[Zer0]

@pasala
Hello Sir!
🙏

Why is it that You always Specify the Apple falling onto the Earth?
🤔

Why can it Not be the other way around...that the whole damm planet is rising up to catch the falling Apple?

P.S. - 🍏

[Kryptid]

@pasala
Hello Sir!
🙏

Why is it that You always Specify the Apple falling onto the Earth?
🤔

Why can it Not be the other way around...that the whole damm planet is rising up to catch the falling Apple?

P.S. - 🍏

Technically, both accelerate towards each other.

[charles1948]

@pasala
Hello Sir!
🙏

Why is it that You always Specify the Apple falling onto the Earth?
🤔

Why can it Not be the other way around...that the whole damm planet is rising up to catch the falling Apple?

P.S. - 🍏

Technically, both accelerate towards each other.

So, could you say that whenever you walk through your front-door, into your house. the house and door are accelerating towards you?

[Halc]

Why is it that You always Specify the Apple falling onto the Earth?

Why can it Not be the other way around...that the whole damm planet is rising up to catch the falling Apple?

Technically, both accelerate towards each other.

Under any theory, acceleration is absolute, as required by conservation of momentum.

Under Newtonian physics, both accelerate towards each other, but the apple accelerates much more than does Earth such that the momentum change of each of them is equal and opposite.

Under Einstein's physics, the ground exerts a force on the tree accelerating the tree away from the recently detached apple.  The apple doesn't accelerate at all, instead following a geodesic. An accelerometer on the apple would read zero g. The ground immediately under the tree (not the whole Earth) traces a curved path through spacetime due to the compressive net EM force being exerted on it from below. An accelerometer on the ground would measure that one g of proper acceleration.

So, could you say that whenever you walk through your front-door, into your house. the house and door are accelerating towards you?

In this instance, the house accelerating would result in a change of momentum that is not balanced by any equal and opposite change. It violates momentum conservation. No force can account for such acceleration.

[Zer0]

Pasala probably broke the keyboard...coz soo much typin could break up the even the best quality keyboard...unless the Gentleman uses a Cell/Mobil phone...possible side effects are sore & fatty fingers...could be referred to as Elephant Syndrome.
🐘
@pasala U aware of Speech to Text Software?
🤭
Yeaaa! Thank me laterz!

P.S. - @Halc reading your posts make Me feel dizzy & tipsy...juzt lyk Beer!
🍺
(U shud prapz add a " intoxicating substance " Warning at the end of ur posts)
🥴

[pasala (OP)]

Pasala probably broke the keyboard...coz soo much typin could break up the even the best quality keyboard...unless the Gentleman uses a Cell/Mobil phone...possible side effects are sore & fatty fingers...could be referred to as Elephant Syndrome.
🐘
@pasala U aware of Speech to Text Software?
🤭
Yeaaa! Thank me laterz!

P.S. - @Halc reading your posts make Me feel dizzy & tipsy...juzt lyk Beer!
🍺
(U shud prapz add a " intoxicating substance " Warning at the end of ur posts)
🥴

Mr Zero
I could not understand what you are.  I think it is better to stop this type of postings.

[pasala (OP)]

Quote from: Kryptid on Yesterday at 19:39:56
Quote from: Zer0 on Yesterday at 18:46:48
Why is it that You always Specify the Apple falling onto the Earth?

Why can it Not be the other way around...that the whole damm planet is rising up to catch the falling Apple?
Technically, both accelerate towards each other.
Under any theory, acceleration is absolute, as required by conservation of momentum.

Under Newtonian physics, both accelerate towards each other, but the apple accelerates much more than does Earth such that the momentum change of each of them is equal and opposite.

Under Einstein's physics, the ground exerts a force on the tree accelerating the tree away from the recently detached apple.  The apple doesn't accelerate at all, instead following a geodesic. An accelerometer on the apple would read zero g. The ground immediately under the tree (not the whole Earth) traces a curved path through spacetime due to the compressive net EM force being exerted on it from below. An accelerometer on the ground would measure that one g of proper acceleration.

That is right.  Let us imagine that you are in a elevator and it is accelerating forward.  If you let a ball to fall, for the third person, it is not clear whether the bottom of the elevator is raising towards the ball or the ball towards bottom.

01  Elevator is a small area to decide anything.
02  If the elevator is lifted, we have to remember an important point that we are lifting the frame of the elevator only.
03  In turn it lifts the contents there in.
04  It is also proved that unless there is a change, up or down, there is no change within the elevator.
05  When the elevator is moved up, gravity is moving down, pushing you down.
06  When you left or drop the ball, elevator is not at rest or stationary.  It is moving. 
07  Definitely, by the time the ball reaches bottom, bottom of the elevator is already moving up.
08  Isn't it something wrong assumption?.
09  For an apple, Earth is a huge mass. 
10  Free fall is correct  It is the Gravity, taking you down.  If there is no gravity, as assumed by Newton the ball will remain then and there in the tree itself.
11  From the elevator example it is clear that gravity is a field present on the Earth.
12  Huge masses such as Earth curves or distorts space time in which other small masses such as Moon rotates.
13  As per Einstein, apple did not fell on the head of Newton,  Earth moved Newton,  tree, everything to the apple.
14  For Einstein, free fall is weightlessness and no acceleration.  But there is acceleration. 

We have to take Einstein theory further.  From the closed elevator it is clear that, there is weight.  If the space ship is far away from all masses, there is gravity inside as long as it accelerated at 9.81 m/s2.  But we are forgetting that the cabin of the space ship is locked in a strong gravity field.  As long as the space ship accelerate, this field is remaining and this small amount of field is giving same results as that of on Earth.  Ones it reaches destination, slowly this field disappears, in other words it is having an important quality of moving from high to low.
Yours
Psreddy

[Zer0]

@pasala

Hello!
🙏

I take your Advice seriously & shall not Post anymore gibberish into your OP!
👍

Anywhichways, i am hardly able to comprehend what it is that you effortlessly keep goin on n on about.
😵

Just felt a " Speech to Text " software would help You out...considering your posts are such short & brief.
👍

P.S. - Anyways, All the Very Best in your pursuit... whatever that it is you're pursuing.
Not Yours,
0!

[pasala (OP)]

HOW GRAVITY WORKS:
“Matter tells space how to curve, and curved space tells matter how to move”.

That's the basic principle behind Einstein's General Relativity, which linked, for the first time, the phenomenon of gravity with that of spacetime and relativity.

Place a mass down anywhere in the Universe, and the space around it will be curved in response.

No doubt, it is the outstanding and wonderful idea of Einstein. 

Event 1:
01   Ok, suppose scientists have developed a new satellite to be launched into the space.
02   Let us take its weight as 10 kgs.  As usual it also curved or distorted space time around it.

Event 2:
01   Now scientists have launched the satellite into the space.
02   Here, once again it curves the space time around it.
03   But there is no weight, in other words it is in weightlessness condition.
04   We are talking about Gravity or weight, whether it is in inertia or not.

Same mass, satellite, gravity is giving weight on Earth and weightlessness in space.  Here on Earth, curved space time is telling satellite to move towards the Earth and in space, same curved space is telling satellite to go round the Earth.

Why this difference?.  It Is true that, at both the places the satellite curved the space time around it.

But there is something influencing this curved space of the satellite.  It appears that Einstein new this, but he could not.

Ok, let us take that, on a full moon day, moon is reflecting back light received from Sun.  It is not producing any energy,  simply reflecting back additional energy only. 

01   It is true that Moon curves the space time around it.
02   Energy coming from the Sun is charging the gravity field of Moon.
03   Additional energy is moving into the space time of the Earth and charging the curved space.
04    Suppose, all the planets are at rest, energy moves in straight line.
05   Now, suppose, for any reason, curved or distorted space of Sun started moving.
06   Definitely, it will be having its impact on Earth and Moon.
07   Now, energy moving in straight, start bending. 
08   Well, it is true that space time of Moon is curved or distorted.
09   Now energy coming from Sun, in a sloped manner, enters the curved space of Moon.  It start moving along with curved space in geodesics.
10   In turn, this curved space tells mass how to move.
11   Since moon start rotating surplus energy coming from Moon moves in sloped manner.
12   In turn it charges the gravity field of Earth. 
13   This charge is not straight but in a sloped manner. 
14   Whether it is straight or sloped, water will not move unless there is a movement. 

It clearly tells us that there is a medium, energy and it is causing or aiding mass to curve the space time and to rotate.

What else proof is needed.

Ok, scientists have developed a satellite, weighing 10 kgs.  As per General relativity every mass curves the space time and hence satellite is no exception.
 
01   Satellite also curves or distorts space time around it.
02   As assumed by general relativity, gravity is a “spatial flow”.
03   So, there is a medium or energy is flowing towards the centre of the Earth.
04   While flowing, as happened in the case of Moon, it start moving along the curved space of the satellite.
05    In turn it drags or forces, which is known as weight, towards the ground.

In the space:
01   Here also, no doubt satellite curves or distort the space time around it.
02   Energy flowing in the space, moves along with the curved space.
03   Satellite start moving along with spatial flow.
04   If the satellite resist, it is weight.  But it is not as it is on Earth, due to several reasons.

In a vacuum chamber:
01   All the masses weigh equally.
02   They also fall at the same rate.
03   Gravity or weight is directly proportional to curved space or distorted space.  This is the reason, Newtons inverse square law appears to be true at several places.
04   In a vacuum chamber all the masses fails to curve the space around them.
05   In the absence of curved space, influence of gravity is far limited or nothing and hence all the masses fall to the ground at the same rate.

Yours
Psreddy

[pasala (OP)]

Even now, gravity is a mysterious one.  On Earth it is giving weight, where as in space, it is giving weightlessness and free fall. 

Basic difference is, why gravity is behaving differently on Earth and in space, though same medium or field. 

As per Einstein’s thought experiment it is clear that there is gravity inside the closed elevator and it is giving same weight as that of on Earth.  If the elevator is moved up, Einstein did not notice one important point that we are lifting the frame only and in turn it drags the contents therein, gravity start pooling or concentrating at the bottom.

Ok, suppose if you accelerate in a car, we have to remember that engine is moving the frame and in turn frame drags the contents therein including gravity field.  When the car accelerates forward, gravity that is spread equally, start collecting at the end, pushing you backward.  Here, we can notice two important qualities of gravity, collecting at the end shows it’s heavier.  If the car attains velocity, it once again neutralizes, so another quality of moving from high to low.

Ok, let us revisit what Galileo Galilei wrote about the relative motion of objects, even before Newton had his work.

“If you are in a closed room on a ship sailing at a constant speed and the ride is perfectly smooth, objects behave as they would on land. There’s no physical experiment you could conduct to tell whether you’re moving or stationary (assuming you’re not peeking out of a porthole). This is the core idea behind relativity, and is the same reason why we don’t feel our planet’s movement around the sun, or our solar system’s movement through the galaxy”.

Galileo’s equivalence principle is extra-ordinary:
01   If you are in a closed room of a ship, sailing at a constant speed and if ride is perfectly smooth, objects behave as if on land. 
02   One can not differentiate, moving or stationary.
03   This is the reason, why we don’t feel our planet’s movement around the Sun or solar system’s movement through the galaxy.

Galileo’s equivalence is between:
“Closed room”  to “Earth”. 

“If you are in a closed room and if sailing is smooth, objects behave as if on land”.

Galileo says, in a closed room, if the sailing is smooth, he could not differentiate, whether he is in the room of a ship or on Earth.

By this we can draw conclusion that Earth is a closed one, as that of a room, what else proof is needed. 

Since Earth is a closed one it is paving way for pooling or concentration of Gravity field.  It is not an instant one.
01   Closed elevator clearly tells us that this field is heavier and it also moves from high to low. 
02   Since it is heavier, it appears that it is moving towards Earth, we are getting the feeling that it is a spatial flow.
03   Suppose let us take that you are in a water pond, on the surface, you will get the feeling of weightlessness.  As you go deeper and deeper, one will get the feeling of weight.
04   Ok, suppose there is a water canal and water is flowing in one way.  If you start your journey along with water movement, it takes you down effortlessly.  If you try to move in opposite direction, you have to put total energy.
05   Let us imagine that you are in the middle of water pond, if you don’t put any effort water takes you down, it is free fall.
06   In case if you want to go to surface, definitely you have to use energy, to overcome water resistance, it is gravity.
07   If you go deep in the pond, water density increases, similarly gravity field density is also increasing on Earth’s surface.
08   We are taking this density as Gravity. 
09   This density is higher on Earth’s surface when compared to gravity field in the outer surface.
10   As the density increases, its effect on the objects also increases.
11   Apple is coming down to the Earth, it is in free fall.  At the same time, Gravity is pushing the apple.  So, both the theories, Newton and Einstein are correct.
12   In the outer space, as that of water canal, there is a flow of medium or gravity.  Planets are not in free fall by themselves.  If you are in a water canal, without putting any effort water takes you down. 
13   Similarly there is a flow of energy in the outer space.  As assumed by Einstein, if you place any mass in the space it will curve the space around it. 
14   Curvature or distortion of space is only feature of mass.  It only gives weightlessness. 
15   It is only due to flow of energy in the lanes, planets are in free fall or moving or going round the Sun.
16   Rotation  of planets clearly indicates, how and where the medium or gravity is flowing or moving.

Einstein’s equivalence is between:
“Closed room of a ship” to “Closed room of a space ship”.
01   Einstein’s idea is that, there is also gravity in the “room of a space ship”, which is far away from mass.
02   His idea is that, thrust of the engine of space ship has created or developed gravity field inside the room of the space ship. Gravity due to thrust of the engine and the gravity field on Earth are one and  the same. 

But, Einstein forgot one important point. The cabin of the space ship, as that of elevator, is locked here on Earth, in the strong gravity field.  For that there is no proof,   thrust of engine increasing or decreasing gravity.  Since the cabin is closed here on Earth, a part of the gravity is also locked.  It is surprise to see, gravity field even in small area such as cabin, giving same weight.

Here, Einstein’s equivalence is proper and valid though idea is wrong.

Whereas the Galileo’s equivalence is different, it is in between closed room of a ship to Earth.  So, indirectly he wants to convey the message that Earth is a closed one. 

Saying that Earth is not closed but open is easy.   Here, we have to remember one important point that it is paving way for gravity field on Earth.  If Earth’s doors and windows are strong, strong gravity, if weak, weak gravity. 

Gravity on Earth is behaving like water in a pond.  There is strong gravity field on this Earth.  As assumed by Einstein, if a person dives from top of the building, he is a co-mover along with gravity.  It is true that he is in free fall.  But without gravity or in the absence of gravity field on Earth, as assumed by Newton, he will remain at the top itself.  If you dives into water pond, one need not put any effort, it takes you down.

Well, water in the pond or medium is appearing to us, but the gravity field is not appearing or invisible to our naked eye.  But its effects clearly tells us that it is a field present on the Earth.

Since space of the Earth is closed, this field is behaving like water in the pond.  In case if it is not closed, things will be different, the medium flowing in the space will touch earth and we will feel its effects directly.  There is no scope for rotation except it will go round the Sun, revolution.

Galileo’s equivalence clearly tells us that Earth is having doors and windows and it is paving way for Gravity field.  Since this field is stable it is behaving like water in the pond. 

Now science developed a lot and we have to explore different possibilities how Earth got this doors and windows or closed from all sides. 

Yours
Psreddy

[pasala (OP)]

CURVED SPACE TIME:
Matter tells space how to curve, and curved space tells matter how to move. That's the basic principle behind Einstein's General Relativity, which linked, for the first time, the phenomenon of gravity with that of spacetime and relativity. Place a mass down anywhere in the Universe, and the space around it will curve in response.

In general relativity, spacetime is not 'flat' but is curved by the presence of massive bodies.
 
Ok, let us study it with simple analogy, considering space-time as a rubber sheet that can be deformed:

01   The presence of a massive body curves space-time, as if a bowling ball were placed on the rubber sheet to create a cuplike depression.
02   If a marble is placed near the depression it will roll down the slope toward the bowling ball as if pulled by a force. It will go around the bowling ball, in a path distorted or created by bowling ball.

That is right:
01   It is true that Earth is a huge mass and it curved or distorted space time.
02   Well, of course, it is not clear, place or area up to which it curved the space time.
03   For that it is a mathematical model, never tells us what exactly this curved space time is.
04   Suppose, If Earth curved or distorted space time up to Moon, light is not bending, in the space in between.  So, definitely, there is no curvature at all.
05   For that, we are taking curved space time for Gravity.  Gravity is present near to the masses only.
06   Space in between Earth and Moon is 2d only.

It is true that:
01   Light bending clearly tells us that, Sun curved the space time near to it only.
02   Whereas it created paths or distorted space time up to the end of solar system. 
03   In fact Earth also curved space time near to it only.
04   But it distorted or created path up to wide area.

Unless we separate these two things:
01   Space time curved by a Mass and
02   Curved paths created by a Mass

No progress can be achieved.

Yours
Psreddy

[Kryptid]

Gravity is present near to the masses only.

Nope. Gravity has an infinite range.

[Origin]

Space in between Earth and Moon is 2d only.

What are you talking about?

[evan_au]

Ok, let us study it with simple analogy, considering space-time as a rubber sheet that can be deformed: ....
06   Space in between Earth and Moon is 2d only.

It's good that you realize that a rubber sheet is a simple analogy for gravity.
- But don't use that simple analogy to make entirely wrong deductions about real gravity.

In our spacetime (3D space + time), gravity follows an inverse-square law, which implies that gravity has an infinite range.
- I imagine that in a hypothetical 2D space, the strength of gravity would have an inverse relation with distance (?). This also implies an infinite range (unless you imagine this 2D space to be a finite rubber sheet...).

[pasala (OP)]

Ok, let us study it with simple analogy, considering space-time as a rubber sheet that can be deformed: ....
06   Space in between Earth and Moon is 2d only.

- But don't use that simple analogy to make entirely wrong deductions about real gravity.

In our spacetime (3D space + time), gravity follows an inverse-square law, which implies that gravity has an infinite range.
- I imagine that in a hypothetical 2D space, the strength of gravity would have an inverse relation with distance (?). This also implies an infinite range (unless you imagine this 2D space to be a finite rubber sheet...).

Thank you,

Well, of course,  not that gravity having infinite range but it is inverse square law.  I think there is no limit or boundary to inverse square law.

Basic question is how a mass, half universe away attract another mass. 

Please look at the side heading "curved space time" and the discussion is about, two things, curved space time and curved paths.  Basically I could not get much or any information about curved paths.  It appears that both are inter-linked. 

Please share, if you have, about curved paths. 

Sir,  I knew or every body knows that it is analogy only.

For that, from Einstein's maths it is not clear, how this curved space time came into existence and what exactly it consists of.  But, mostly it moves around stress, energy and momentum.  I could not found, how this stress, energy, momentum contribute to this curved space time.

In my view, gravity has finite range only, which i will discuss it latter. 

Science developed a lot.  We have to read all the theories loudly, at the same time there is every need to analyse them.  At present we are of the opinion that all the planets are in "inertia", following exact path.  Here also inverse square law has got exact answer.  If that is true, there is no need to go to Einstein theories.  Please see that even Einstein theories are incomplete.

In my opinion, gravity field on earth is like water in the pond with exact boundaries and is exerting pressure on all objects.  Similarly, there is a gravity field in the space, without boundary but it is flowing in exact path like water in canal and it is causing "inertia".   

Yours
Psreddy

[Kryptid]

In my opinion, gravity field on earth is like water in the pond with exact boundaries

Then your opinion goes against the existing evidence.

[jeffreyH]

In my opinion, gravity field on earth is like water in the pond with exact boundaries

Then your opinion goes against the existing evidence.

I think Pasala is confusing the gravitational field with a potato field.

[pasala (OP)]

In my opinion, gravity field on earth is like water in the pond with exact boundaries

Then your opinion goes against the existing evidence.

It's ok.  Whatever i had said is an extension to Galileo's equivalence principle.  "If you are in a closed room of a ship, sailing smoothly, one cannot distinguish whether he is in a closed room of a ship or on Earth".

Mr. Kryptid, please tells me what does it mean.  It is direct comparison in between:
01  Closed room of a ship, sailing smoothly to
02  Earth.
It clearly tells us that, Earth is like a closed room of a ship.  Since Earth is a closed one, it paved the way for formation of Gravity field on Earth and this field is working like water in a pond.  Here, Einstein's equivalence is different one.

Ok, please tells me, how it differs with existing evidence. 

Yours
Psreddy

[Origin]

In my opinion, gravity field on earth is like water in the pond with exact boundaries and is exerting pressure on all objects.

Where are these boundries?  Is the boundary a sharp line or does the gravity fade out over some distance?  What do you mean gravity exerts pressure?

Similarly, there is a gravity field in the space, without boundary

The gravity in space is different than gravity on a planet?  Where does "space gravity" come from?  Why is "space gravity" unbounded but "mass gravity" is bounded?

it is flowing in exact path like water in canal and it is causing "inertia".

How does gravity flow?  How can "space gravity" flow in an exact path and also be unbounded?  Does the "earth gravity" cause inertia just like "space gravity".  Inertia is a property of a mass to resist a change in velocity, how does gravity cause inertia?

[pasala (OP)]

In my opinion, gravity field on earth is like water in the pond with exact boundaries and is exerting pressure on all objects.

Where are these boundries?  Is the boundary a sharp line or does the gravity fade out over some distance?  What do you mean gravity exerts pressure?

Similarly, there is a gravity field in the space, without boundary

The gravity in space is different than gravity on a planet?  Where does "space gravity" come from?  Why is "space gravity" unbounded but "mass gravity" is bounded?

it is flowing in exact path like water in canal and it is causing "inertia".

How does gravity flow?  How can "space gravity" flow in an exact path and also be unbounded?  Does the "earth gravity" cause inertia just like "space gravity".  Inertia is a property of a mass to resist a change in velocity, how does gravity cause inertia?

Ok, origin, have you read my reply dated 14/04/2021.  If not please go through it.  When it is "inertia", it is not only resistance but also uniform motion. 

What I am saying is that, Einstein's equivalence principle is  incorrect.  The cabin of the  space ship is locked here on Earth, where there is strong Gravity.  Even after locking the cabin, Mr. X's weight continues to be 75 kgs only.  If it is a spatial flow, how the small field within a cabin is giving same weight.  As the Space ship accelerates forward, Gravity in the outside field goes on decreasing, but there is no change in the weight of Mr.X.  For that there is no proof, thrust of the engine increasing or decreasing or influencing gravity field.  When the space ship is in acceleration or attains velocity, there is no change in gravity field in the cabin.

Ones the space ship reaches destination, space time of the cabin start interacting with the outside space time and adjusts according to outside space.  It clearly tells us that Gravity can be packed within small area such as cabin and moved.

Ok, origin, if you are in a car, accelerating forward, gravity pushes you backward.  Here, we have to remember one important point that, your car engine is pulling your car frame only and this frame in turn, moves you and the gravity field within your car.  As the frame pushes gravity field, it start concentrating at the end, pushing you backward.  As the car attains velocity it once again neutralizes.

What else proof is needed.  These things shows that gravity is a field present on the Earth.

In the case of equivalence principle also, Einstein's idea is that, why there is gravity in the cabin of the space ship which is in deep space far away from mass.  Most of the concentration of Einstein is on equating, cabin of the space ship to Earth.  But he did not talk about Galileo's equivalence.  What Einstein says, there is also equivalence in the cabin of the  space ship.

Galileo's equivalence is different.  What Galileo says, in a closed room, if the sailing is smooth, it is giving the feeling of on Earth.  It is in between, closed room to Earth.  This is the reason, every body, including top scientists new that we are not feeling our journey in our solar system and also in the universe. 

Galileo's equivalence clearly tells us that our earth is like a closed room.  In my view, since Earth is a closed one it is paving way for gravity field.  I had compared this gravity field with water in a pond.  If you are on the surface of water, it is weightlessness.  As you move down, it is free fall.  At the bottom, as the density increases, it is weight.  It is simple comparison only.

I had put forth mine idea, that may be correct or not to be decided through testing.

Please give valuable advices.

Yours
Psreddy