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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  3. Complementary Medicine
  4. Usefulness of Glyconutrients
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Usefulness of Glyconutrients

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Offline chris

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #20 on: 12/11/2004 07:58:11 »
Oh, and you can get plenty of vitamin E from a packet of peanuts or cashews at a fraction of the price. C

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #21 on: 07/02/2005 12:10:58 »
For things like CoQ10 though, you have to eat a lot of organ meats.  Yuck.  =P  

Doesn't cooking food destroy many of the nutrients contained within?  I've had some of the vegan wackos I know make a case for this and I'm starting to think they make sense.

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Offline glycomom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #22 on: 29/03/2005 04:10:24 »
There have been several good points here. BUT, there are good products on the market! Maybe the caveman didn't know oranges were a good source of C? Bottom line, our bodies were made to utlize FOOD not synthetics. Our entire family uses products from a good company and we have seen amazing recovery in several areas. I am a "medical mom" and have done my homework. Glyconutrients DO WORK!
I have seen it in my own famiily. I will not get to details here but  if anyone wants they  are welcome to e-mail me. emmerich2314@aol.com
Rene
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Offline Ylide

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #23 on: 29/03/2005 12:11:05 »
quote:
Originally posted by glycomom

 our bodies were made to utlize FOOD not synthetics. Our entire family uses products from a good company and we have seen amazing recovery in several areas. I am a "medical mom" and have done my homework. Glyconutrients DO WORK!




Our bodies evolved to utilize the biochemicals contained in food.  Your body does not care if a particular chemical comes from a plant or comes from a pill as long is it is the proper chemical in the proper conformation.  Just because we started off eating food is no reason to think we should only obtain our nutrients from food and food only.  

Most nutritional supplements are extracts of biomass anyway.  Do you know how hard it is to synthesize an enzyme or a vitamin?  How is this any better or worse than the source of these miraculous glyconutrients?  
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Offline glycomom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #24 on: 29/03/2005 20:37:45 »
I am interested in knowing where your nutrition background stems? You seem to be very anti-natural. What does that stem from. Being the mother of a special needs child that is a product of our medical system, I know what happens. I live with it every day.
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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #25 on: 29/03/2005 22:19:44 »
Hey all!  I stumbled on this forum. Wow! Tons of info...

I was told there are specific monosaccharides that are used for glycosylation on every cell. That there is even a noble prize winner for  the discovery.



But   'Ylide', you are saying that this isn't true? Are you a specialist in nutrition or something?
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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #26 on: 29/03/2005 22:33:45 »
On the topic of eating healthy.....

The AMA (American Medical Association), recommends some type of vitamin supplementing to help protect against disease.

newbielink:http://thyroid.about.com/cs/newsinfo/l/blvitamins.htm [nonactive]

Is a vitamin trully needed? If so, that would suggest that the foods that are available now aren't giving us adequate amounts of nutrients to stay healthy. Which leads me to believe that there is a possibility we aren't getting all the nutrition from the foods we have now compared to what we used to get from the foods 50 years ago.  Am i on the right track at least?
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Offline snookrz_2000

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #27 on: 30/03/2005 14:22:52 »
Ylide?  I read your profile. you have background in biology. Kewl!


After reading these posts, I went around the internet and looked at different sites that had 'glyconutrient' mentioned...
I found several that mention that this stuff is a technology that MIT recognizes as one that will, 'change the world'(their words)...

Is it possible that Mass. Institute of Technology knows something that you don't, Ylide?

Confused...please expound with your knowledge if possible.



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Offline snow_nat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #28 on: 31/03/2005 18:52:49 »
Hello, would you be able to post how I could read the reports you refer to in this post.

Thanks, Nat.

quote:
Originally posted by psophist

I have heard about a few people where the glyconutrients have actually improved their health condition.  

I found a report that might shed some light and some thought to what to avoid.....

[?]Plant-induced seizures: reappearance of an old problem.

Burkhard PR, Burkhardt K, Haenggeli CA, Landis T.

Department of Neurology, University Hospital, CH-1211 Geneva 14, Switzerland, Pierre.Burkhard@hcuge.ch

Several plant-derived essential oils have been known for over a century to have epileptogenic properties. We report three healthy patients, two adults and one child, who suffered from an isolated generalized tonic-clonic seizure and a generalized tonic status, respectively, related to the absorption of several of these oils for therapeutic purposes. No other cause of epilepsy was found, and outcome was good in the two adult cases, but the course has been less favorable in the child. A survey of the literature shows essential oils of 11 plants to be powerful convulsants (eucalyptus, fennel, hyssop, pennyroyal, rosemary, sage, savin, tansy, thuja, turpentine, and wormwood) due to their content of highly reactive monoterpene ketones, such as camphor, pinocamphone, thujone, cineole, pulegone, sabinylacetate, and fenchone. Our three cases strongly support the concept of plant-related toxic seizure. Nowadays the wide use of these compounds in certain unconventional medicines makes this severe complication again possible.[?]

Here is another report I found....[?]Treatment of four siblings with progressive myoclonus epilepsy of the Unverricht-Lundborg type with N-acetylcysteine[?]

Of what I have learned in my research, glyconutrients are not dis-ease specific.  These essential sugars are 'life to a cell' and help a dis-eased cell recover from its trauma and assist a healthy cell in its normal 'workday' function.  

There are several books out [ newbielink:http://store.dexlen.com# [nonactive]s ] about glyconutrients.  You can read the first chapter of one of the books "Sugars that Heal" at newbielink:http://glyco.dexlen.us/SugarsThatHeal.htm [nonactive]


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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #29 on: 18/04/2005 06:12:51 »
Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body.  YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.  

These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS.  They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars.  If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them.  In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.

Did MIT say glycomics will change the world?  Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body.  THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!  

Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists?  YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!

If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do?  You check your blood glucose.  Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement?  BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.

Do they work?  Possibly.  They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system.  And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties.  But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.

Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong.  And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said.  Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances.  (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).

And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available.  Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either.  Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content.  Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together.  But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.  

Is their new product cheaper?  Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together.  You can do the same thing from the same companies.  No reason to go broke if these are helping you.  Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.

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Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #30 on: 21/04/2005 16:18:28 »
why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about glyconutrients? as far as the "new" product goes...it is more cost efective then the old and you take LESS. Before you bash things dig a bit deeper! If MIT did not refer to glyconutrients, what do you think glycomics is??? THe study of stars????
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Offline bystander

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #31 on: 22/04/2005 14:38:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by loweduane

Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body.  YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.  

These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS.  They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars.  If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them.  In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.

Did MIT say glycomics will change the world?  Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body.  THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!  

Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists?  YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!

If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do?  You check your blood glucose.  Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement?  BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.

Do they work?  Possibly.  They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system.  And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties.  But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.

Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong.  And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said.  Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances.  (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).

And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available.  Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either.  Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content.  Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together.  But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.  

Is their new product cheaper?  Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and [?]you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together.  You can do the same thing from the same companies.  No reason to go broke if these are helping you.  Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.[?]



[?]WHAT COMPANIES CAN I GET THESE FROM? I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE BEEN SCEPTICALLY SUCKED IN TO TRYING THESE PRODUCTS..MANNATECH..AND HAVE BEEN HELPED...BUT CAN'T AFFORD TO BE RIPPED OFF.
CONNIE
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Offline bystander

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #32 on: 22/04/2005 16:20:04 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, [?]the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. [?]Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.

[?]The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.[?]

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[?]I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT NUTRIENTS ARE IN WHICH FOODS AND WHAT CAN I TAKE IN THROUGH FOOD( Provided I can find UNPROCESSED & vine RIPENED un-poisoned)
I think we should be concerned about The NUTRITIONAL EDUCATION of Americans.
Ignorant Bystander
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Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #33 on: 22/04/2005 16:54:21 »
Connie,

e-mail me and I can show you how to get your products for free.This really works! emmerich2314@aol.com
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Offline bystander

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #34 on: 22/04/2005 17:26:33 »
Thanks[;)], but I know the sales pitch .
Actually,I am looking more for the source of the companies that supply to that company.
I am interested in learning about the natural foods that CONTAIN the NATURAL NUTRIENTS ...That are contained in these supplements....[?]

Just An Ignorant Bystander
« Last Edit: 22/04/2005 17:30:08 by bystander »
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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #35 on: 24/04/2005 08:05:16 »
Bystander

Mannatech buys its Arabinogalactan from Larex Inc.  (They are the only supplier of Arabinogalactan in the world at present, so if you buy it, they made it.)  Food Science of Vermont sells a 100 gram container of the exact same grade arabinogalactan as what it in Ambrotose.  MyVitaNet.com sells it.  

Manapol (Aloe Extract with long chain acemannan) is ONLY made by Carrington Labs, which supplies Mannatech.  They also sell Manapol directly and from vendors, such as MyVitaNet.com.  

The other ingredients, such as the glucosamine, can be found from multiple sources.  NOW brand vitamins has a very inexpensive powder form if you are making your own recipe.  The gum Ghatti is more difficult to get, but the gum tragacanth is fairly easy to find via the internet.  And I see no rationale to add the filler "rice starch".  I notice that they didn't add it to their new "advanced ambrotose" at all.

Here is a post from 'pilotlight' at the curezone forums on the same topic.

"Hi Duane,

I thought I’d let you know how I made out creating my own glyconutrients thanks to your advice. Although I believe that you may be correct that people will see the same benefit by using only the arabinogalactan and the manapol, I wanted to see how close I could actually come to the glycol-formula that is ambrotose.

The first thing I did was I purchased a hundred gram digital scale and hundred gram weight (for calibration). The cost for both and shipping and handling was about $30.00. Then I purchased the manapol powder (64g at $27.44 which includes shipping and handling) and arabinogalactan (100g at $25.37 which includes shipping and handling) from myvitanet.com. I then went and purchased a high grade vegetarian glucosamine HCL called prescription 2000 (90g at $25.90 which includes shipping and handling). Because there is no warning about allergies to sea food on ambrotose I assume that the glucosamine HCL in ambrotose is vegetable based. After reading the patent information that you provided, I learned that Mannatech purchases their gum tragacanth and gum ghatti from a distributor named AEP Colloids in New York. Unfortunately, they only sell their products to businesses, however, I was resourceful enough to have a friend who owns a baking business (usually what gums are used for) order me a free sample, and who can purchase it for me if I really want to use it. There are plenty of places to order gum tragacanth but not so many for gum ghatti. However, gum arabic seems to be an adequate substitute and is one of the gums that some of the other manufactures of glyconutrients use in their products. There are plenty of sources for food grade gum arabic. That leaves the good old rice starch. Believe or not there are not too many places to purchase this ingredient (A&B ingredients is one of them) but according to the patent application, you can use corn starch or rice or corn flour.

Based on my purchases, I estimated it would cost me a little less than $25.00 per 100 gram container based on the formula contained in the patent application. I will probably get it under the $20.00 mark when I become a little more savvy about my purchasing and utilizing free shipping, etc. It will probably be even cheaper if I decide to buy the tragacanth and ghatti in bulk from AEP colloids via my friend.

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your assistance. I plan on educating people on every message board that I can find. To be honest with you I’m disgusted by the amount of money that mannatech and their associates charge for this product. Because they buy things in huge quantities they probably make a container for three or four dollars. I know the associates will all stick to their mantra because some of them do this for a living. But because this product really helps people wouldn’t it be better if people who do take it could take more of it and still save money. And what about the people that can’t afford it? Maybe if they know there is a way that doesn’t take much effort and is 75% less expensive they will try it and enhance their health. I hope people will be willing to take a chance and do it themselves. It’s not difficult and it will save people a lot of money. Again, thanks for everything."

- Pilotlight

If you want to sell it to your friends and get them to pay you money so that you can buy the actual product from Mannatech, great.  Just do that.  No one actually gets it for free, just other people paying an exhorbitant price to give you money so that you can buy a supplement for an exorbitant price.  Funny thing is, the company gets all the money either way.  But that is what they are in business for.  (We have roughly calculated that they most likely pay less than $10.00 each to make this supplement, especially if we can put together the ingredients "retail" for about $25.00).

If you are a salesman, or if you are rich, just buy the supplement from them.  If you want to save some money and get the exact same ingredients, from the same companies, Mannatech uses then do that.  Its up to you.  Hopefully kittycat's friends have signed up enough people under them that they don't have to worry about that monthly medical bill too.

Kittycat, I'm glad your friend is getting better, however Reg McDaniels "research" is sales hype at present, and there is no evidence that his recovery is because of stem cells.  You don't even have the scientific expertise to evaluate the quality of his research or if he is outright lying to you, and his research has NEVER been submitted for scrutiny by other researchers.  I could say that it is secondary to growth factors stimulated by the absorption of large amounts of short-chain fatty acids, or several other unsupported theories, that would be just as valid.  The bottom line is, your friend is improving and you have ZERO evidence HOW the supplement is working.  

Great, it is working, but trying to convince the public this supplements superiority by false science is wrong.  

Wow, I guess I do have a chip.  But at least I don't make a profit from it.  So I would have to say it is a more objective chip than others.  

By the way, FYI, in case you read other 'miracle' stories from people of what glyconutrients can cure, I bring everyone's attention to the following link about a Doctor who published a miraculous study of glyconutrients effects on a boy, (who at the time of the publication had already died.)

http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Mannatech/complaint.html

And with that I bid you good day.

Just call me Chip.
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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #36 on: 24/04/2005 19:41:47 »
Don't you think giving people a more reasonably priced alternative of the same ingredients is helping people?  I do.  

As I said before, I am glad your friend is doing well with these supplements.  I don't have a problem with the ingredients, just the ethics and science (or lack thereof) of the people selling them.  

I hope, REALLY HOPE, that those people looking for objective information and an alternative (using the same ingredients) access this forum, and any others I find, and use the information I provide to help them just as much as your friend is being helped by the expensive supplement.

Your loyalty seems to be more to Mannatech and your pocketbook than to the truth and actual science.  Which makes you more of a salesman than a kind, concerned friend who is helping the masses.

Does your friends parents know that there is a more reasonably priced alternative with the same ingredients?  Lets see how much of a friend you really are.

By the way, I am in an alternative health profession, and am very OPEN MINDED of results, but I won't compromise my commitment to truth just because some company I like promotes and unscientific theory that has so far been proven false. Would I recommend these ingredients to someone in a similar situation as 'Rob?'...Yes.  Would I lie about how it works to sell it to someone?...No

 Duane
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Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #37 on: 25/04/2005 15:58:13 »
Duane...

I must side with Cathy. you have been nothing short of rude! Lets hear about your profession. I bet you feel you provide a good service, well, I bet someone out there would easily rip it apart because they feel they are superior. You sit there and cut down our PROVEN science and docs....who are you????

Rene

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #38 on: 26/04/2005 04:05:25 »
Proven science and docs?  What proof?  

Even the researchers at Mannatech have not been able to find even one scientific reference showing that what I have said is not true.  Nor their #3 salesperson.  You call it PROVEN, but have no evidence to support it.  

Sorry you find it rude to read the truth.  I'm just educating the public, and giving them a reasonably priced alternative.

As for homemade glyconutrients.  There are several on the Curezone forum that have been making and taking them, and they have been doing great.  I'll let you know if I hear any horror stories...None yet.  (Hey, it is the SAME ingredients made by the SAME companies, so don't expect to get many takers to your request).

I apologize if my previous posts took a personal bent and were rude concerning your integrity and motivation concerning the people that you have told about these supplements.  Being that you are not objective parties concerning Mannatech since you do get paid when others buy it, so you can see the conflict-of-interest.  Of course, if you have been giving your profits directly to your friends to decrease their costs, I apologize.

Duane
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Offline onestep

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #39 on: 12/05/2005 12:55:22 »
Dawson DJ;Burrows PC;Lobley RW;Holmes R;. The kinetics of monosaccharide absorption by human jejunal biopsies: evidence for active and passive processes. Digestion. 1987; 38: 124-132.
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