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  4. Is there a better way to explain light?
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Is there a better way to explain light?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Is there a better way to explain light?
« on: 12/07/2021 02:12:39 »
This thread is a follow up of my previous thread discussing and criticizing existing theories about light.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=68595.0

Here I'll try to figure out if there is a way to improve it. If there is, what will it look like?

I just become aware that a similar topic has been created by CrazyScientist.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=82373.0
What Is The Nature Of Photons & EM Radiation?

He has his own reasoning to come to his conclusion, which has some differences and similarities than my current understanding of this matter. If I have something to say about his reasoning, I'll post it there. But to avoid complication, I'll post my own reasoning here.

To avoid getting unexpected results, I'll try to avoid making false assumptions, especially the hidden ones, which are likely hard to identify. Any assumptions put into the model should be stated explicitly, along with the reasons why they can't be dismissed. This can significantly slow down the process, but I guess it worths the efforts to resolve spookiness in science.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2021 07:08:55 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #1 on: 12/07/2021 06:16:43 »
Pathological Science
"The science of things that aren't so"

Just to remind myself from being overly enthusiastic with my own model of light.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #2 on: 16/07/2021 08:53:57 »
As promised, I'll propose a plausible model to explain behavior of light here. The model should be able to explain some observations like I've posted in the other thread.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/07/2021 05:51:36
I'd like to remind you that this thread is meant to compare currently accepted theories with our observations. What are the results predicted by the mathematical models for a particular experimental setup? What is actually observed? Is there a discrepancy? Can we identify the cause of the discrepancy? Can it be removed by changing some aspect of the experimental setup?
Here are some experimental observations I uploaded to Youtube. I think you can easily reproduce them to make sure that they are not misleading tricks.

Investigation on Diffraction of light 4 : Non-diffractive obstacle

Investigation on Diffraction of Light 9 : Horizontally Tilted

Investigation on Diffraction of Light 10 : Vertically Tilted Obstacle

Investigation on Diffraction of Light 13 : Non-Diffractive slit; A Challenge to Huygen's Principle
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #3 on: 16/07/2021 10:19:12 »
Here's the model I proposed. I'm not really sure if it's new, since it's based on how a dipole antenna work. Can we derive Huygen's principle from equations of antenna? Or can we derive equations of antenna from Huygen's principle?
Investigation on microwave 37 : blocking mechanism

Investigation on microwave 38: blocking mechanism explanation

Investigation on microwave 39: Blocking mechanism evidence
« Last Edit: 19/11/2022 10:14:23 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #4 on: 16/07/2021 21:44:24 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/07/2021 02:12:39
This thread is a follow up of my previous thread discussing and criticizing existing theories about light.
So from your failed thread on the existing theory of light, you are now going to make a failed thread on a new theory of light?  Well isn't that swell.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #5 on: 17/07/2021 00:47:06 »
Quote from: Origin on 16/07/2021 21:44:24
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/07/2021 02:12:39
This thread is a follow up of my previous thread discussing and criticizing existing theories about light.
So from your failed thread on the existing theory of light, you are now going to make a failed thread on a new theory of light?  Well isn't that swell.
How do you define failure in this context?
It looks more like you're failing to understand how science works.
« Last Edit: 17/07/2021 10:37:38 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #6 on: 17/07/2021 10:58:55 »
Here's an example how the model can be used to predict experimental results.

Polarization twister design.

Signal splitting.

Asymmetric twister/splitter
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #7 on: 17/07/2021 12:44:27 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/07/2021 00:47:06
How do you define failure in this context?
It would be good if Origin answered that.
But, in fairness, you need to provide a similar answer.
If you seek a "better" way to explain light, you need to explain in what ways the current explanation fails.
If it doesn't, then there's no need for a better explanation.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #8 on: 18/07/2021 01:19:15 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/07/2021 12:44:27
If you seek a "better" way to explain light, you need to explain in what ways the current explanation fails.
My main concern regarding current explanations are the lack of physical model which can help describe the cause and effect relationship in interaction between light and matter. Many electromagnetic phenomena are given ad hoc physical interpretations which makes them lack of generality. Here is an example in my other thread.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=77687.0
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/09/2019 13:24:25
My model can be thought as an extention to the working principle of antenna, which can be shown clearly here.

An improvement by providing a general purpose physical model is similar to improvement made by Schrodinger to use wave model to describe quantum mechanics, compared to Matrix mechanics which has no physical model.

Quote
Matrix mechanics is a formulation of quantum mechanics created by Werner Heisenberg, Max Born, and Pascual Jordan in 1925. It was the first conceptually autonomous and logically consistent formulation of quantum mechanics. Its account of quantum jumps supplanted the Bohr model's electron orbits. It did so by interpreting the physical properties of particles as matrices that evolve in time. It is equivalent to the Schrödinger wave formulation of quantum mechanics, as manifest in Dirac's bra–ket notation.

In some contrast to the wave formulation, it produces spectra of (mostly energy) operators by purely algebraic, ladder operator methods.[1] Relying on these methods, Wolfgang Pauli derived the hydrogen atom spectrum in 1926,[2] before the development of wave mechanics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_mechanics

Quote
The Schrödinger equation is a linear partial differential equation that governs the wave function of a quantum-mechanical system.[1]:1–2 It is a key result in quantum mechanics, and its discovery was a significant landmark in the development of the subject. The equation is named after Erwin Schrödinger, who postulated the equation in 1925, and published it in 1926, forming the basis for the work that resulted in his Nobel Prize in Physics in 1933.[2][3]

Conceptually, the Schrödinger equation is the quantum counterpart of Newton's second law in classical mechanics. Given a set of known initial conditions, Newton's second law makes a mathematical prediction as to what path a given physical system will take over time. The Schrödinger equation gives the evolution over time of a wave function, the quantum-mechanical characterization of an isolated physical system. The equation can be derived from the fact that the time-evolution operator must be unitary, and must therefore be generated by the exponential of a self-adjoint operator, which is the quantum Hamiltonian.

The Schrödinger equation is not the only way to study quantum mechanical systems and make predictions. The other formulations of quantum mechanics include matrix mechanics, introduced by Werner Heisenberg, and the path integral formulation, developed chiefly by Richard Feynman. Paul Dirac incorporated matrix mechanics and the Schrödinger equation into a single formulation. When these approaches are compared, the use of the Schrödinger equation is sometimes called "wave mechanics".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #9 on: 18/07/2021 10:36:35 »
There's a perfectly sound reason for using matrices.
With numbers A times B is equal to B times A.
That's not  always true with matrices.
And that allows you the mathematical "wriggle room" for the uncertainty principle.

Are you familiar with the use of matrices to represent operations?
The best known are those used for transforming images - reflections rotations etc).

Once you  are used to using them as simply a short-hand way of doing maths, they acquire a
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 18/07/2021 01:19:15
physical model
.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #10 on: 19/07/2021 05:35:15 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/07/2021 10:58:55
Polarization twister design.
I can only do this with physical model based on how antenna works.
And the results remind me of parametric downconversion mentioned by Evan in my other thread.

How can we rationalize a vertically polarized photon to spontaneously split into two specific directions and become horizontally polarized?
« Last Edit: 21/07/2021 08:53:03 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #11 on: 19/07/2021 05:48:31 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/07/2021 10:36:35
Are you familiar with the use of matrices to represent operations?
The best known are those used for transforming images - reflections rotations etc).
Math videos from 3Blue1Brown can give us intuitive explanation about them.

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #12 on: 21/07/2021 08:27:00 »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_constant
Quote
The Planck constant, or Planck's constant, is a fundamental physical constant denoted h, and is of fundamental importance in quantum mechanics. A photon's energy is equal to its frequency multiplied by the Planck constant. Due to mass–energy equivalence, the Planck constant also relates mass to frequency.

In metrology it is used, together with other constants, to define the kilogram, an SI unit.[1] The SI units are defined in such a way that, when the Planck constant is expressed in SI units, it has the exact value h = 6.62607015×10−34 J⋅Hz−1.[2][3]

At the end of the 19th century, accurate measurements of the spectrum of black body radiation existed, but predictions of the frequency distribution of the radiation by then-existing theories diverged significantly at higher frequencies. In 1900, Max Planck empirically derived a formula for the observed spectrum. He assumed a hypothetical electrically charged oscillator in a cavity that contained black-body radiation could only change its energy in a minimal increment, E, that was proportional to the frequency of its associated electromagnetic wave.[4] He was able to calculate the proportionality constant from the experimental measurements, and that constant is named in his honor. In 1905, Albert Einstein determined a "quantum" or minimal element of the energy of the electromagnetic wave itself. The light quantum behaved in some respects as an electrically neutral particle, and was eventually called a photon. Max Planck received the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics "in recognition of the services he rendered to the advancement of Physics by his discovery of energy quanta".

Confusion can arise when dealing with frequency or the Planck constant because the units of angular measure (cycle or radian) are omitted in SI.[5][6][7][8][9] In the language of quantity calculus,[10] the expression for the value of the Planck constant, or a frequency, is the product of a numerical value and a unit of measurement. The symbol f (or ν), when used for the value of a frequency, implies cycles per second or hertz as the unit. When the symbol ω is used for the frequency's value it implies radians per second as the unit. The numerical values of these two ways of expressing the frequency have a ratio of 2π. Omitting the units of angular measure "cycle" and "radian" can lead to an error of 2π. A similar state of affairs occurs for the Planck constant. The symbol h is used to express the value of the Planck constant in J⋅s/cycle, and the symbol ħ ("h-bar") is used to express its value in J⋅s/rad. Both represent the value of the Planck constant, but, as discussed below, their numerical values have a ratio of 2π. In this article the word "value" as used in the tables means "numerical value", and the equations involving the Planck constant and/or frequency actually involve their numerical values using the appropriate implied units.
The unit of Planck constant is J⋅s/cycle. If there are 2 cycles in a chirp of electromagnetic wave, the energy would be twice as much. It's implicitly assumed that the value of cycle must be an integer. Otherwise there would be no observed quantization of energy transfer.

Quote
The word quantum is the neuter singular of the Latin interrogative adjective quantus, meaning "how much". "Quanta", the neuter plural, short for "quanta of electricity" (electrons), was used in a 1902 article on the photoelectric effect by Philipp Lenard, who credited Hermann von Helmholtz for using the word in the area of electricity. However, the word quantum in general was well known before 1900,[2] e.g. quantum was used in E.A. Poe's Loss of Breath. It was often used by physicians, such as in the term quantum satis. Both Helmholtz and Julius von Mayer were physicians as well as physicists. Helmholtz used quantum with reference to heat in his article[3] on Mayer's work, and the word quantum can be found in the formulation of the first law of thermodynamics by Mayer in his letter[4] dated July 24, 1841.

In 1901, Max Planck used quanta to mean "quanta of matter and electricity",[5] gas, and heat.[6] In 1905, in response to Planck's work and the experimental work of Lenard (who explained his results by using the term quanta of electricity), Albert Einstein suggested that radiation existed in spatially localized packets which he called "quanta of light" ("Lichtquanta").[7]

The concept of quantization of radiation was discovered in 1900 by Max Planck, who had been trying to understand the emission of radiation from heated objects, known as black-body radiation. By assuming that energy can be absorbed or released only in tiny, differential, discrete packets (which he called "bundles", or "energy elements"),[8] Planck accounted for certain objects changing color when heated.[9] On December 14, 1900, Planck reported his findings to the German Physical Society, and introduced the idea of quantization for the first time as a part of his research on black-body radiation.[10] As a result of his experiments, Planck deduced the numerical value of h, known as the Planck constant, and reported more precise values for the unit of electrical charge and the Avogadro–Loschmidt number, the number of real molecules in a mole, to the German Physical Society. After his theory was validated, Planck was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for his discovery in 1918.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum#Etymology_and_discovery
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #13 on: 23/07/2021 07:11:06 »
I’ve been teaching microwave polarisation wrong! - A Level Physics
Quote
So it turns out the way I've been teaching microwave polarisation is wrong!! Well, it's not so much wrong, it's the fact that the 'picket fence' analogy for polarisation isn't what it first seems. Where the picket fence only allows vertically polarised light through, a corresponding polarising filter only allows horizontally polarised light through! Watch this video for more explanation.
« Last Edit: 23/07/2021 08:05:22 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #14 on: 10/08/2021 11:32:53 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/08/2021 15:17:03
Quote from: alancalverd on 09/08/2021 12:41:39
But E = hf and E > 0 for a photon!

More to the point, there is no such thing as a negative frequency. Fact is that it doesn't matter where you put the "center" frequency, the spectrum of a delta function is infinite, but the energy of a photon is absolutely defined.
You can use online calculators such as wolfram alpha to show that the width of the curve in time domain is proportional to the height of the corresponding curve in frequency domain. So, if the time domain signal is infinitesimally thin, then the frequency domain curve is infinitesimally low. I'd like to elaborate further, but I'm afraid that I'll have to do it in new theory section.
So, here we are. To avoid getting unexpected results, we must make sure that we don't make false assumptions. We must distinguish between observed facts and assumptions, or conclusions based on observation results combined with our assumptions.
First, I'd like to point out that Fourier transform tells us that it's impossible to produce infinitesimally thin spectrum of radiation with limited amount of time. On the other hand, it's impossible to produce infinitesimally thin pulse of radiation with finite range of spectrum.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/08/2021 08:08:56
Here are some more examples. Perhaps we can see some patterns.




The last diagram shows that fourier transform mirrors original function, with the curve t-0.5 similar to  ω-0.5
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #15 on: 10/08/2021 14:29:52 »
Photons move at the speed of light. They have attributes we call wavelength and frequency.  The wavelength and frequencies obey the laws of inertial reference. However, they do not obey the laws of a speed of light reference, even though photons move at the speed of light.

If we plug the speed of light into the equations of Special Relativity, distance and time or wavelength and frequency should become discontinuous; zero or infinite, and not remain as finite wavelength and frequency. The speed of light is not defining these attributes. Finite wavelength and frequency are connected to inertial and space-time. 

If wavelength and frequency was being defined by the speed of light we would get only photons with zero wavelength; very powerful, or infinite wavelength; almost zero energy. The stuff in the middle is the rule and this is all based on inertial.

One possible explanation for the dual natural of the photon, is that the speed of light aspect of photons, exists in the gaps between photon quanta, The quanta are inertial and the gaps between is where space-time become discontinuous at the speed of light. The photon is a single particle with two extreme reference states; inertial and speed of light.  The photon combine these in a way that allows both to be expressed; quantum and gaps. Matter then becomes quantized through the interaction with the quantum nature of photons; electron orbitals.   

Has anyone run experiment with two adjacent photon quanta with a gap in the middle to see if we isolate gap based affects? We can use two lasers and an appropriate excitation material.
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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #16 on: 10/08/2021 15:17:31 »
Quote from: puppypower on 10/08/2021 14:29:52
The wavelength and frequencies obey the laws of inertial reference
Why do you post this nonsense?
Quote from: puppypower on 10/08/2021 14:29:52
Has anyone run experiment with two adjacent photon quanta with a gap in the middle to see if we isolate gap based affects?
No, because it is nonsense.
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #17 on: 10/08/2021 18:46:50 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/07/2021 02:12:39
Here I'll try to figure out if there is a way to improve it. If there is, what will it look like?
As we know light has no visible quality in the absence of matter why photons are lacking mass and are too small to see unless we look at the source of the light or the object that the light is reflecting off. If we look into a 100 watt spotlight we see that intensity if we look into a 200 watt spotlight we see that it is considerably brighter we are now producing more photons yet the gap between the photons is very large in relation to the photons themselves. Now look at electrons there is some comparison to be made take a simple playing card it is made up of countless electrons although electrons have a very large space between them just like the planets orbiting the sun. If we shine that 200 watt light on the card it will be illuminated very brightly by photons that have a larger gap between them than the electrons and atoms that make up the card. If we could extract all the potential energy from the card it could produce more light than the sun for a brief moment that little playing card has more potential energy and light than any light you could ever shine on it. So what does all this mean the light leaves its source after being converted and lands back to the unconverted potential source only revealing its self leaving and returning not on the journey in between. Light is produced by excitement and light can illuminate matter by re excitement as light travels it maintains its potential until interrupted. I hope this explanation helps in some way if not it's just my electrons protons and atoms shorting out. PS. and my neurons.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #18 on: 11/08/2021 15:08:36 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/08/2021 04:30:51
Here is an example of a Gaussian pulse and its Fourier transform.

https://www.gaussianwaves.com/2014/07/generating-basic-signals-gaussian-pulse-and-power-spectral-density-using-fft/
This kind of pulse can be generated using electronic circuits. The value of σ can be adjusted. The vertical axis of frequency domain is not probability. It's magnitude instead.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/08/2021 15:17:03
You can use online calculators such as wolfram alpha to show that the width of the curve in time domain is proportional to the height of the corresponding curve in frequency domain. So, if the time domain signal is infinitesimally thin, then the frequency domain curve is infinitesimally low.
The Fourier transform of a Gaussian pulse in time domain is just a different representation of the same pulse in the frequency domain. With appropriately chosen unit for vertical axis, a pair of Gaussian pulses can be arranged to  represent the same signal in both time and frequency domains, where the area below the curves are maintained equal between two domains.

If the vertical axis in time domain is power, then the area below the curve represents energy. The corresponding vertical axis in frequency domain of the same pulse would be angular momentum. Thus, the area below the curve also represents energy of the pulse.
« Last Edit: 11/08/2021 15:20:52 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #19 on: 11/08/2021 15:23:15 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 10/08/2021 18:46:50
Re: Is there a better way to explain light?
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 03:46:50 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12-07-2021, 11:12:39

    Here I'll try to figure out if there is a way to improve it. If there is, what will it look like?

As we know light has no visible quality in the absence of matter why photons are lacking mass and are too small to see unless we look at the source of the light or the object that the light is reflecting off. If we look into a 100 watt spotlight we see that intensity if we look into a 200 watt spotlight we see that it is considerably brighter we are now producing more photons yet the gap between the photons is very large in relation to the photons themselves. Now look at electrons there is some comparison to be made take a simple playing card it is made up of countless electrons although electrons have a very large space between them just like the planets orbiting the sun. If we shine that 200 watt light on the card it will be illuminated very brightly by photons that have a larger gap between them than the electrons and atoms that make up the card. If we could extract all the potential energy from the card it could produce more light than the sun for a brief moment that little playing card has more potential energy and light than any light you could ever shine on it. So what does all this mean the light leaves its source after being converted and lands back to the unconverted potential source only revealing its self leaving and returning not on the journey in between. Light is produced by excitement and light can illuminate matter by re excitement as light travels it maintains its potential until interrupted. I hope this explanation helps in some way if not it's just my electrons protons and atoms shorting out. PS. and my neurons.
That's what I thought to only you have explained it better than I could have ever tried.
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