[Bored chemist]

Moses is impressed in history

Really?
Can you show me a contemporary independent reference to show that he even existed?

I had a vision of Moses.

Your hallucinations don't constitute evidence.
Have you spoken to your doctor about them?

[Europan Ocean]

Moses is impressed in history

Really?
Can you show me a contemporary independent reference to show that he even existed?

I had a vision of Moses.

Your hallucinations don't constitute evidence.
Have you spoken to your doctor about them?

I have not studied archaeology to site names of hand, but at first I think of Simcha Jacobovici and I doubt the Hebrew University would say he was not real. From what I have heard the debate against Moses and the Exodus is not the greater one.

Britain's legal system was influenced by Moses over the centuries, so was this like being influenced by Gandalph?

Moses is so ancient that we don't have history of him like WW1. History was only really recorded from the ninth century BC, in regards to King David. Moses is somewhat legendary from a non faith, scientific view. Wikipedia mentions him, I found a few articles. I will have to read them later. Doing some exams.

The vision I had was an operating table vision just coming out of, Gamazel anesthetic. Pardon my spelling. Doctors would mostly ignore these things.

[Europan Ocean]

I think without bias that the Hebrews somehow left Egypt and invaded Israel. It should be in the DNA of the fully Hebrew Jews.

It is hard to believe in the pillar of fire, the mighty victories, the superiority of Hebrew soldiers despite the Egyptian trained Moses.

I think that is why it is considered a legend by science minded historians. Then there is also the bias against Jews. And the worry of fights starting over Israel. Some do not want to acknowledge their right to live there.

[Bored chemist]

Doctors would mostly ignore these things.

It is often wise to take your doctor's advice.

Britain's legal system was influenced by Moses over the centuries,

Via time travel?
Moses was said to have lived long before the Romans came to these islands (bringing their legal system with them).
At the time, there was no formal legal system in Britain.

So, even if Moses ever lived he was a long time dead before anyone could influence the british legal system.

It is hard to believe in the pillar of fire, the mighty victories,

I don't...


"The modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is a mythical figure"
from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Historicity

[Bored chemist]

The vision I had was an operating table vision just coming out of, Gamazel anesthetic.

So, your response to my reminder that hallucinations are not evidence is to say that it was a drug induced hallucination.


Do you think that makes it better?

[Europan Ocean]

Doctors would mostly ignore these things.

It is often wise to take your doctor's advice.

Britain's legal system was influenced by Moses over the centuries,

Via time travel?
Moses was said to have lived long before the Romans came to these islands (bringing their legal system with them).
At the time, there was no formal legal system in Britain.

So, even if Moses ever lived he was a long time dead before anyone could influence the british legal system.

It is hard to believe in the pillar of fire, the mighty victories,

I don't...


"The modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is a mythical figure"
from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Historicity

Moses in wikipedia is said to possible have existed as more than a mythical figure. It elaborates and speculates. And though it does not mention English law, it does mention that of the old USA at foundational times. And mentions Swedish historian Hugo Valentin as considering Moses the first to establish the rights of man.

Where can I find Moses influence on Britain and England in particular? He may have influenced Rome, not by time travel but through the debates of Jews living in Greece and Rome through the hundreds of years before and after Christ.

Visions on operating tables that do not come from hallucinogens, such as NDEs and OBEs are treated differently to hallucinations. But not all doctors take an interest. That is why I mentioned Gamazel as I think it is called, and not Ketamine, since the latter induces hallucinations. Gamazel causes memory loss of the event.

[Bored chemist]

Do you understand that a man who did not exist can not have influenced anything?

People who thought he existed may well have had an influence, but that is not evidence that he was actually real.

[Europan Ocean]

Do you understand that a man who did not exist can not have influenced anything?

People who thought he existed may well have had an influence, but that is not evidence that he was actually real.

I am sure I cannot persuade you to change your mind, and you cannot change mine. We are set in past decisions. For me, I am sure the Bible is evidence he existed, and that it is not a book of legends. Scientists here seem to believe God exists only one in five, from a past poll. You would be an atheist then. Others but which are scholars with biases I mentioned  would be the Hebrew University and another article I found was a Jew who graduated from Harvard and disagrees with the trends in amongst those scholars.

Not only the Romans but the Jews have offered us things in civilization and obviously Moses was the authority to them. They suffered a lot for that, to me that gives credence to his being real and not a fanciful idea. Circumcision, and keeping a just culture separate from pagans, the strictness and the defence of Israel was for a valid, non fanciful reason. God's presence existed and persisted throughout the composition of the whole Bible, and is still active today in pastors and writers and evangelists. You can find it if you look even locally. But you cannot have proof, God doesn't offer it. Christ is the choice of millions of Chinese in China and the same in Africa, despite persecution, not just for Bible ideas, but because of the experience of God's presence and power.

The development of the character of the Christ over hundreds of years and that someone fulfilled all those prophecies takes a consistency and most extraordinary luck if it were by chance. It seems behind the men and women, there was one author in common.

[Bored chemist]

You say " obviously Moses was the authority"
Why can't you understand that a myth of Moses would do that just as well as a real one?
It can't be "obvious" because it isn't true.
It can't be true because Moses isn't real.

I am sure I cannot persuade you to change your mind, and you cannot change mine.

I will change my mind if you provide evidence. You refuse to do so.
So the real question is "What are you doing on a science web page?"
You clearly are not interested in science.

[Zer0]

OP - Re: Can science prove God exists?

Should it?

What exactly happens when Science debunks & demolishes all of Faith in the Almighty?
Aren't some folks on our planet so pauperised that all that they have or own to face the hardships of tomorrow is Hope & Faith.

I was pretty disappointed knowing the toothfairy ain't real...do not even get me started on Santa!
Is it fun to make kids cry in order to make em grow up?
Shouldn't growing old be a compulsion as usual, but growing up be kept always optional.


& Honestly, does Science not have any other more important impending crises to provide solutions for...
What good are such debates on & whether if GOD exists or not, other than they being extreme waste of time?

Why do believers belittle their own God by trying to seek proof of existence thru Science...
Believe what you may, keep your Faith..
Just Please remember, whatever your commandments are, keep em to yourself locked up inside of your own head.
✌

[Bored chemist]

Is it fun to make kids cry in order to make em grow up?

If people didn't tell lies about Sant and the Tooth fairy, they would save the kids from the tears when they find out
(1) they aren't real and
(2) they can't trust their parents.

[Harryobr]

Oh my God. Why is life the only singularity ever detected?  Life is NOT natural.

[Hayseed]

Life is the only single thing we have ever seen.  We see multiples of objects and entities thru out the universe.  But life is only here.

That tells me that life is not natural.   Life is more than mass and energy and their nature.   Life configures their nature, then replicates itself.  Allowing further configuration of nature.

Why?  How?  When?   Do you believe science can find the answers?   What about death?  We know that death is not necessary for to multiply life, so why is there death?

It's so cruel.  Why does life tease us.   Can science find out?

[hamdani yusuf]

Why?  How?  When?   Do you believe science can find the answers?   What about death?  We know that death is not necessary for to multiply life, so why is there death?

I think that death is/was necessary to remind us that our current system is not perfect (yet), hence need to change and restart to make progress. It's necessary due to finite available resources. This should be obvious if we learned about genetic algorithm.

[Europan Ocean]

You say " obviously Moses was the authority"
Why can't you understand that a myth of Moses would do that just as well as a real one?
It can't be "obvious" because it isn't true.
It can't be true because Moses isn't real.

I am sure I cannot persuade you to change your mind, and you cannot change mine.

I will change my mind if you provide evidence. You refuse to do so.
So the real question is "What are you doing on a science web page?"
You clearly are not interested in science.

Moses' works of literature and military tactics were intellectual and from an educated man, poetry, mighty victories. He left a succession, and records of events that many modern people won't believe because of the supernatural content. He lived so long ago, in primitive times that records of history were not well done as later with King David and later still with the 5th century bc Greeks.

I tend to take Exodus as a real account.

If I were to look for evidence in the natural, it would be examples Hebrews DNA testing. Are they a distinct race?

What is the motive for a myth or a lie? Advantage? What advantage was there? Inside practicing justice was good, but outside it meant continuous struggles and conflict with demon worshipping pagans. It went on for centuries. They had to record of their ancestries. They could not simply mix with the pagans. From Moses they had a sense of justice balanced with mercy that worked and influences us today.

People may just believe that ancient Pharaoh records are true, but Moses they don't because the records are so old and scant for science. And some people refuse to believe in miracles.

Having experienced what we call Jesus' sacred blood as a man, I am persuaded to believe there was the line of Judah and Moses' sacrifice system...

So I suppose to post enlightenment scientists Moses is not an authority in the same way he once was anymore.

[Europan Ocean]

From the OP and behind what I have typed, is my admiration and respect for American open mindedness.

Many scientists and from a poll here, 4 out of 5 are non theists, are like vacuum sealed or tort. Beyond what can be seen or tested, they hold there is nothing, sometimes even it is as a faith.

If you could picture their observations, in plastic wrap, it would hold shape. No pockets of air.

I prefer open mindedness.

If we look at the size of our solar system the Milky Way, Andromeda, and consider how many galaxies there are, it is magnificently huge. And some scientists think it it came from nothing, although nothing had a powerful nature, to spontaneously produce a vast amount of matter and anti-matter. In the end they think the universe is self existent.

In addition to the universe vast nature, intelligent life in the universe like human beings, dolphins and elephants and sexual reproduction and beauty and the mind, are part of the universe. It does not take a great open mind to choose to consider another factor was self existent.

Christians believe God is self existent. It takes the same amount of faith, either way. God with his order and detail, or the universe with it's order, detail and life. I am open minded to think God is.

And I am open minded to think Moses and Bible accounts are real.

[Bored chemist]

If I were to look for evidence in the natural, it would be examples Hebrews DNA testing. Are they a distinct race?

Race isn't a well defined concept in science.

I tend to take Exodus as a real account.

That's your opinion; had you somehow mistaken it for evidence?

It takes the same amount of faith, either way.

Not really.
There is actual evidence for the big bang and (whether you like this  or not) there is none for God.
Also, you seem to brush aside the fact that, no matter how complex (and thus improbable) the universe is, God must be more complex and- by the same argument- more improbable.

And I am open minded to think Moses and Bible accounts are real.

You are not open minded at all.
You refuse to consider the evidence which shows that they are substantially made up.
We know who rewrote them, where and when.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

[Europan Ocean]

There is actual evidence for the big bang and (whether you like this  or not) there is none for God.
Also, you seem to brush aside the fact that, no matter how complex (and thus improbable) the universe is, God must be more complex and- by the same argument- more improbable.

And I am open minded to think Moses and Bible accounts are real.

You are not open minded at all.
You refuse to consider the evidence which shows that they are substantially made up.
We know who rewrote them, where and when.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The matter of probability does not apply to some matters. Probability cannot apply to the question of God's existence. Probability is for maths and to some extent physics. It is not transcendent. It is a subject within the universe, to things in the universe. A parallel universe could be quite different and without logic, from the same God.
 
The Hebrews separate from the Christian councils have their own school.

https://www.coursera.org/huji

[Bored chemist]

https://www.coursera.org/huji

"The Hebrew University was founded in 1918 "
Come on...

[Europan Ocean]

https://www.coursera.org/huji

"The Hebrew University was founded in 1918 "
Come on...

The Hebrews had always maintained their language in Israel. Their own TANACH. The Jews mixed in Europe always had their own distinct from Trinitarian school of thought, theology and have their own contributions to archaeology.