[OldMan]

Others seem to believe the ki centre is the solar plexus, just below where the ribs join. Generally speaking it is always referred to as being somewhere between those points.

I used to make myself really heavy when my brother tried to pick me up like you described. We also did it once in taekwondo its quite funny to watch someone pick a person up fairly easily and then try it again and not be able to budge the person.

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I'm attacking the illusion but the stopping drives me mad!

[gsmollin]

When you were "making yourself really heavy", did you weigh yourself to see how much mass you had added? Try it. Making yourself hard to pick up, or be pushed over, involves careful training on controlling the tension in your muscles, the stance of your feet, and leveraging the mass you have, using your limbs. You won't be adding any mass to your body, unless you load up on bananas and milk first.

[Ylide]

ebZzZz, you speak of scientists following blindly, have YOU done this experiment or are you just blindly following, too?  

I'm with gsmollin, if it's not reproducible and published, it's probably not reputable.  Measuring mass is usually done by measuring weight, and a dying organism is probably not going to lie still and take it, making a weight measurement difficult.  Ever get on a scale and flail around?



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[OldMan]

gsmollin - yes I see your point. Perhaps I should have used the quotes because when I said I was "making myself really heavy" no I wasn't physically increasing my mass of course, that was just how I thought of it and how it felt.

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I'm attacking the illusion but the stopping drives me mad!

[tweener]

Speaking of scientists following blindly.  I've known several top-notch (as in internationally respected in their field) scientists and not one of them could be considered a "follower".  Every one of them was what I'd consider a genius and very much interested in finding new and different ways of looking at the world.  Every one of them would have jumped on an experiment that gave a hint of anomolous results, because they were truly curious as to what would cause such results.

I absolutely reject the notion that scientists in general blindly follow anyone or anything.  Including Einstein.  

So, ebz, have YOU done the experiment?  Has your friend been published somewhere so that his work can be reviewed?


----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[neilep (OP)]

Hello Neil here,

...I'm not a scientist but I have to agree with John (moderator sir) that surely the very nature of a scientist is discovery through research and empirical data etc etc, and therefore to not follow but to lead, and that's what I have to say about that.

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'  

[paul.fr]

I know this is an old topic, but i always notice people reading it. So here is some information that has not already been posted.

The experiments were carried out by Dr Duncan MacDougall, and he only had 6 test subjects to work on! That's not many is it? At the very least one should have ten, ie X out of 10.

Saying that lets assume he could not find another four, not his fault. Most people are quite sure that the experiment is correct and was conducted with rigour and irrefutable. So what did he find, did all 6 loose 21 grammes?

So what did he find with those six patients / subjects?

"(the first) Suddenly coincident with death . . . the loss was ascertained to be three-fourths of an ounce."

"(the second) The weight lost was found to be half an ounce. Then my colleague auscultated the heart and and found it stopped. I tried again and the loss was one ounce and a half and fifty grains."

"My third case showed a weight of half an ounce lost, coincident with death, and an additional loss of one ounce a few minutes later."

"In the fourth case unfortunately our scales were not finely adjusted and there was a good deal of interference by people opposed to our work . . . I regard this test as of no value."

"My fifth case showed a distinct drop in the beam requiring about three-eighths of an ounce which could not be accounted for. This occurred exactly simultaneously with death but peculiarly on bringing the beam up again with weights and later removing them, the beam did not sink back to stay for fully fifteen minutes."

"My sixth and last case was not a fair test. The patient died almost within five minutes after being placed upon the bed and died while I was adjusting the beam."

His finding were published in the newyork times and  American Medicine.   April 1907.MacDougall, Duncan.   "The Soul: Hypothesis Concerning Soul Substance Together with Experimental Evidence of The Existence of Such Substance."

Only one patient showed a weight loss of 21 grammes! Not too convincing. The other questions you need to ask are:

exactly when do you determine the precise moment of death to make your calculations?

how accurate were those scales 100 years ago?

[chris]

There's a more significant error in the claims - if the body loses weight at the moment of death then the "soul" must be heavier than air, in which case "souls" must sink into the ground rather than float Heavenwards, as is often depicted...

Chris

[paul.fr]

There's a more significant error in the claims - if the body loses weight at the moment of death then the "soul" must be heavier than air, in which case "souls" must sink into the ground rather than float Heavenwards, as is often depicted...

Chris

Good point, Chris. But would that only be an error if you assume the persons soul was going to heaven and not hell?