this discussion...
. If the sphere is somehow 100% indestructible, then energy inside it (density of photons) will become such high, that it will form a black hole - such hypothetical phenomenon has even it's own term, known as "kugelblitz".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz_(astrophysics)Personally, I consider both those options as completely wrong and physically impossible.
You just simply won't be able to add energy, because all atoms of the source will keep being excited without the possibility of EM wave emission
First you would have to prove, that it is even possible, to compress a bunch of photons into one photon,
What does it even has to do with the discussed subject?
There even doesn't have to be a medium.
No more additional energy will be accepted into the system.
Dear mr Chemist - and how atoms "know", how to react only to certain frequencies of radiation?