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  4. What exactly is gravity?
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What exactly is gravity?

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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #180 on: 22/08/2020 16:47:23 »
Quote from: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 22/08/2020 16:23:40
I mean, if not clear:
 "WHAT would be the mathematical/geometrical "possibilities" if universal expansion was to reach the impossible edge of the universe, would it be forced to bend itself by splitting and multiplying volume, rules, wherever, so to "turn around"and reach infinity again?
Einstein has taken us to a different world.  It is true, it is a big topic, expansion or contraction of universe.  In my view, first we must be in a position to say, what exactly is gravity on Earth.  Further, we must have a perfect idea on functioning of our solar system.  But, here, un-certainity prevails and for all practical purposes we are taking Newtons inverse square law, which, we know, is incorrect.
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #181 on: 22/08/2020 17:05:24 »
Well, it is true that Light is composed of electromagnetic waves, or as a collection particles, according to the wave-particle duality nature of light.  This spreading of light is known as 'divergence'.  A narrower beam of light spreads out more than a wider beam.

It is known fact that Gravity bends light and it is proved one.  When it bends light, in a strong gravity field such as Earth, if light particles start moving out,  it also aids in divergence or propagation.  We have only invented method of conversion and Gravity is aiding in propagation.

Light travels faster in vacuum than any other medium. This is because there is no obstruction in vacuum for the propagation of light and thus, the refractive index of vacuum is the lowest.  Well, it is true that gravity is matter blind.  While creating vacuum, we have removed air and in turn all particles moves out along with air.  So, without particles, gravity will not stay and moves out freely. 

So, finally,  without presence of particles, spread of gravity is weak.  In turn it affects propagation of light.
 

« Last Edit: 22/08/2020 17:47:00 by pasala »
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #182 on: 23/08/2020 16:20:12 »
Does equivalence principle, equated properly:

Galileo Galilei’s wrote this in 1632 even before Newton has published his famous work.

“If you are in a closed room on a ship sailing at a constant speed and the ride is perfectly smooth, objects behave as they would on land. There’s no physical experiment you could conduct to tell whether you’re moving or stationary (assuming you’re not peeking out of a porthole).

This is a simple insight into what is happening in his surroundings. 
01  You must be in a closed room of a ship and no porthole.
02  The ship must move at constant speed and smoothly.

Basic idea of Galileo is that, if the room is closed and if the ride of the ship is smooth, inside room, you will get the feeling as if on land.  This is an excellent idea.

Einstein’s equivalence is an extension to Galileo Galilei’s, relative motion of objects.

“Is there any physical experiment you could do within the confines of your spaceship to tell whether you really were accelerating through space (assuming there were no windows to look out from), or if, instead, you were inside a spaceship stationary on the surface of Earth? Einstein said no—just as Galileo imagined the indistinguishability between a person inside a smooth-sailing ship (confined without windows) and a person on land, Einstein realised that the effects of acceleration and gravity were indistinguishable too. This is called the equivalence principle”.

01  The cabin of the space ship must be closed and there are no windows to look or opened.
02  Spaceship must move at constant speed and smoothly.

If the cabin of the spaceship is closed and  accelerates smoothly, in such condition, you will get the feeling as if on land.

This is the equivalence principle and it tells indistinguishability between a person inside the room of a  smooth sailing ship and  to a person in the cabin of the ship accelerating smoothly.  Further, in both the cases,  the person must be in a closed room and the sailing or acceleration must be smooth, in such condition, the person inside the ship or space ship gets the feeling as if on land.  This is equivalence principle.

But, here, Einstein simply added effects of acceleration to Gravity.  This is separate one, and how it tells indistinguishability.  For this, there is no equivalence at all.  Einstein’s idea is that, the space ship is far away from all huge masses, in deep space, still there is gravity inside the cabin of the space ship, why?.  It is only answer to this question, there is no indistinguishability or comparison to anything.

Galileo’s idea is excellent and extraordinary.   In a closed room, if the ship is sailing smoothly, ‘I am getting the feeling as if on land’.

Earth is also moving with constant velocity, but we are not getting this feeling, since it is a closed one.   This is the core idea behind relativity, and is the same reason why we don’t feel our planet’s movement around the sun, or our solar system’s movement through the galaxy.

Einstein’s idea, effects of acceleration to Gravity is different one.  It is true that the cabin of the space ship is locked in a gravity field.  One of the crew, whose weight is 75 kgs on Earth, continues to be the same even after closing the cabin of the space ship.  As the space ship accelerates into deep space, there is no change, increase or decrease in the weight of the person inside cabin.

Experiments conducted inside the spaceship during acceleration and deceleration would show that something’s changing.  It is nothing but gravity field only.  While accelerating or decelerating the space ship, you are only moving the frame and in turn gravity field is changing its position.  While changing its position, gravity is pushing you in opposite direction.  If the space ship accelerates forward, gravity start collecting at the bottom. It shows that the “Gravity field” itself is heavier.  Its very presence i.e., density on Earth or any mass, decides gravity on that planet. 

Gravity is not what we are thinking.

Yours
Psreddy
« Last Edit: 23/08/2020 16:22:31 by pasala »
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #183 on: 30/08/2020 18:26:45 »
Does equivalence principle, equated properly:

Well, it is true that Galileo Galilei’s equivalence is the base for relativity.  But here we are not analyzing what galileo said and mostly concentrating on what Einstein said. 

Einstein says that there is also indistinguishability, as assumed by Galileo in the case of smooth sailing ship, in a closed cabin of space ship.  That is right. 

But, what Galileo said, in a closed room, if the sailing is smooth, things are behaving as if on land.  This is the core idea. 

Here basically indistinguishability is in between:

Closed room of smooth sailing ship  =  Earth.

But, Einstein left this indistinguishability.  His idea is that, there is also indistinguishability in closed room of a space ship to Earth.  Things in the closed room of a space ship, if the acceleration is smooth, behaves as if on land.

There is no doubt about, what Einstein said.

Basically, Galileo’s indistinguishability is different one.   Things in a closed room of a ship, if the sailing is smooth, behaves as if on land.  If there is a porthole, matter is different. 

What Galileo’s idea tells us, Similar to that of smooth sailing ship, Earth is also rotating with lot of velocity.  Like a closed room of a ship, Earth is also closed one.  That is why, there is indistinguishability.

This is the reason why we don’t feel our planet’s rotation and also revolution around the sun, or our solar system’s movement through the galaxy.

Yours
Psreddy
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #184 on: 20/09/2020 17:51:12 »
Well, even today, gravity is mysterious one and we are not in a position to say this is “what exactly is gravity”. 

Ok, suppose if you pick up an object and throw it with little momentum it will come down to Earth only.  As assumed by Newton if you threw it with too much momentum, it will speed away from the planet, start beginning its journey around the Earth, along with moon.  By the time of Newton science is not developed.  Newton realized that the same invisible force that gives you weight on earth is also affecting the movements of moon.  He has drawn these conclusions taking some of the facts, moon orbiting Earth. 

“Albert Einstein proposed that massive objects warp and curve the universe, resulting in other objects moving on or orbiting along those curves—and that this is what we experience as gravity.

In Einstein’s view, gravity is far from a static, unchanging force—it is a fundamental part of the structure of the universe, which curves and twists and ripples as objects move and rotate and jostle about”.

By the time of Einstein science developed a lot and clear picture on functioning of our solar system came out.  All the planets are moving in circular orbit, exactly in their paths around the Sun. 

So, Einstein predicted that Sun curved or distorted or created paths around it and in this paths all other planets are moving.   

Further,  Einstein knew that there are sub-paths created by masses in a curved path, they are just moving.  For example, Earth is a huge mass and it distorted or curved space time around it and moon is just making its journey in this curved path.

It is true that Sun distorted or curved the space time around it.  We knew this, since planets are moving in this paths. 

However, as per my knowledge goes, Einstein tensors are not clear on how mass distort or curve space time or area up to which it distort them.  It is also not clear, what is being curved.

But, Einstein’s thought experiments are wonderful and beyond imagination of an ordinary brain. 

He equated “acceleration to Gravity as indistinguishable”.  Well, space cabin is locked here on the surface of the Earth where there is strong gravity field.  As the space ship accelerates, there is no sign of  increase or decrease of gravity. Only difference is, as long as the space ship accelerates, there is gravity inside the cabin of the space ship, why?,  Except this, there is no valid question or solution to this by Einstein. 

But, by this, we can draw number of wonderful conclusions.  It is true that there is strong gravity on this Earth.  Cabin of the space ship is blocked here in this gravity field only.  So, it tells us:
01  A part of the gravity can be packed in a small area such as cabin.
02  Even if we take this as medium, quantity packed in a small area such as cabin is very small.
03  In spite of quantity being small, it gives same weight.
04  This is in distinguishability.
05  As the space ship accelerates and moves into deep space,  small quantity of medium or gravity, packed in a small area such as cabin, remains intact.   

Further it is also proved that:
If the space ship accelerates or decelerates, something is moving or changing in the space cabin, pushing the objects in the opposite side.

Here also, it is the space ship that is accelerating forward and in turn, it lifts the cabin and in turn cabin lifts the contents therein.  It is interlinked to each other.   

As the cabin moves forward, gravity which is at rest, remains then and there, but the medium density at the bottom increases, resulting in additional gravity at the bottom.

Einstein’s equation “acceleration to gravity” clearly tells us that gravity is not attraction of masses and at the same time is not spatial flow, but is a field present on the Earth.

Only thing, we have to explore how this field came into existence and “what exactly this field is”.

Yours
Psreddy
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #185 on: 27/09/2020 15:54:52 »
PRIMARY EVIDENCE OF GRAVITY:

Well, it is known fact that, when Newton was sitting beneath an apple tree, an apple hit his head.  Newton started thinking, why don’t apple remain then and there in the tree, what force is pulling it.
 
Soon, he realized that the same force that pulled apple to ground is also keeping the planets in their position. It is said that it is the base for inverse square law.

I think it is one of the primary evidence, that one can observe or see them directly on Earth.

Another important evidence that one can see or observe is “TIDES”.  Tides are naturally occurring rise and fall in the level of water in oceans, bays, gulfs and inlets. They are the direct result of the moon's gravitational pull on earth. The moon's gravity creates two bulges in earth's oceans.

It is true, tides are due to gravitational pull of Moon on Earth.  If we take Newton’s inverse square law, it is due to attraction of masses.  Here, there is no scope in change of mass, Earth and Moon and it is the distance that plays key role.  When they are nearest to each other, the moon is in the point of its orbit called the perigee, and its pull on Earth is the strongest.

The moon's gravity reaches all parts of Earth, but its pull only noticeably affects large bodies of water, resulting in tides.

When the moon is at its full or new moon phase, high tides are at their highest, while low tides are lower than usual. Called spring tides, these tides occur when the sun, moon and the Earth all line up.

Einstein’s Gravity:
“Matter tells space how to curve, and curved space tells matter how to move. That's the basic principle behind Einstein's General Relativity, which linked, for the first time, the phenomenon of gravity with that of spacetime and relativity”.


Ok, Earth is a huge mass, it curved or distorted space time.  Similarly Moon also curved or distorted space time.  Moon is only moving inertially in the curved space time distorted by Earth.

Einstein’s general relativity, never gives us an idea or tells us how mass curves the space time and what exactly is being curved.  So, Einstein’s theory is incomplete and he left gravity an unfinished agenda.

Well, it is known fact that Newton’s inverse square law is incorrect.  Yet we are following it because General relativity is incomplete. 

In the words of Newton:
“Gravity must be caused by an agent acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I have left to the consideration of my readers”.

Yes, whatever Newton’s assumption is 100% correct.  Tides are being caused by an agent or medium, which is influencing curved space time.  Ok, let us analyse it in detail. 

Leaving other things, let us take it as New moon or full moon day:

Event 1:

Let us imagine that  three planets, Sun, Earth and Moon  are at rest or stationary.  These planets are not rotating or going round the Sun.  Since these planets are in straight line energy moves straightly.  Energy from the Sun hits gravity of Moon and charges it.  Once again moon reflects it towards the Earth.  It is a continuous process.  In turn this energy, once again charges gravity of Earth.

Here it all depends on mass size, if the size is big enough, more energy is reflected back into space. Here, as assumed by us all the three planets are at rest or stationary. 

As assumed by Einstein, for an observer it is an event 1. 

At this event,  energy from Sun moves straight, in turn moon reflects it directly and it only charges gravity field of Earth and there is no scope for tides.

Let us move to event 2:

Now Sun started rotating against its axis and in turn it dragged the gravity field surrounding it.  If Sun started rotating means, it is not mass alone but also strong gravity field adjacent to its space time.   Particles start coming out with certain amount of force or pressure.  Electromagnetic waves start moving in 180 degree angle.  Energy start flowing in the space time.  They hit the curved space time of the planets in an angular manner and the curved space time gains momentum and in turn it drags the planet. 

I think, this is what Einstein said, mass tells space time how to curves the curved  space time tells mass how to move.  This is wonderful quotation, indeed, but lack of explanation. 

Galileo’s indistinguishability, clearly tells us that all the planets are not open but closed.  So they absorb most of these effects. 

TIDAL WAVES:
In normal course there is no scope for any tidal waves.  Since our planet is a closed one, it neutralizes all the solar impacts.

However,  moon is rotating near to the Earth, it reflects back electromagnetic waves with certain amount of extra or additional force or pressure.   As Earth is closed one, most of the effect is absorbed and small effect is passed on to the space time of the Earth.  Naturally it creates pressure on the nature. 

During New or full moon day, most of the energy is passed on to the Earth.  It will be having its impact on the gravity of the Earth and in turn on the nature.  Water at the centre absorbs the effect, however at the edges, density of the water is weak and it raises. 

As assumed or thought by Newton, there is an agent working constantly and creating pressure or force on water and it is the “energy”.

Tidal waves are another evidence that one can observe or notice directly.

It is also proved that if the space ship accelerates or decelerates, something is changing.  This is nothing but gravity field only. 

As the space ship accelerates, it lifts the cabin, and in turn cabin lifts the things there in.  The gravity field, at rest or stationary start concentrating at the bottom, resulting in additional potential energy or gravity, which gives additional weight to things at the bottom.

As thought or assumed by Newton, gravity is caused by an agent, energy, which is acting continuously on all the planets. 

Tidal waves proves this, what else proof is need.

Yours
Psreddy
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #186 on: 02/10/2020 16:19:26 »
If we place any mass, anywhere in the universe, in response it will distort or curve the space time.  As per special relativity, space time is empty.  But, as per general relativity, if we place any mass, anywhere in the universe, in turn it will distort or curve the space time around it, which is known as Gravity. 

That is right and proved.  For example, all the planets have curved the space time around them.  But, basic question is, how mass curves the empty space around it.  Well, it is known fact that, space is nothing but empty only. 

Newton has taken space as flat or empty.  As per General relativity space is not empty, mass pulls or pushes the space.   General relativity never gives or tells you how mass pulls or pushes space time.  It is also not clear what is being pulled or pushed.

Well, of course, trampoline analogy clearly gives us an idea, how mass curves the space time.  That is right.  But we cannot compare empty space to fabric.  It is true, fabric is something, but space is nothing.  It is here, total controversy, how mass converts empty space into something.  Unless, there is something, mass cannot distort or curve the space time.  “What exactly is this”, something.   

Whenever we go by trampoline analogy, our solar system comes back into our mind.  It is true that Sun distorted or curved space time around it.  All other planets are only following the paths created by Sun.  So, it is clear that other planets, though they have also curved space time around them, are simply following path created by Sun.

Here, other planets also curves the space time, but it is limited.  For example, our planet, Earth distorted or curved the space time.  Moon is simply following the curved path created by Earth.  In turn both the planets are moving in the path created by Sun. 

As per General relativity, Gravitation isn't determined by mass and position directly, but by the curvature of space, which itself is determined by the full suite of matter and energy throughout the Universe.

When there is matter and energy in the universe, how space time is empty.   

Einstein has taken distortion or curvature by mass itself as Gravity.  It is here that Einstein kept us in a little bit confusion, in fact, chaos.   

It is true and the same is appearing before us, Sun curved the space time up to the end of the solar system.  Can we call this curvature as gravity.  If that is true, General relativity will be bit different one. 

At present, as per our knowledge, gravity is near to the masses only.  There is every need to study gravity as different one.  Curved space time alone is not responsible for gravity.  There is Gravity near to the masses only.  There is every need to explore, “what exactly is this gravity” and how it came into existence. 

Here, whatever Newton assumed is 100% correct.  He assumed that the same medium or agent giving you weight is also keeping the planets in their position.

It is not correct to say, Einstein’s General relativity is wrong.  Here, whatever Einstein said is 100% correct and valid.  However he could not complete General relativity and left it incomplete or unfinished agenda. 

Now, Science developed a lot and we are having lot of information with us and there is every need to explore other possibilities.

Yours
Psreddy
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #187 on: 04/10/2020 18:04:33 »
As per Einstein’s General relativity the presence of Sun disturbs or curves the very fabric of space time.  Here, Earth merely moves inertially in this curves, and it moves in ellipse, since the curves ends as such. 

01  Here, it is true that all the planets curves the space time around them.  There is no doubt about that one and whatever Einstein said is 100% correct.
02  In normal course Sun also curves the space time around it.
03  This is proved through gravitational lensing or bending of light by Gravity.   
04  If the Sun curves or distort up to the end of our solar system, solar light while entering our solar system itself must be bend. 
05  Ok, Sun curved or distorted space time up to the end of our solar system
06  Here, exact shape or type of these paths are not clear.
07  If solar light enters our solar system, it has to follow curved paths, while crossing each planet trajectory. 
08  It is untrue, saying that curved space time of the planet, tells planet how to move.  No planet is having such capacity and is not independent. 
09  It is true that Earth is moving inertially in the curved path created by Sun.
10  So, mass curving the space time is different to creating path.
11  Even Earth also distorted space time around it and created a curved path to Moon.  But it is limited.

I think, there is no explanation or discussion about these curved paths, how they came into existence or created.  We are simply combining these two things and studying them. 

But they are not one and the same.  It is proved through light bending.  Star light while moving near to the Sun was only bent. 

Once again, I would like to reiterate that space time curved by planets is different from creating paths.

Yours
Psreddy
« Last Edit: 10/10/2020 14:01:19 by pasala »
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #188 on: 11/10/2020 18:00:50 »
The key idea of Einstein's theory of general relativity is that gravity is not an ordinary force, but rather a property of spacetime geometry.  Massive bodies such as Earth distort or curves the space time around them.

Inertial mass is a mass parameter giving the inertial resistance to acceleration of the body when responding to all types of force.

Gravitational mass is determined by the strength of the gravitational force experienced by the body when in the gravitational field g.  It helps us to have an idea on the strength of the curved space of the planet.

Well, Earth is a huge mass, naturally it also gives inertial resistance to acceleration.  But what makes or causes it to be in inertia.

Ok, as per Einstein, gravity is nothing but distortion or curvature of space time by the huge masses.  So, Earth also curved or distorted space time around it.  In other words, there is strong gravity around Earth.

So, Curved space time or Gravity is giving equal or opposite resistance to Earth’s acceleration.

In this way gravitational and inertial masses are equated. 

Suppose if the curved space time or gravity weakens, for any reasons, Earth’s inertial resistance increases.  In case, if the curvature is strong, inertial resistance decreases or weakens further. 

Ok, if the curvature or gravity continues to be weaken, further and further, inertial resistance strengthens and planet start moving out. 


But Earth is in inertia or uniform motion.  The reason is that:
01  Earth’s gravity or curved space time only causes it to be at rest or stationary.  In other words, it takes away inertial resistance exerted by Earth. 
02  It is true that Sun is also rotating with lot of speed. 
03  Energy released by Sun is also moving with certain amount of pressure or force.
04  Naturally, it is causing movement of energy in the lanes.
05  Energy moving in the lanes is dragging against curved space time of the planet.

In other words, Newton s Second Law of Motion, also known as the Law of Force and Acceleration, a force upon an object causes it to accelerate according to the formula net force = mass x acceleration. So the acceleration of the object is directly proportional to the force and inversely proportional to the mass.

So, naturally, no force, no acceleration.  But this acceleration again depends on the strength of the curved spacetime and the inertial resistance of the mass.

Yours
Psreddy
 
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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #189 on: 18/10/2020 15:06:18 »
“In Einstein's theory, the presence of the sun disturbs--that is, curves--the very fabric of space and time. The earth then merely moves inertially in this new disturbed spacetime. It follows an inertial trajectory, but that trajectory has been distorted so that it ends up as an ellipse in the space around the sun; or, more precisely, a helical trajectory winding around the sun's worldline in spacetime”.

Einstein has taken us from mass to curved space time. That is right. 

It is true that telescope revolutionized the thinking of scientists.  Sun is at the centre, other planets, including Earth are going round the Sun.  No planet is independent.  It clearly tells us that all the planets are moving in specific line, inertially under the control of Sun.  This can be visualized very easily.

Einstein’s metric tensor, never tells us how the curved space time came into existence and what exactly this curvature is.  It is only a mathematical model.  As per Einstein Space time is not flat, it can be pulled, pushed.  What this fabric consists.  If it is nothing, how it can be pulled or pushed.  Suppose, in case it is a fabric, each planet will be having its own space time curved and hence it need not go round the Sun. 

If Sun curved or distorted space time, it must be limited up to the end of our solar system.  So, naturally space fabric must also end up to that place.  If it is different, how?. 

For that GR takes space time as empty or nothing.  If that is true, what is there improvement to Newton’s  Gravity.

Suppose, you sat in a chair, ten feet away from TV and when you pressed the switch of remote, TV is switched on.  These things, TV and remote are developed by us and hence we knew that light is carrying signals from the remote to the devise.  Here if we argue that signals are not appearing and hence no force is working, it is simply immaterial.

Einstein’s theory is in complete or un-finished agenda. There is every need to take it forward.

Yours
Psreddy

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Offline pasala (OP)

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #190 on: 26/10/2020 15:48:05 »
Well, time is:
“Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, into the future”

Time in physics is operationally defined as "what a clock reads".

That is true, and it is highly useful for our day to day transactions and calculations.

Well, it is surprise to see how Einstein linked Space to time, as a fourth dimension:

01 Isaac Newton saw time as passing at the same rate for all observers.
02  As per Einstein, mass curves the space around them, which is also known as Gravity.  In other words, Gravity is nothing but curved space.
03  As per General relativity, strong gravity or curvature dilates time.
04  It also says that velocity causes time to dilate.
05  Well, of course that is true and both are acceptable and there is no doubt.
06  We have to note an important point that it is gravity or velocity that causes your wrist watch to slow down.
07  But your wrist watch has nothing to do on gravity or curved space time.  It is just an instrument developed by you to count day or night.
08  Time dilation in gravity field is simply an effect of gravity but not a part of space.

Your time, day or night starts with the rotation of the planet.  This rotation again depends on the curved space or gravity. 

If you are on Venus, you have set your clock as such.  It doesn’t mean it is dilated.  If your wrist watch dilates due to velocity, it has no capacity to dilate curved space or gravity.  Gravity or curved space on Earth is almost standard at 9.80 m/s.  If your watch at a particular place, where gravity is strong, dilates, doesn't mean that space time is dilated, it is your watch only.  They are simply effects of gravity.

As of now, we have no exact idea, how our solar system came into existence.  We have no perfect idea about this curvature or gravity.  We have no such capacity to record these events or say.  Our scientific knowledge is insufficient to do that.

Minkowski space is a combination of three dimensional Euclidean space and time into a four-dimensional manifold where the space time interval between any two events is independent of the inertial frame of reference in which they are recorded.

At times Minkowski space, reads as history lesson not a physics.  Einstein, taking time dilation and speed of light as base simply joined time as a fourth dimension to space. 

What Newton thought, time passes at the same rate for all observers is 100% correct and valid.

Yours
Psreddy
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #191 on: 26/10/2020 23:12:48 »
Quote from: pasala on 26/10/2020 15:48:05
What Newton thought, time passes at the same rate for all observers is 100% correct and valid.

That's not what the experimental results say.
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #192 on: 29/10/2020 12:54:10 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 26/10/2020 23:12:48
Quote from: pasala on 26/10/2020 15:48:05
What Newton thought, time passes at the same rate for all observers is 100% correct and valid.

That's not what the experimental results say.
Ok, Kryptid,
I think experimental results mean ...
01  Gravity dilates time
02  Velocity dilate time

Here, for our practical purpose, it is gravity which dilates time.  In a strong gravity field time dilates.  In other words gravity influences time.  Strong gravity causes your wrist watch to dilate. 

I would like to put a straight question, can your wrist watch causes gravity to dilate. 

Time is not what your wrist watch shows, it is day and nights due to the rotation of the Earth.  You have to simply adjust your watch accordingly.  This rotation and revolution again depends on curvature of space time. 

In case, if not, please tell.

Yours
Psreddy
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #193 on: 29/10/2020 16:07:09 »
Quote from: pasala on 29/10/2020 12:54:10
can your wrist watch causes gravity to dilate. 

I can't make sense of this. What does it even mean for gravity to "dilate"?
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #194 on: 29/10/2020 16:19:24 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 29/10/2020 16:07:09
Quote from: pasala on 29/10/2020 12:54:10
can your wrist watch causes gravity to dilate.

I can't make sense of this. What does it even mean for gravity to "dilate"?
Effect on gravity
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #195 on: 29/10/2020 16:20:54 »
A watch has a very small mass, so technically it does have an effect on gravity. It's just extremely small.
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #196 on: 29/10/2020 17:17:15 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 29/10/2020 16:20:54
A watch has a very small mass, so technically it does have an effect on gravity. It's just extremely small.
Oh! Kryptid
It is not mass of the watch that matters.  You are getting back to Newton's.  It is true that strong gravity dilates time.  So it is a lab instrument to test gravity at a particular place. 

Curved space time or gravity is responsible for basic time i.e., day and night.  Our focus must be on how this curved space time or gravity came into existence. 

But Einstein, taking this feature, time dilation, added it as fourth dimension.

It is true, Curved space time or gravity is responsible for day and night.  Any change in your watch is only mechanical, and you have to set time according to day and night. 

Minkowski space time is different one.  It is only simple idea to record events in space he added time as a fourth dimension. For an observer what events he can count or say. 

Einstein, simply added this feature, taking time dilation as an example.  For an observer, i could not understand what events he can count on.  For us, right from the date of knowing gravity, there is no change in it. 

When we have no such capacity to record events,  how far it is correct to include this as a fourth dimension.  Time dilation is only mechanical change not a gravitational change.

Yours
Psreddy

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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #197 on: 29/10/2020 22:07:36 »
Quote from: pasala on 26/10/2020 15:48:05
What Newton thought, time passes at the same rate for all observers is 100% correct and valid.
Quote from: pasala on 29/10/2020 17:17:15
It is true that strong gravity dilates time. 

The two above statements contradict each other.

Quote from: pasala on 29/10/2020 17:17:15
Time dilation is only mechanical change not a gravitational change.

No one ever claimed that it was a gravitational change.
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #198 on: 30/10/2020 14:58:36 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 29/10/2020 22:07:36
Quote from: pasala on 26/10/2020 15:48:05
What Newton thought, time passes at the same rate for all observers is 100% correct and valid.
Quote from: pasala on 29/10/2020 17:17:15
It is true that strong gravity dilates time.

The two above statements contradict each other.

Quote from: pasala on 29/10/2020 17:17:15
Time dilation is only mechanical change not a gravitational change.

No one ever claimed that it was a gravitational change.
Mr Kryptid

For Newton, day begins with sunrise.  But for Einstein day begins with ticking of clock. 

It is the rotation and revolution of the planet that decides time, but not your mechanical clocks which have to be set as such.
If your watch dilates due to gravity or velocity it is your watch problem.  We have to work on how to correct or overcome this problem. 

If your watch dilates in strong gravity field what events you can count.
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Re: What exactly is gravity?
« Reply #199 on: 30/10/2020 16:33:42 »
Quote from: pasala on 30/10/2020 14:58:36
It is the rotation and revolution of the planet that decides time

I'm pretty sure that time would still pass just fine if Earth did not exist.
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