[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

So quite possibly the terminal goal is to have a universe with no life.  If that is the goal then according to your idea anything you can do to hasten the extinction of life on earth would be a moral action.

You misunderstood my idea because you haven't defined goal clearly.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

But since there is not a universal terminal goal

Do you think that goal exists?
Does the word goal has any meaning?
How do you define it?

I just found your post in my other thread.

There is no goal.

Since you already concluded that goal doesn't exist, it follows that any kind of goal doesn't exist either, including a universal goal and terminal goal. It makes your position points to the last row in the truth table below.

Here is the truth table for universal terminal goal.

1 in the left column means that there is something called a goal, while 0 means denial of it.
The middle column classifies the goals in time domain. 1 means there are terminal goals, while 0 means all goals are temporary/instrumental.
The right column classifies the goals in spatial domain. 1 means there are universal goals, while 0 means all goals are partial.
x in the bottom row means that their values are meaningless, since the existence of goals have already been denied.

Since the word goal can be found in dictionaries, and many people make decisions based on what they call their goals, I wonder how do you define goal, and how do you make decisions?

[alancalverd]

Since you already concluded that goal doesn't exist, it follows that any kind of goal doesn't exist either, including a universal goal and terminal goal.

No. Seriously bad logic! I thought you were an engineer not a philosopher!

Any particle in a bottle of water can be observed moving. Each movement is entirely determined by the history and immediate environment of the particle, so in principle you could define the goal (where it will be next) for every particle at any instant. But the bulk liquid is stationary - multiple individual goals do not necessarily add up to a universal goal unless you allow stasis to be a goal.

The absence of a collective or longterm goal does not imply the absence of any short-term or individual goals.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Since you already concluded that goal doesn't exist, it follows that any kind of goal doesn't exist either, including a universal goal and terminal goal.

No. Seriously bad logic! I thought you were an engineer not a philosopher!

Any particle in a bottle of water can be observed moving. Each movement is entirely determined by the history and immediate environment of the particle, so in principle you could define the goal (where it will be next) for every particle at any instant. But the bulk liquid is stationary - multiple individual goals do not necessarily add up to a universal goal unless you allow stasis to be a goal.

The absence of a collective or longterm goal does not imply the absence of any short-term or individual goals.

No. Seriously bad logic! I thought you were an engineer not a philosopher!

If you think that unicorn doesn't exist, you must also think that pink unicorns don't exist either. If you have difficulty in understanding this, you can start by drawing Venn diagrams.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

The absence of a collective or longterm goal does not imply the absence of any short-term or individual goals.

When someone says that they don't have any long term goal but don't commit suicide, essentially their long term goals include staying alive as long as they can. It's driven by instincts as products of evolutionary process. In other words, their long term goal is following their instincts as far as they can.

[Origin]

When someone says that they don't have any long term goal but don't commit suicide, essentially their long term goals include staying alive as long as they can.

You clearly have no idea what a goal is nor do you seem to employ logic in your discussions. 
Using your 'logic', I guess since I have never been south of the equator, my goal is to stay in the northern hemisphere?

[Origin]

But since there is not a universal terminal goal

Do you think that goal exists?
Does the word goal has any meaning?
How do you define it?

I see no evidence of any goal so until I see some evidence I think no goal exists.

The word goal does have a meaning.  Go to Google and put in "goal meaning" to find out what it is.

The same way that Websters dictionary defines it.

[Origin]

However it seems that every planet we have discovered appears to be sterile.

Why do you exclude the earth?
How many earth-like planets did you accounted for in your conclusion?
Don't you know that some people are trying to build human colonies on the moon and Mars?

I excluded earth because there is life on earth.  Sorry this confused you, I should have said every exoplanet.

I have included all exoplanets discovered.

Nobody is trying to build human colonies on the moon or mars.  Some people are talking about it.  Currently there is no safe way to even get to mars let alone build colonies there.

[alancalverd]

When someone says that they don't have any long term goal but don't commit suicide, essentially their long term goals include staying alive as long as they can.

Wrong.
I intend to commit suicide, but probably not in the next six years. I want to die before life becomes intolerable, and from where I stand now, that isn't a long term objective even if it is beyond the working horizon of politics and economics.
I'm planting trees that will probably live 150 years: my personal objective isn't to see them die, but to ensure that they take root and grow whilst I am alive.
The chances are that my heirs and successors may want to cut the trees down, thus negating the possibility of their being part of a universal terminal goal.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I intend to commit suicide, but probably not in the next six years. I want to die before life becomes intolerable, and from where I stand now, that isn't a long term objective even if it is beyond the working horizon of politics and economics.

Why would you wait until your life becomes intolerable? What do you plan to do until then?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Nobody is trying to build human colonies on the moon or mars.  Some people are talking about it.  Currently there is no safe way to even get to mars let alone build colonies there.

Planning, budgetary, and designing are parts of projects. You can ask NASA or other space agencies.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

When someone says that they don't have any long term goal but don't commit suicide, essentially their long term goals include staying alive as long as they can.

You clearly have no idea what a goal is nor do you seem to employ logic in your discussions. 
Using your 'logic', I guess since I have never been south of the equator, my goal is to stay in the northern hemisphere?

Your statement is a product of how you understand my description of goal using your logic and assumptions.
Here's how I define goal in this thread.

If you have difficulty in viewing the video, here's the brief summary: A goal is a pursued condition.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Currently there is no safe way to even get to mars let alone build colonies there.

A hundred years ago, there was no safe way to get to the moon. Humans successfully got to the moon because someone did try to make the way, not just complained that there was no safe way yet to get there.

[alancalverd]

To date, 30 astronauts and cosmonauts have died in flight-related accidents, and 12 have walked on the moon.  When not working with powerful magnetic and RF fields, ionising radiation, and sick animals, I enjoy offshore sailing, crosscountry skiing, and performing aerobatics in a glider, but getting to the moon doesn't fit my definition of "safe".

[alancalverd]

Why would you wait until your life becomes intolerable? What do you plan to do until then?

See above.

I did volunteer for a one-way trip to Mars at age 60 but I'm probably too old and unfit now to survive the journey and do anything useful at the other end.

[Origin]

A goal is a pursuit condition

Well that wraps up the discussion nicely, bye.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

To date, 30 astronauts and cosmonauts have died in flight-related accidents, and 12 have walked on the moon.  When not working with powerful magnetic and RF fields, ionising radiation, and sick animals, I enjoy offshore sailing, crosscountry skiing, and performing aerobatics in a glider, but getting to the moon doesn't fit my definition of "safe".

Not yet.
Flying on airplane wasn't safe either for quite some time, until it was. Thanks to tireless efforts of previous generations of engineers, inventors, and investors.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

A goal is a pursuit condition

Well that wraps up the discussion nicely, bye.

I should have written "A goal is a pursued condition".
If you think you find a flaw in my logic or assumptions, please let me know.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Is General Motors PREPARING for a 2nd BAILOUT? Answer inside + Faultium: GM's Faulty EV Plan

Sections:
00:00 - Start
02:14 - PART 1: ANALYZING GM's EV PLAN
04:22 - --1 Planning is Overrated
06:09 - --2 Sharpening the Axe
10:48 - --3 Great Bolts of Fire!
13:08 - --4 Lacking Basic Knowledge
15:23 - --5 Does GM Stand a Chance?
16:53 - PART 2: PREPARING FOR BAILOUT
17:33 - --1 Agency Problem
25:10 - --2 Subsidies and Loans
28:45 - --3 Preparing for Bailout!
29:49 - --4 The immorality of it all

When performance indicators become the goal themselves, they are no longer good indicators.
Obedience to rules can be seen as indicators. But if it becomes the goal itself, like in deontology, it's no longer good indicator.

[alancalverd]

When performance indicators become the goal themselves, they are no longer good indicators.

Interesting that this is your conclusion from the study of one of the ultimate capitalist free-market enterprises. You could reach the same conclusion from studying almost any industry under USSR communist rule - the ultimate command economy.

A performance indicator, like IQ, can be a perfect indicator of whatever it measures. The problem is that whatever it measures may not be relevant to the real objective. As the saying goes, you don't fatten a pig by weighing it. The problem with very large organisations, be they industries or entire nations, is that the remuneration  of the decisionmakers at the top depends on measures of past performance, which can slip out of phase with future demand.

The uncertainty principle strongly applies to data. A database can be accurate or up to date, but not both, and the more detail and precision the boss requires, the less it will reflect the current, let alone future, state of the product. 

The longterm success of a venture actually depends on the inventors and engineers in the middle, who determine future demand by innovation and improvement. Or, in the case of Coke and the VW Beetle, getting it right first time!