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  4. An essay in futility, too long to read :)
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An essay in futility, too long to read :)

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18280 on: 13/03/2021 15:03:19 »
Because that will be what you expect, that those laws rules and properties will change.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18281 on: 13/03/2021 15:10:35 »
and it comes back to the question of what 'dimensions' are. a construct or a 'origin', and that goes for all four of them. Length, width, height, time.  But we should exchange time for 'clocks' if we want it to be a construct, as I think. With 'time' becoming one of the 'laws' able to create a universe.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18282 on: 13/03/2021 15:17:34 »
The universe you consist of has a time, defined by your local clock. Me joining your frame of reference will share the same clock.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18283 on: 13/03/2021 15:19:39 »
We doing the same measurement, although under different relative motions, inside a black box, should be able to reach a agreement on them. Locally defined you and me share the same 'frame of reference' according to our experiments.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18284 on: 13/03/2021 15:21:06 »
Our clocks will, according to a distant observer, differ due to our relative motion being different from each other.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18285 on: 13/03/2021 15:22:57 »
Worth thinking of, isn't it?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18286 on: 13/03/2021 15:49:44 »
It doesn't really matter if we set the distant observer as being the origin from where set our different speeds, or not. The principle will be the same for him anyway, that he finds our clocks to differ relative his. None ticking the same.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18287 on: 13/03/2021 15:51:00 »
The mass of the black box?

Well, lets assume those two black boxes are 'identical' in all terms for it.
Except the relative motions.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18288 on: 13/03/2021 17:20:11 »
" Using my definitions it becomes a presumption to assume that you can set a clock to the very small even though you can define probabilities for it. What guarantees that your local macroscopic clock is what defines it? "

Locality, and relative motions. That's how we define repeatable experiments on earth.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18289 on: 13/03/2021 17:24:40 »
We also go out from an assumption that this will hold wherever you are. And we are 'testing it' repeatably due to earths and the solar system, and our galaxies relative 'motions'. And they are as real as can be, everything moves in this universe as far as I know.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18290 on: 13/03/2021 17:26:14 »
So motion exist, but what is it? If you're going to say displacements then you didn't get what I mean.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18291 on: 13/03/2021 17:30:46 »
For those thinking that a acceleration is what sets a time dilation it will though. They will want a same origin and different accelerations from it to reach those speeds.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18292 on: 13/03/2021 17:32:12 »
But then you have the black boxes, and their 'identical frames of reference' locally defined.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18293 on: 13/03/2021 17:40:26 »
We can do another experiment, two identical origins at different uniform motions. Two rockets, identical, leaving each one, accelerating at a identical pace, still finding each other having different clocks once being in a relative motion. 

No clock will be found to be the same here either. But the experiments will. This one contains of stipulations that needs to be fulfilled, stopping their acceleration at a same 'gravity' etc. but the point is that there is no way to define those origins relative speed, locally. So no matter your origin you start from a same local definition. Speeds doesn't matter for it locally.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18294 on: 13/03/2021 17:46:45 »
If it did you could assume that accelerating in the motion of what you define earth to have you would reach a higher speed than if you accelerated at a same pace against that 'motion'. You're welcome to prove this to be true, if you can.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18295 on: 13/03/2021 17:49:56 »
If you could it would mean that relativity is wrong. It would mean you finding a definition of absolute speeds, no longer relative. It's all about black boxes, not about using earth as your reference frame.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18296 on: 13/03/2021 17:59:46 »
It should also mean that you would have to expend more energy pushing yourself away, accelerating in the 'motion of earth', than you would have to accelerating against this motion, if I'm thinking right here.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18297 on: 13/03/2021 18:11:08 »
I haven't checked it up but I think that both Newton and Einstein would agree on this not being true. That relative motion would matter for the energy expended as you accelerate from it. If you define what you leave as your reference frame it will matter, but if you don't, staying in that black box it has no meaning what speed you define to your origin. That it matters in a collision is another thing depending on your relative speeds versus each other, and there it can be as complicated as you want it to be depending on the frames used for defining it.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18298 on: 13/03/2021 18:20:17 »
If you're starting to feel a slight headache by now I can assure you you're not alone.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #18299 on: 13/03/2021 18:29:37 »
What I mean about 'the frames' defining your collision. You can take two cars colliding, each one traveling towards each other at 50 km. You find a energy from those facts involved together with the mass. But let's assume one of the cars are moving against the motion of earth as defined relative some other galaxy, the other with it. It doesn't matter, does it?
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