[guest39538]

Those inputs are sensed by   sensitive part of organisms which  convert them into an internal process, usually electrochemical type. After interaction with other internal processes, some actions are done by actuator unit, such as chemical release, electricity, and movements.

Simplest form of processes connecting input and output are reflexes. They contain only a few  neural network layers.
As arms race going on, organisms develop more complex internal process with more layers of neural network system. They start to show instinct.

1 tB = ^2 tA  ?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Simplest form of processes connecting input and output are reflexes. They contain only a few  neural network layers.
As arms race going on, organisms develop more complex internal process with more layers of neural network system. They start to show instinct.

Instinctive behaviors are inherited genetically. In computer world, it is like Read Only Memory.
 It is crucial to have basic survival instincts according to organisms' ways of life. But some environmental changes happen frequently, which need some behavioral adjustment accordingly. It becomes impractical to store all possible required behaviors as instincts as organisms getting more complex.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Instinctive behaviors are inherited genetically. In computer world, it is like Read Only Memory.
 It is crucial to have basic survival instincts according to organisms' ways of life. But some environmental changes happen frequently, which need some behavioral adjustment accordingly. It becomes impractical to store all possible required behaviors as instincts as organisms getting more complex.

Some organisms developed additional information storage apart from their genes. Instead, it's part of their neural networks system, which is regarded as organisms' internal process. It's more flexible and can accommodate more quick and frequent changes.
It enabled learned behaviors, either from organisms' own experiences or taught by their parents.

[guest39538]

Instinctive behaviors are inherited genetically. In computer world, it is like Read Only Memory.
 It is crucial to have basic survival instincts according to organisms' ways of life. But some environmental changes happen frequently, which need some behavioral adjustment accordingly. It becomes impractical to store all possible required behaviors as instincts as organisms getting more complex.

Some organisms developed additional information storage apart from their genes. Instead, it's part of their neural networks system. It's more flexible and can accommodate more quick and frequent changes.
It enabled learned behaviors, either from organisms' own experiences or taught by their parents.

Are you talking to yourself?

Interesting idea though I must admit.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Are you talking to yourself?

Interesting idea though I must admit.

I have stated my intention for starting this thread in previous posts.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Some organisms developed additional information storage apart from their genes. Instead, it's part of their neural networks system. It's more flexible and can accommodate more quick and frequent changes.
It enabled learned behaviors, either from organisms' own experiences or taught by their parents.

This neural information storage provided a new battlefield for  competition of replicating information. Since it controls behavior of organisms, competition among organisms became its proxy war.

[guest39538]

In this thread I'd like to discuss if there is a goal or desired condition which is applicable for any organisms who have adequate time to evolve or develop until they are basically independent from condition of their natural environments.

Back to your opening post, the goals would be to evolve even further but keeping in touch with their natural environment and the reality that surrounds them.

For to seek knowledge is to evolve, to seek no-thing is nothingness.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Back to your opening post, the goals would be to evolve even further but keeping in touch with their natural environment and the reality that surrounds them.

For to seek knowledge is to evolve, to seek no-thing is nothingness.

Some people argue that natural world view inevitably leads to nihilism, which makes them seek refuge to the supernatural. Here I try to provide an alternative, by using as few as possible assumptions.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

This neural information storage provided a new battlefield for  competition of replicating information. Since it controls behavior of organisms, competition among organisms became its proxy war.

It also enabled organisms to navigate their surrounding, searching for food sources and shelter. Basically, they created spatial model of their environment and memorized it in their brain to be used later for their advantage.
Arms race push some organisms to improve their ability to model their surrounding . Improvements are made in sensory systems in form of higher resolution, depth and clarity. Information processing systems improved as well in form of processing speed, storage capacity, and deeper processing layers. The improvements continue until reaching point of equilibrium, where the benefits equal the cost of used resources.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Some parents' features are not developed yet in the newborns.
Hence it would be beneficial for some parents to take care of their young because it can improve the survival chances of the organism's structure.

It's necessary for those parents to have more than one child in each generation, at least on average. Otherwise, the number of their similar copies will be in a steady decline, and eventually lead to extinction.
This means that they will have siblings who grow together, which creates emotional bonds among them.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

This means that they will have siblings who grow together, which creates emotional bonds among them.

closely related individuals can create a group that will help them survive by giving advantages in acquiring resources and avoiding dangers.
But this also creates competition among groups, with the winners will end up having larger number of members.
Large groups require their members to coordinate effectively. First by identifying other members of the group and differentiate them from other groups' members. Next, by effective communication methods so each member can contribute to achieve common goals of the group.
Those things demand larger memory capacity, faster information process, and ability to express individual's intentions, such as by facial expression and vocalization.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Those things demand larger memory capacity, faster information process, and ability to express individual's intentions, such as by facial expression and vocalization.

More complex interactions among group members requires more complex expression, hence promoting the creation of language. Resource management requires concept of number and quantity.
Group members also need to resolve conflicts among them, thus pushing them to create social rules and basic morality.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

More complex interactions among group members requires more complex expression, hence promoting the creation of language. Resource management requires concept of number and quantity.Group members also need to resolve conflicts among them, thus pushing them to create social rules and basic morality.

These developments require even more information storage. At some point, keeping them all internally is no longer practical. It promotes the use of external information storage.
It has the same working principle as internal information storage, which is reconfiguration of something to represent something else. Naturally, internal information storage can be found in configuration of neural cells. While external information storage can be found in drawings, statues, writings, and other artworks.
External information storages have some advantages, especially that they can be much more durable than internal ones, even can last much longer than their users' life time. They can also be accessed by many users, which help collaboration efforts.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Lifeless things tend to break down, which means that their configuration change to become less ordered.

The breakdowns are usually caused by changes in the environment.
Their configuration will have better chance to survive if they can duplicate/self replicate, i.e. induce their environment to replicate their configuration, hence creating backups. So even if the original copy does break down, some of its duplicates might survive.

Another way to prevent breakdowns is by protecting the configuration, which is essentially creating more conducive environment around the things to be protected. The protection techniques also evolve, along with the storyline of replication as described previously.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Let's take a chess game for an example. The priorities, in my opinion (sorted from highest) :
1. Checkmate the opponent's king.
2. Prevent checkmate on own king.
3. Preserve time and energy.
Try to get #1. If it's impossible, try to get #2 (draw). If it's also impossible, try to get #3 by resigning.

I think I got the priorities wrong. Above were sorted by rewards.
It's impossible to achieve 1 while failing to achieve 2. Hence, if we take the possibilities into account, the correct priorities should be
1. Prevent checkmate on own king.
2. Checkmate the opponent's king.
3. Preserve time and energy.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

In an outline, increasing complexity of a system can be classified in to two methods, i.e. accumulating more parts around a point in space, and establishing communication methods to enable coordinated actions among different parts located at different points in space.
Examples of the first method: accumulating of genetic materials inside cell's nucleus, endosymbiosis, building of cities, library, data servers.
Examples of the second method: development of neuron and neural network, language (sign, spoken, written), electronic telecommunication, internet.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

In my other thread i've argued that consciousness is a continuum ranged from 0 to infinity, whith rocks and Laplace's demon representing those lower and upper limits. Everything else lies in between, including viruses, plants and animals which occur naturally, as well as artificial ones like single loop process controllers, computer viruses, deep blue, alpha zero.
We can see that artificial consciuous agents are less attached to the hardware, while having more emphasize on the software. The hardware can be more easily replaced without changing their functionality. They are also easier to upgrade. Those agents can share the same hardware, but each of them can also lives in several hardwares at once connected in a network, such as bots in RTS games, trading bots, and bots employed to optimize process controls. They can also live in virtual machines, which in turn can be made of several interconnected hardwares.
But hardware attachments of naturally occuring conscious agents are not absolute either. Cells making up a human fetus can be completely replaced by other cells when it has grown up as an adult. The identity is only preserved by continuity of gradual changes.
Our common knowledge tells us that so far our consciousness has been progressing upward. It is unthinkable to suggest that we (currently existing conscious agents) must strive to reduce our consciousness level. It is also unreasonable to suggest that we must keep our consiousness level as it is now; at which point we should stop the progress? why so?
The only reasonable option that's left is to improve our consciousness level so in the future it should be higher than now.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Realized or not, humans and their ancestors have strived to improve their consciousness level. They provide the best affordable nutrition for their children. They also try to provide the best affordable education. They even try to improve the genetics of their children by selecting the best affordable spouses.
Currently their effort to improve the condition of their successors are limited in effectiveness, efficiency, accuracy, and precision. They can't always get what they want, and sometimes unwanted side effects are not avoidable.
If someday we find some methods to improve our condition effectively, efficiently, accurately, and precisely, what stops us from hacking our own body to get what we want and avoid what we don't want?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

In my other thread i've argued that consciousness is a continuum ranged from 0 to infinity, whith rocks and Laplace's demon representing those lower and upper limits. Everything else lies in between, including viruses, plants and animals which occur naturally, as well as artificial ones like single loop process controllers, computer viruses, deep blue, alpha zero.

This unbalanced scale may make us wonder, why half of the scale (negative side) is left unoccupied? Is it possible for an agent to have negative consciousness? What does it means?
According to Wikipedia,

In mathematics, a negative number is a real number that is less than zero. Negative numbers represent opposites. If positive represents a movement to the right, negative represents a movement to the left. If positive represents above sea level, then negative represents below sea level. If positive represents a deposit, negative represents a withdrawal. They are often used to represent the magnitude of a loss or deficiency. A debt that is owed may be thought of as a negative asset, a decrease in some quantity may be thought of as a negative increase. If a quantity may have either of two opposite senses, then one may choose to distinguish between those senses—perhaps arbitrarily—as positive and negative. Negative numbers are used to describe values on a scale that goes below zero, such as the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales for temperature. The laws of arithmetic for negative numbers ensure that the common sense idea of an opposite is reflected in arithmetic. For example, −(−3) = 3 because the opposite of an opposite is the original value.

Thus by following the pattern, we can infer that agents with negative level of consciousness are those with non-zero potential/information processing capability, but somehow misled that effectively they become self destructive (or destructive to their peers or the bigger system they are being a part of), hence cancelling out that potential/capability.
Some examples come into my mind are mass suicidal group such as that's led by Jim Jones. Other examples include other religious groups who believe that end time is near and nothing they can do to prevent it. Fundamental nihilist may be included in this list.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I've also argued that consciousness is a multidimensional parameter. But we can make comparison among conscious agents by projecting its components onto time as one dominant axis, and measure how far ahead they can make and execute effective plannings.
Like any other systems, an agent can be broken down into three main parts: input, process, and output.

Conscious agents get information from their inputs to build a simplified model of their current surrounding environment. The model is then processed by the system's core using some algorithm/function involving current inputs, memorized previous inputs, some internal/built in parameters, as well as current and memorized previous outputs.
An efficient system must use minimum resource to achieve target. One way to do that is by data compression. The agent's environment is continuously changing, hence the data from the input parts must also change accordingly. Memorized previous inputs then would accumulate from time to time. Without data compression, the memory would be depleted in no time.
Another way is by discarding unnecessary/insignificant data. Data that don't have impact to the result must be removed and overwritten in the memory.
Yet another way to become an efficient system is by resource and load sharing. A multicellular organim is basically a collection of cells that work together for common goals, which are to survive and thrive. They develop specialized tissues, which means some cells develop some functions to be more effective at doing some task while abandoning other functions to save resource and be more efficient. Not every cell has to be photosensitive, and not every cell has to develop hard shell to provide protection.

Multicellularity allows an organism to exceed the size limits normally imposed by diffusion: single cells with increased size have a decreased surface-to-volume ratio and have difficulty absorbing sufficient nutrients and transporting them throughout the cell. Multicellular organisms thus have the competitive advantages of an increase in size without its limitations. They can have longer lifespans as they can continue living when individual cells die. Multicellularity also permits increasing complexity by allowing differentiation of cell types within one organism.

The necessity of data compression becomes more apparent the higher the conscience level of the agent is. It's even become inevitable for Laplace's demon. Without data compression, all matter in universe will be used up as memory modelling the universe itself in current state, leaving nothing for input and output parts. Without input and output, an agent can not execute its plan.