[kurtosis]

Andrea,
Can you make sure you don't have an out-of-control fungal infection? I'm not saying POIS is a yeast infection but I've had a very stubborn one that resisted many attempts to clear it up. The usual antifungals like Diflucan just didn't resolve the problem.
I  think some of the allergies of POIS result from a compromised immune system and I'd be surprised if some other sufferers don't have persistent fungal infections. Talk to your doctor about this.

[urano75]

Hi Kurtosis,

I don't think I've fungal infections right now.
I frequently catch viral infections, sometimes bacteric ones, usually throat infections, especially after sexual activity I suspect. But I rarely have a fever. Low grade-chronic infections have probably been a problem for me for years, but now it's better than before.

I had candida and yeast infection 2 years ago when I crashed, but it is solved now.

Thanks,
Andrea

[LAPOISSE2]

Welcome Andrea ; It's good to have you on board ; You seem to have a long history with POIS(or Orgasm related symtoms) and I'm sure we can share a lot from your experience and ours.

I don't want to bring something new and probably not relevant in here but I thought it could be interesting :

My MD(diagnosis specialist) came out with something new what is possibly related to my symtoms : he thinks about pheochromocytoma  ;

The idea is that during orgasm, stress are strong emotion, the adrenals over react because of a tumor ; it release norepinephrine and noradrenaline that cause fast heart beat and intermitent hypertension and potentialy drains out dopamine ; It explains fatigue and cognitive symtoms.It's also connected to diabete.

I bought myself a tension metter ; I don't know if i do hypertension.

Usually pheochromocytoma is more obvious than POIS symtoms ; it trigger kind of crisis that our quite noticable but I thought it could exist some kind of slow release form of the disease

Anybody has known Hypertension problem ? Anybody has its Adrenals checked ?

[gabin]

http://mindrenewal.us/page13.html here is the list of symptoms of High Acetylcholine.
Acetylcholine is a chemical that controls the process of muscle contraction and relaxation.

I wonder if we can be high of acetylcholine, that causing muscle spasms, contraction etc.

Here's a message from one of forum users regarding overdose of acetylcholine by drugs:

I get excess ACh when combining Alpha GPC and ALCAR on the same day, even with a low dosage of each. I experience tension in the tops of my shoulders, into the sides of my neck. A headache appears with larger or multiple doses.

Neck tension and headaches are mentioned by a number of people on mind & muscle, usually related to ALCAR in some way, so I don't think they're the less common side effects in our area of concern.

[urano75]

Thanks Lapoisse.
I think that jumping to an adrenal tumor without checking more common adrenals dysfunctions is a big statement, what labs and diagnostics would support that so far?
I'm pretty confident that adrenals play a role into my POIS symptoms, in fact sex is for me a trigger that aggravates adrenal fatigue issues (low cortisol, low blood sugar, low blood pressure, low metabolism). I don't know if this can be generalized.
I'm here to learn if there can be other factors in play, related or not.

[nathan123]

Also google Post Coital Tristessee.  this name given in UK for POIS.  I think there are many sufferrers of POIS and they are not able to come into a particular platform to know what is POIS.  One of such names I found in google are Post Coital Headache, Post Coitial Tristessee, Post Coital Fatigue, Post coital tiredness and many names are there in google for POIS.   

Out of many sufferrers I hope atleast one of the sufferrer is finding the right treatment and cures his POIS.  We just require to find that person if any. 

From today, daily 2 hours I will spend time POIS study in the internet and hopefully we will get grand success in this year of 2013. 

[LAPOISSE2]

Thanks Lapoisse.
I think that jumping to an adrenal tumor without checking more common adrenals dysfunctions is a big statement, what labs and diagnostics would support that so far?
I'm pretty confident that adrenals play a role into my POIS symptoms, in fact sex is for me a trigger that aggravates adrenal fatigue issues (low cortisol, low blood sugar, low blood pressure, low metabolism). I don't know if this can be generalized.
I'm here to learn if there can be other factors in play, related or not.

Andrea, I'm sorry ; the message wasn't specificaly adressed to you ; actually it was just a "welcome message" to you and an other message about a potential lead to explore.

As far as I understand, there is no specific way to evaluate "adrenal fatigue" ; for mainstrem medecine, adrenals or either insuficient  or there is nothing ;

What is interesting in my opinion is the effect of overload of noradrenaline and adrenaline(caused by stress or something else) on dopamine depletion ; symtoms of POIS realy match with dopamine depletion ; I found an interesting paper on this :

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=177775

By the way, I also took SSRI for 2 years ; I've been of for 6 month now and from POIS point of view, it was the worse idea I had even if i got really nice nice relief for about 5 month.

[urano75]

Hi Lapoisse,
yes I understood the tumor hypotesis was not directed to me ;-)

There is a reliable enough lab test to check adrenal function, and it's 24h salivar test for cortisol/DHEA.

See e.g.:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

Moreover a blood panel covering steroid hormones can provide some useful insights.

I know that for mainstream medicine adrenal insufficiency = Addison's

I agree that my POIS symptoms match low dopamine and low cortisol symptoms. It's normal to feel a bit "depleted" after an orgasm I guess for awhile, and that should go along with a prolactin peak and a catecolammines fall. It's *not* normal to feel like that for days and with such intensity.

SSRI helped me survive for a long time before I found other, better ways, so I don't blame them. I just think they are not a good long term solution, cover some underlying problems and end up intoxicating the body, so the sooner one finds an alternative the better. It took 11 years for me. I can't even rule out they made my post-sex symptoms worse after some many years, even though they didn't affect my libido.

[LAPOISSE2]

Hi Andrea,

Hi did the tests(blood pressure and pupil) ; both are positive for me but not that much.

Also, i just talk to an endocrino MD and he thinks that if my adrenals was burnout, I'd have low cortisol wich is not the case ; However I'll have my catecholamines (blood and urine) and cortisol at 8am and 6pm tested ; I'll do it tomorow at day 2 after O, usually my worst day.
I keep you informed ;

Prolactin is also something that come up pretty often here ; prolactin levels are connected to orgasm and probably has an antagonist relation with dopamine : mine is always over the range but not that much and no pituary adenom on sight.

Have you tried NSAIDS ? ketoprofen combined with a bit of propanolol is the only thing that help me

[urano75]

Hi Andrea,

Hi did the tests(blood pressure and pupil) ; both are positive for me but not that much.

Also, i just talk to an endocrino MD and he thinks that if my adrenals was burnout, I'd have low cortisol wich is not the case ; However I'll have my catecholamines (blood and urine) and cortisol at 8am and 6pm tested ; I'll do it tomorow at day 2 after O, usually my worst day.
I keep you informed ;

Prolactin is also something that come up pretty often here ; prolactin levels are connected to orgasm and probably has an antagonist relation with dopamine : mine is always over the range but not that much and no pituary adenom on sight.

Have you tried NSAIDS ? ketoprofen combined with a bit of propanolol is the only thing that help me

Blood cortisol lab is usually not very useful...  have you taken a saliva test (AM, noon, PM, evening)? It's not enough to have values in range, it must be top range in the morning and bottom range in the evening.
Also DHEA (salivar and blood) and aldosterone should be looked at.

Prolactin might play a role yes, but mine was 11 and I think it's not considered a problem when <20. Also, it might have unexpected values in case of other hormonal imbalances, so I heard.

No NSAIDS for me thanks. I'm kind of natural-oriented guy in health, I use antinflammatory stuff like fish/krill oil, curcumin, but that's it. It's even too much that I take anti-histamines when allergy is too strong... :-)

[thereishope]

Hello guys, is there any way pois has something to do with the way ejaculation is accomplished? Does watching porn have anything to do with this? and if so is there someone on this forum that has pois but doesnt absolutely strictly ever watch porn?

Thank you for your time,

Chris

[urano75]

Hello guys, is there any way pois has something to do with the way ejaculation is accomplished? Does watching porn have anything to do with this? and if so is there someone on this forum that has pois but doesnt absolutely strictly ever watch porn?

Thank you for your time,

Chris

Hi Chris,
it doesn't make a difference for me how I reach an orgasm, it's a depleting experience anyway. Obviously having sex with someone you love is a much more rewarding experience in many senses than masturbating in front of a porn, but I've come to see that I eventually have the same symtpoms afterwards.

[urano75]

Hi urano75,

It does sound like you have POIS.  POIS is a strange thing, it can occur immediately with the onset of puberty (like for myself) or later in life ( like it seems for you).  I can tell immediately that you have been through a rough time.  Know that you are not alone in dealing with the symptoms of this and the depression it can often bring.  I have had a life-altering battle with it, but things changed a lot for me after finding this community.

I hope you can find some relief   I didn't quite catch, have you tried to induce a niacin flush before orgasm?  That's usually effective in reducing symptoms, and has helped me regain my sanity!

Welcome

So, yesterday evening I had a try with niacin before orgasm. I took 500mg of niacin 3 hours after dinner, which I understand are quite a bit, and didn't have a flush in the next hour. I didn't have a flush for the rest of the night actually. This was somewhat ironic, as I normally have flushes each time I take niacin on a full stomach, even though unpredictably few hours later. I did my thing anyway to see what happened even with no flush. Maybe symptoms are a bit less than average today, but I still feel muscular pains, weakness and some lack of motivation. I can't say yet if it really helps, this requires further experimentation.

I've read a lot on poiscenter about niacin and niacinamide but I'm new to this subject and am probably missing something, so I have some questions for the group:

- Has the mechanism of why niacin works for many with POIS symptoms been understood or at least guessed? What's the percentage of folks here which benefit from niacin, and what is likely to be their weak link?
- Specifically in my case, given my history of hypoadrenia, allergies and depression, it is likely I am high histamine, undermethylating and low dopamine/serotonin: is niacin supposed to help in this situation, or would it make it worse?
- Is it necessary to wait for a flush before O to make it effective, or is it only a signal to be sure that niacin has saturated? If the flush occurs in an unpredictable amount of time, or it never occurs as it happened yesterday, it might hard to manage, how to make it happen approximately at a wanted time?
- Does regularly using a full complex of B vitamins as I do interfere with the effectiveness of niacin for preventing POIS symptoms?

Many thanks!
Andrea

[Vincent M]

urano75, in my case I need to experience the flush before an "o" in order to get POIS relief. If I'm using freshly bought niacin less than a month old I can get a flush with 200mg if I haven't eaten for more than 10 hours. If the niacin is several months old I need 500mg or 600mg to get a flush after a 10 hour fast. I only experience symptom relief after a full night sleep and the relief comes in the form of increased endurance and reduced joint pain during exercise. I haven't noticed any benefit outside of increasing my ability to exercise, but I've only tried it maybe 7 times total. I wasn't taking any other vitamins at the time so I don't know if that would affect it.

500mg is a lot to try the first time. Some of our members have had intensely unpleasant flushes at that level. If you try it again with a fast I think you shouldn't go over 100 or 200mg just to be safe. Also taking niacin first thing in the morning before breakfast increases the chance of flush even greater than a 10 hr fast while awake for me at least.

[urano75]

urano75, in my case I need to experience the flush before an "o" in order to get POIS relief. If I'm using freshly bought niacin less than a month old I can get a flush with 200mg if I haven't eaten for more than 10 hours. If the niacin is several months old I need 500mg or 600mg to get a flush after a 10 hour fast. I only experience symptom relief after a full night sleep and the relief comes in the form of increased endurance and reduced joint pain during exercise. I haven't noticed any benefit outside of increasing my ability to exercise, but I've only tried it maybe 7 times total. I wasn't taking any other vitamins at the time so I don't know if that would affect it.

500mg is a lot to try the first time. Some of our members have had intensely unpleasant flushes at that level. If you try it again with a fast I think you shouldn't go over 100 or 200mg just to be safe. Also taking niacin first thing in the morning before breakfast increases the chance of flush even greater than a 10 hr fast while awake for me at least.

It's possible then that my niacin is not so fresh, I used to take 500mg of it months before (not for this particular reason) and had manageable flushes. I'll try and experiment with a new batch of smaller capsules. 10 hours fast is pretty much... Anyway I understand the main point is getting a flush, whatever the required dose.
I have some niacinamide (about 250mg daily) in my B-complex, that's possibly why my body is used to it and I require a larger dose of niacin to get a flush...
I also wonder if other methylating factors I'm taking might have an influence on the required dose. I take many things for many different reasons.
I understand niacin helps you with some physical symptoms, are there things it doesn't help you with?
Do you use other remedies for different issues?

Thanks!
Andrea

[urano75]

Vincent M, nevermind, I've just found a link to your treatment summary in your profile...
I'll read it thouroughly, unless you have anything to add here.
Sorry for asking already available info, I'm new and discover new pieces of info at any time.

[Vincent M]

It's quite alright. Niacin doesn't seem to help my cognitive symptoms at all, but the others who have benefited from it have reported it reduces cognitive impairment due to POIS.

[urano75]

While I'm going to experiment with Niacin following the rules you guys kindly suggested, I want to share with you my current supplementation/meds program.
It's a long one, not only oriented to adrenals/thyroid support but it covers all the basics, plus things I take for specific reasons and added up in time, plus things I've taken for awhile but I don't need anymore.
Just want to point out that I don't take all this stuff independently, but work with few health practitioners and MD's to decide what I need.

I post it for some reasons:
1) I want to share the many things that helped (or in some cases didn't help) in the last couple of years to raise from a state of depression, low-grade chronic infections, adrenal exhaustion and underactive thyroid (just in case anyone is coping with any of these conditions)
2) I want to check with you if there are things you don't see in the list and I should definitively try to help with outstanding POIS symptoms
3) I want to ask if you think that any of this stuff could interfere with niacin's effectiveness for POIS relief, or can in some way hinder a potential solution of POIS symptoms

- Thyroid Hormones (T3):

35mcgT3@4AM+20mcgT3@11AM+20mcgT3@6PM (total 75mcg per day)

- Adrenal support:

Pregnenolone 50mg
Ashwagandha/Phytisone complex (adaptogenics herbs) complex 3*2cps
Adrenergize (adrenal cortex extract) 2cps

- Aminos:

L-Tyrosine 2*3g (AM, noon)
5-HTP 100mg
MSM 3*3000mg
N-Acetyl-Cysteine 1000mg
L-Lysine   2*1g
L-Methionine 500mg

- Minerals:

Magnesium (citrate) 1000mg
Zinc (gluconate) 2*50mg
Copper (gluconate) 5mg
Chromium (picolinate) 500mcg
Selenium 200mcg
Humic & Fulvic Acids (liquid organic minerals)

- Vitamins:

B Complex - 2 cps, each one containing:

   Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 110 mg.
   Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 10 mg.
   Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg.
   Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
   Folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 400 mcg.
   Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg.
   Biotin 400 mcg.
   Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 110 mg.
   Choline Citrate 80 mg.


Vit. B5 3*3000mg
P-5-P 3*50mg

Vit. A 10000UI
Vit. C 3*1000mg + Citrus bioflavonoids
Vit. D3 5000UI
Vit. E (mixed tocopherols) 400mg
Vit. K2 (MK-7) 2*100mcg

- Others:

Ubiquinol 2*50mg
Lipoic Acid 2*300mg
Fish Oil 2*1000mg
Krill Oil 2*1000mg
Curcumin+Bioperine 3*1000mg
Stinging Nettles root extract 2*500mg
Quercetine 2*1g

Probiotics (as needed)
Digestive enzymes (every meal)

Zeolite (for chelating heavy metals)

- Things I'm going to add soon:

Niacin (when needed)
TMG
Mucuna Pruriens
Fenugreek+Garlic?

- Things I used to take in the last couple of years and not using now or dropped for several different reasons:

DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine)
Isocort
7-Keto-DHEA
Seriphos (Phosphatidylserine)
Deer Antler Velvet
Melatonin
AKG-Arginine
Iodine (liquid)
Coral Calcium
Megafood Bloobuilder (iron+C+B12+folate+beetroot)
Kelp tablets
Cat's claw
Berberine
Bentonite clay
...

- Meds used when necessary:
fexofenadine (the least effective dose for calming seasonal allergy)

- Meds I used in the past (and hopefully won't need anymore):
fluoxetine (for 11 years with few breaks, up to a couple of years ago)

I'll post it also in poiscenter, as well as my history.

[kurtosis]

That's an interesting. It's much more than I take. I found pregnenolone alone was enough to give me a notable boost in mood and energy so I have not idea what all that would do to me

Some of this supplementation is at cross purposes however. If you supplement methionine you're actually encouraging your body to make less methionine (probably via the SAM-e rate limiting) whereas taking methylfolate and methylcobalamin should increase the natural production and recycling of methionine.
Supplementing Methionine and SAM-e made me feel good (most of the time) but I get the same effect but just exploiting the methylation cycle and taking methyl folate.

BTW I had an O a few minutes ago and I feel fine. I've been trying to explain to people that I really am feeling a hell of a lot better.

[urano75]

That's an interesting. It's much more than I take. I found pregnenolone alone was enough to give me a notable boost in mood and energy so I have not idea what all that would do to me

Some of this supplementation is at cross purposes however. If you supplement methionine you're actually encouraging your body to make less methionine (probably via the SAM-e rate limiting) whereas taking methylfolate and methylcobalamin should increase the natural production and recycling of methionine.
Supplementing Methionine and SAM-e made me feel good (most of the time) but I get the same effect but just exploiting the methylation cycle and taking methyl folate.

BTW I had an O a few minutes ago and I feel fine. I've been trying to explain to people that I really am feeling a hell of a lot better.

Thanks K.

Pregnenolone has been one of the best hits for me, but clearly not enough. T3 has been the next step forward.

I've reintroduced methionine recently, hoping that it could help decreasing histamine especially now during allergic season and increasing methylation in general (more dopamine, serotonine...). That's why I'm going to add TMG as well (which I understand you have in your program as well). That would help recycling methionine I guess, and increase methylation. Methyl-folate and methyl-cobalamine are already part of my B-complex. Adding methionine and supporting its recycling should potentiate it all, do I understand correctly? I used SAM-e in the past, it lifted my depression a bit at that time but unfortunately not enough. Also it's expensive and easily degraded.

I'm not sure how extra niacin will fit in this picture. If it's good to take it regularly (besides what's already in my B-complex), or try it just before an O.