[Bored chemist]

STDs keep people a little less promiscuous.

So, you don't know what congenital means...

. It is reliable and predictable.

If that was true, you could prove it.

[Kryptid]

If the spirits are willing to predict the outcome of elections, that actually could be used to statistically determine its accuracy. Predict the outcomes of many elections over time then tally up the accuracy of the results. I doesn't have to just be presidents.

[CliveG]

STDs keep people a little less promiscuous.

So, you don't know what congenital means...

. It is reliable and predictable.

If that was true, you could prove it.

Congenital. Once more you nit-pick and make assumptions. But since God is guiding you to make comments that I can use to give more advice I will thank you.

There are consequences to actions and consequences to sin. STDs are one consequence of promiscuity and sometimes the consequence can affect many people. The Bible has a collection of topics that give people pause for thought and give advice on living a good life. The sins of the fathers is one consequence.

This advice is quite relevant in today's times. The sin of greed of businessmen and politicians is having consequences that are seriously affecting the next generations. Over-population and global warming. And Greta Thunberg is quite right that it is her generation that will bear the immediate brunt.

The sins of unchecked capitalism and the lack of concern for one's fellow man is a key driver of the global policies. In my first 12 years in the USA I used to be an ardent Republican capitalist with little sympathy for the poor and the lower classes. Perhaps that is why I have to suffer so much loss and pain in my old age. I am now quite committed to social justice and humankind must adapt or die. The rise of Bernie is a symptom.

The whole point of my message (from God, I claim) is that he will allow Satan to spread mutated viruses to kill off much of the population to correct the situation. And allow cell-phone microwaves to lessen immune systems. No-one is safe, not even the faithful because the laws of nature/physics are allowed to take their course. Some might be favored by God and be spared.

What God wants is for humankind to move away from naked self-centered business as usual to a more spiritual outlook where the teachings of Jesus are truly a model to aspire to. Remember how Christianity got its start. The plagues in Roman Empire, where Christians cared for others irrespective of faith or ethnicity, were a major booster. The teachings of Buddha are also good ones. Tao and Confucianism have good rules but are not so spiritual. Animism teaches us the closeness of spirits.  Hinduism has some key truths such as reincarnation and the Braham (the Ultimate Intelligence) but it is so complicated and verbose.

The consequence of the Black Plague equally balanced the scales where the Church and rich landowners were excessively powerful and were abusing the population. The wipe-out of the Danish royalty set the stage for democracy in that country. So this modern die-off will adjust the "sins" of materialism and narcissism.

I am being allowed to see and learn how spirit works in order to tell people that not only does God exist but spirit is there to help fight evil and to help humankind in its quest for self-improvement. If we die-out completely that will defeat the objective - except that the Ultimate Intelligence may just start another Game and tweak the system slightly to avoid the inevitable. Or there may be multiple Games (parallel universes) where humankind succeeds. We live in interesting times.

[CliveG]

(snip).

. It is reliable and predictable.

If that was true, you could prove it.

To me. it is a proof, yes. One of many many examples.To you. it is an anecdote that you have to take on faith - an informed decision that I am not out for money or power, and am genuine.

I have been trying to remain anonymous but it seems I will not be allowed to do that for much longer. Events are pushing me to a public stance in a number of areas.

[CliveG]

If the spirits are willing to predict the outcome of elections, that actually could be used to statistically determine its accuracy. Predict the outcomes of many elections over time then tally up the accuracy of the results. I doesn't have to just be presidents.

At least you are getting the concept of statistical proof. One has to ask what interest the spirits (overseen by God) have of assisting in making predictions that are correct. The answer is "They do not". Most of the high profile clairvoyants have an interest in money and fame and this makes the spirits disinclined to give correct advice. No doubt Satan will also be affecting results to cause confusion.

Choose the person and their background and motivation carefully. I take the position that if God did actually give me a message, and if God exists he has a plan and the message may get some public attention. If God does not exist, and I did not get a message then the opposite will happen and I will have to die (for real) to find out what lie beyond. Although I have doubts about everything, and will admit to those doubts, I have never wavered from the objective of getting the message there for people so that changes can happen in religion and in society.

I would happily subject myself to being quizzed and tested by a panel of experts in law, religion and science. They will not be able to make definitive judgements that I am doing anything but telling the truth. And if my claims are true then God and spirit exist.

Joan of Arc was able to withstand the fake trial she was subjected to. Her tormentor were clearly motivate by Satan and God allowed her to be put to death by fire. We all die, some more painfully than others. I endure my pain and suffering as long as I have a purpose and am not a burden.

One question is why was I allowed to do a public test on a website and get it right? The answer is that I do need some public credibility to my claims, otherwise they are simply personal anecdotes that could be the wild imaginings of a random person.

[CliveG]

On Saturday I went to a hydro to recover somewhat. I find that when I do, I get "information" on topics relating to the Ultimate Intelligence and Reality.

I met a man who was a Christian Scientist. I had not looked at this religion because I considered it a branch of Christianity. Yes it is, but is has some interesting concepts. Here is the key one.

The scientific statement of being
“ There is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter. All is infinite Mind and its infinite manifestation, for God is All-in-all. Spirit is immortal Truth; matter is mortal error. Spirit is the real and eternal; matter is the unreal and temporal. Spirit is God, and man is His image and likeness. Therefore man is not material; he is spiritual. ”
Mary Baker Eddy,

This is derived from:
"God is All-in all."
"God is good."
"God is Mind, and God is infinite; hence all is Mind."
The conclusions are that humans  are all perfect spiritual ideas of the one divine Mind, and manifest Spirit, not a material body.

This logic starts with the assumption that God exists, and Mary's experience was proof to her that He/She (God to her was both male and female) existed. I think that God and Souls are neither make nor female and that souls can reincarnate as either.

I said before that many of my concepts were already truths in various religions - and this one that does not derive from Brahman of the Hindu religion. But does say we are illusions in the Mind of an Infinite Intelligence. Mary Eddy did not see God and the Infinite as separate as I do. She dealt with evil as "errors" in Man's perceptions. Here she claims that prayer can heal and do miracles. She rejects the concept of Jesus as God.

Interestingly she rejected spiritualism. So I Googled this and found another concept that is in agreement with my experience and that is this in Wiki:

Swedenborg, who claimed to communicate with spirits while awake, described the structure of the spirit world. Two features of his view particularly resonated with the early Spiritualists: first, that there is not a single Hell and a single Heaven, but rather a series of higher and lower heavens and hells; second, that spirits are intermediates between God and humans, so that the divine sometimes uses them as a means of communication.

The article mentioned Spiritism. Spiritism (Wiki) believes that spirits reincarnate.

Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world. Spiritism is an evolution-affirming religion.

My experience is that spirits are temporary intermediates to souls and that souls are not necessarily immortal and can be terminated. Also that there are good and evil souls/spirits.

[CliveG]

At the hydro I casually looked at a section of the books they had. One caught my eye. "Pandemics Progress" by Arno Karlen ISBN 0 575 400129. Written in 1996 he talks about the coming impact of global warming and warns that this and over-population will make a die-off of populations almost inevitable.

What he shows is that many pathogens become activated into attacking both animals and humans when the balance of eco-systems is disturbed either destructively as in de-forestation or constructively as rehabilitation of areas. It is also clear the pathogens are both mutating and new ones are being introduced.

Some pandemics came about as a result of improvement in sanitation and health. Bugger. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I will have to Google some of the issues from 1996 and see what the modern thinking is. But worth a read.

One concept stands out from all of this. Our immune systems are key. If immune systems are compromised then disease is not far behind. One cause of lowered immune systems in early societies was agriculture leading to nutritional deficiencies that hunters did not have because of their access to protein in the form of meat. This and poverty and war gave pathogens opportunity.

If cell phones lower immune systems, then the human species is headed for problems. My prediction was that immune systems would indeed be compromised and then a whole host of pathogens will reduce the population. So the corona virus is just a foretaste of what is too come, including societal disruption.

As part confirmation, my wife happened to speak to a man while they both waited for their cars to be washed. His wife has cervical cancer. My wife mentioned that cell towers can cause health problems. The man confirmed that they had moved into a house close to a cell tower and they have decided to sell because they have had a series of health problems in that house. His wife also had right upper arm pains and issue and that side also faced the tower.

Now for the part that I find interesting - he scoffed at the idea that the cell tower radiation was to blame.

I now have a number of stories about illnesses (like cancer and death) around towers, and most are just by way of chatting to strangers in stores and malls.

Another person at the hydro told me her cousin dropped dead from a heart attack at a mall parking lot. He was 42 years old.

[Bored chemist]

No doubt Satan will

Rather  a lot of doubt really.
The logical fallacy you employed there is called "begging the question".
Do you understand that by saying things that are clearly illogical, you undermine any attempts you make to put your views across?

They will not be able to make definitive judgements that I am doing anything but telling the truth.

That's just the sort of thing where using fallacies undermines you.

You know that it's fundamentally dishonest to use lies to make a point, but you use them.

[Bored chemist]

There are consequences to actions and consequences to sin. STDs are one consequence of promiscuity and sometimes the consequence can affect many people.

Still missing the point of the word "congenital".

[CliveG]

No doubt Satan will

Rather  a lot of doubt really.
The logical fallacy you employed there is called "begging the question".
Do you understand that by saying things that are clearly illogical, you undermine any attempts you make to put your views across?

They will not be able to make definitive judgements that I am doing anything but telling the truth.

That's just the sort of thing where using fallacies undermines you.

You know that it's fundamentally dishonest to use lies to make a point, but you use them.

You are spending too much time on the "Logical Fallacy" site. Trotting out cliches does not stimulate debate.

I have to be one of the more honest people in this world. There are times one has to avoid the blunt truth in order not to offend people and those are the times I have to be careful with my words so I do not deceive (a knowing falsehood or lie).

I would not use fallacies in an interview but facts. The truth as I have experienced it. Under cross examination the inconsistencies of lies comes to the fore. I have many experiences to support my hypothesis and there are simply no laws of physics which would explain them adequately.

[CliveG]

There are consequences to actions and consequences to sin. STDs are one consequence of promiscuity and sometimes the consequence can affect many people.

Still missing the point of the word "congenital".

Congenital - Passed on from mother to child at birth.

Another point about children. People will condemn themselves in swearing an oath. Eg "Do you swear up your life that you are not lying?" Yes. "Do you swear upon your child's life that you are not lying?" Um, cannot do that.

So it is a grievous consequence to get syphilis.

Often it was soldiers with their camp followers that got it. Paid mercenaries and paid prostitutes is the other way to look at many armies in historical times (and some armies not fighting wars of survival in modern times). The problem was that they both took it back when they dispersed.

So marriage had at least two  benefits. No syphilis and children were raised by two parents which was necessary in times without modern appliances and outsourcing to do the house work, cooking and child rearing. Human children need 8 years of care as their brains grow and develop. A human couple has ongoing erotic desires to keep them together during this time. I see examples of child rearing in one parent homes and they are problematic. If society experiences upheavals due to a die-off, the strongest units will be married families. Back to basics. The singles in Wuhan must be struggling without another human in the house.

[Bored chemist]

You are spending too much time on the "Logical Fallacy" site.

Not, it seems as much time as you. You keep on digging them out and trying to use them.

Trotting out cliches does not stimulate debate.

Especially when the cliches are fallacies.
So, why do you keep doing it?

There are times one has to avoid the blunt truth in order not to offend people and those are the times I have to be careful with my words so I do not deceive (a knowing falsehood or lie).

And yet, unless you are too dim to recognise that's what you are doing, you keep on doing exactly that.
And I can only conclude that it's deliberate on your part.
Because you keep doing it after you have been repeatedly told.
You can't claim that you "don't know".

And I see you are still missing the point, so I will try to spell it out for you.
IT'S NOT THE CHILD'S FAULT.

You have a God that punishes the child for something the child didn't do. That's a s***y way to behave.
Let's face it, given the circumstances, it's likely the father doesn't even know that the child exists. He's unlikely to be put off by the "risk" of suffering by someone he will never meet.

[CliveG]

(snip)
And I see you are still missing the point, so I will try to spell it out for you.
IT'S NOT THE CHILD'S FAULT.

You have a God that punishes the child for something the child didn't do. That's a s***y way to behave.
Let's face it, given the circumstances, it's likely the father doesn't even know that the child exists. He's unlikely to be put off by the "risk" of suffering by someone he will never meet.

I think I must repeat the basics of my hypothesis every so often to remind you that you are using the strawman of the Biblical God and the strawman that every pain and illness is a punishment meeted out by the Biblical God.

My God is not omni- all but is limited and for the most part observes and helps in small ways except to do some course corrections that are not observable by humankind. He assists by informing some people of how it all operates and has a person like Jesus do some miracles and gives some really profound lessons about good behavior. He will occasionally stop Satan from going too far or causing a disruption that may end the world.

Note that I spoke of "consequences" to actions. Not punishment by any entity. The laws of physics and the laws of nature work quite well and there is a very delicate balance in the ecosystem that corrects behaviors and events that would otherwise spin out of control. I spoke of the Bible giving good advice in general and did reference the phrase the "sins of the fathers" but did not endorse the phrase as punishment. You have attached that.

What is the difference between punishment and consequence? In earlier times, giving a science lecture to someone about the disruption to the ecological balance causing a direct or indirect negative consequence will be met with a blank stare. The target audience will sit up and take note of being punished for a sin and that punishment being extended to family. Do you not see how a religious text works? Taking the text too literally to try to attack the message is not the way to go.

There are 613 Biblical commandments that the Jewish faithful are to rigidly follow. The scholarly interpretations of just how to follow them (some are just avoided) run into volumes of legal language. (Two Jewish rabbis in an argument results in three different opinions.) Serious reasons for updating. Does God really care if one does a little "work" like turning on the light switch in the Sabbath? No. Many intelligent Jews are put off religion and God by such nit-picking adherence to an ancient text. Update the religion and bring in some science but don't throw out all the laws - such as the Ten Commandments.

Jesus taught in parables. Love thy neighbor. Who is your neighbor? The tale of the Good Samaritan. Many religious people have a problem with this one, depending on the race, religion and creed. The world needs cooperation not war to solve population problems. It will not happen so God will sit by and let nature take it's course. Punishment by God. No, just the consequence of humankind's greed and selfishness and warring nature.

However, I think God is prepared to get involved to "steer" how the situation turns out. He wants people to be more spiritual and to work together to balance the ecology. To limit births means a cooperative rearing of the fewer children. Have a group of 5 couples agree to raise 3 children together and share in the triumphs, failures and sorrows.

This is why I think I had a series of "lessons" with none of them absolute proof for even me. I may be wrong and misguided but if it is to be then God will arrange for it to happen.

[alancalverd]

Water into wine. One could suppose that such a miracle was allowed. Although if a rich admirer anonymously donated a lot of wine and food, it could have been left for people to gossip about a miracle. Even if a fully true miracle - where is the proof that laws of physics were broken.

No carbon atoms in water. You should have known that.

[alancalverd]

Congenital syphilis is not a punishment - a fetus can do no wrong so it can't be punished. It is a burden inflicted by god's living creation (a bacterium) on an innocent child. God is despicable, and drivelling on about the sins of the father being visited on the child just makes it more so - that's how filthy old perverts persuade teenagers to kill "unbelievers".

[CliveG]

Water into wine. One could suppose that such a miracle was allowed. Although if a rich admirer anonymously donated a lot of wine and food, it could have been left for people to gossip about a miracle. Even if a fully true miracle - where is the proof that laws of physics were broken.

No carbon atoms in water. You should have known that.

Strangely, I do know that. But what is the point? Water into wine is not alchemy which was an early science before they understood atoms and molecules.

I am claiming that the physical Universe that we have thought of as solid and immutable is simply an illusion and we are in the dream of the Ultimate Intelligence. Nothing is impossible, but breaking the laws of physics is rare and unprovable.

When I was in a lucid dream I could not at first tell whether I was dreaming or not, although I had a suspicion I was. I pinched myself and it hurt so that test did not work. I then said that if it was MY dream I could change things and I changed the clouds into cauliflower. And of course, I woke up in the morning. In the dream of the Ultimate Intelligence one wakes up after one dies, and you find yourself saying "Of course it was all unreal. This is the real reality". How do I know? Because it happened to me. I came back to where I left off and the Ultimate Intelligence told me I would think I had an hallucination but I would remember my time there. Neat trick. Did I or didn't I? If not for all the many other breaks of reality in my life, I would have simply dismissed it as such.

So we have two realities. One is the physical reality of our everyday lives where the laws of physics can be relied upon. The other is the reality of interaction with spirit and the very small possibility that the laws of physics are broken not by scientific formula but by an intelligence that decides when and how the laws will be broken.

I keep going back to how I knew for certain a biker would die on the road ahead of me on a clear uneventful ordinary day. And he did. No accident. Possibly a heart attack. That was no idle thought and no trick of the mind.

[CliveG]

Congenital syphilis is not a punishment - a fetus can do no wrong so it can't be punished. It is a burden inflicted by god's living creation (a bacterium) on an innocent child. God is despicable, and drivelling on about the sins of the father being visited on the child just makes it more so - that's how filthy old perverts persuade teenagers to kill "unbelievers".

The issue of punishment is a complex one.

But an aside. Your emotive language shows that "brotherly love" for all humankind is not something you try to practice. Every religion has its extremists - not only the Islamic religion but the Jewish and Christian religions as well. Some extremists are driven to extremes by circumstances (conflict and disruption mostly) and some by idealistic choice thinking they are doing something noble. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Could you put yourself in the other person's shoes and at least understand the motivations?

I am not a brotherly love type of person. I am a fighter and I want vengeance on those who do me wrong. I try not to be that way but it is hard. I see and experience so much evil and wrong that part of me says that a purge of humankind would have some benefits.

In my late teens and my twenties I had real hatred for those who wronged me. I had a mental (s)hit list and one by one those people suffered. One man got ill for a year and the foreman of the company he owned defrauded him and his wife of most of their money. They both got poetic justice because that is how they got rich - by defrauding the owner of the company they took over.  The lawyer for my second wife was a nasty piece of work and he was high on my list. Years after someone I was no longer friends with sent a newspaper clipping to the place I worked at. The lawyer had been disbarred, his wife divorced him, he had his leg broken and he got 15 years in jail.

But I realized that my wishes had a boomerang effect. There was a price to pay. It was not God answering my wishes but Satan. And yes, there is a spiritual consequence. I stopped wishing ill on my enemies but I did ask God to take note and to give them earthly retribution or at least judge them in the afterlife. It at least allowed me to move on. I do not forget and will only forgive when there is true repentance.

So does God punish evil doers? I think the answer is "Sometimes". It could also be that God allows Satan to punish them. So maybe God never gets his hands dirty so to speak and he remains the good guy. It is not only ecology that has a fine balance.

Now about the "punishment" of innocent children. This is a very strong motivator for hating God. Life is lessons we must all learn but the learning is that of the soul that evolves. Suffering is part of life. Buddha realized and taught that. So when a child dies or suffers, the soul that grew with that fetus goes through a learning process. That soul could have volunteered for that fetus knowing what was ahead, and knowing that a lesson would be learned by the parents.

Reincarnation was a belief of some Jews and Christians around the time of Christ if my memory serves me. It allows us to look at some of life's hardships in a different way. Although I am currently suffering very badly I endure it and take it as part of the spiritual lesson my soul must go through. I do not like it and pray to God to take it away. He has not and probably will not. So be it.

Here I will throw out another contentious matter. Some Jews believe that God punishes them. The God of the Old Testament was a vengeful God. God updated the Jewish religion by sending Jesus to give a new message. Some changed, some did not. What about the holocaust? Was that punishment? And if so - for what? What part did Satan play in all of that horror? Did God just permit Satan to subtly interfere to wreak such destruction? How does one judge God's non-involvement?

[CliveG]

This is an aside. Sometimes I know things. And sometimes I am wrong because I have not sat down with the cards or gone through a process of trying to get information from spirit. I am human with human emotions and human frailties. I was however a very high performing human who was not subject to brain malfunctions. Now I am, as I age, and I can see the difference, even though I still perform at a much higher level than many I interact with.

A few weeks ago the name Amy Klobuchar just kept resonating in my head. I thought it was because of the sounding of the name. I now think that it might be that she could become the Democratic candidate. This might be because she has fewer negatives. I like Bernie and what he stands for and always have but he is a socialist and a number of Americans are not ready for socialism. Biden I never liked, and Bloomberg is too much of an elite billionaire. Not sure what to make of Buttigieg. Strange name and it is funny how names can affect judgment. Standing in the poll booth - Trump or Butter-who?

Let's not get off on a tangent. I am just explaining that I will not do the Tarot cards to see if my human feelings are correct (because it is a blatant test), and I will not take credit for a prediction if I am correct.

[CliveG]

@Alan
Just another thought while I was having breakfast on our porch.

When I was young I was somewhat autistic. I did not understand why people got emotional about things. Things were logical. So was pain and death. Why did my mother and her sisters get hysterical when her father died. He was 77. Old. It was his time. He even cracked a joke on his death-bed. When people asked him how he felt he would say "I feel with my hands - how do you feel?". So as he lay dying with his children and doctor in attendance one asked him how he was feeling. They knew he could hear but could not talk. It was just something to say. But up came his hand and he rubbed his fingers together. The doctor had to give six sisters tranquilizers. I imagined him smiling inside - he knew his daughters.

When I was about 13 I was a hard atheist and believed that the world consisted of atoms and molecules and that we were just machines. So I could not understand the trauma of family when a dog savaged a kitten and they were too upset to take action. I took the kitten and held it in a bucket of water to end its suffering. Mostly to end the trauma of the family. It struggled and I just took the view it was a machine reacting to dying.

I have changed a heck of a lot and am now very empathetic. I still imagine pain to be simply electrical impulses going to my brain and to thus ignore them. I let the dentist work without anesthetic for example, and have burnt off growths with a soldering iron. But I feel other peoples pain and sorrow and my own loss of my late wife in 2011 (sixth wife).

So my question to atheists is: Why get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling molecules with no meaning to life because it is simply an accident, why get upset? God or no God, why does it bother you? You may reply that you are programmed to feel and react but why not just overcome your programming because it causes you distress?

[alancalverd]

Please don't pretend to tell me what I think. Such arrogance is the mark of a Believer and is unbecoming to a gentleman.

Humans have evolved as particularly collaborative and social animals. You might "overcome your programming" and live a solitary, disconnected life,  but for most of us, society is fun and collaboration is more effective than adiabatic self-sufficiency. Empathy drives the social lubricant.

As Dawkins pointed out, the only thing all religions have in common is that they teach you to despise all the others.  And here we have the purest example: a theist having the unmitigated gall to tell another human what he thinks about his friends and family, simply because he doesn't share your bizarre superstition.

If you want to be taken seriously, acquire some intellectual humility and scepticism.