[Bored chemist]

It makes no sense at all to deny that God must have been involved in creating the universe. It didn't create itself.

Proof by loud assertion is not going to work on a science site.
Try again.

[Bored chemist]

bog standard that the world was prepared for it?

The science was there.
The politicians were not.
Nothing to do with the virus per se.
The epidemiology of this virus is only slightly unusual in that the very young seem to not be greatly affected.
That fact, incidentally, would man it's a poorly designed population control plague.

[alancalverd]

"Innocent"? You believe there are people who are completely innocent, including inbred sin?

Your dogma is a disgusting excuse for bad behavior. Stew in it if you wish, but don't let me catch you spreading such filth.

[CliveG]

The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God...
... the handiwork of an Intelligent Source  ...

Nope ... https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity#How_.22Irreducibly_complex.22_structures_form
& nope ... https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-most-unfortunate-design-flaws-in-the-human-body-1518242787

I still maintain that the flagellum is irreducibly complex. There are steps missing. Some scientists propose what sort of in between structures "could" have come about. But they are guessing. And the odds are very much against them.

I only looked briefly at the site. Not worth the waste of time. The design flaws are issues that some people are of the opinion they would like changed. The birth canal where it is allows birthing babies to get "seeded" with bacteria to give them a good start in life. Amazing. My back is unusually strong because as a kid I use to love digging holes with a pick and shovel. A number of modern "problems" result because be have moved away from a natural way of life. Foot too complex? Rubbish. When some of use lose our hands we have a backup in our feet. Our feet are give us amazing balance and ability to scramble over rocks and things.

Sorry, but any complaints about our body design is grasping for straws. Watch a ballet dancer, any dancer actually, watch any sportsman, musician, mine worker, hard laborer, swimmer, scuba diver, machine operator and so on and you can open you eyes to incredible grace, strength, speed and beauty. Even aging is beautiful. Portraits of old people who have endured life and found peace.

I design things. Software, hardware, mechanical and electrical. Life on earth has to emerge from a single cell, and all the important parts of humans (and all other animals) has to be designed in right from the start. Change anything and even a small mistake would mean that nothing will evolve past simple life.

First you assume there is no God. Then you rationalize why God could not exist. Intelligent design is one of the more powerful arguments for the existence of God. It is countered by whinging about trivial complaints. In my view, evolution played a powerful part but it could not happen without God's tweaking and guidance.

[CliveG]

It is not as though He makes it difficult to find him.

I suggest you argue that point with CliveG who thinks God definitely hides whenever you actually do and experiment that looks for Him. When you agree amongst yourselves, come back and talk to us.
Certainly the experiments on proof of prayer didn't find Him.

duffyd and I do not disagree. God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.

[Bored chemist]

I still maintain that the flagellum is irreducibly complex. There are steps missing.

And, as usual, we await actual evidence.
What are the steps?

Some scientists propose what sort of in between structures "could" have come about. But they are guessing.

That's all they need to do.
Oce it is shown that it could happen without "God" there is no need to invoke the existence of a God to explain how it happened.
At that point, the complexity stops being anything like evidence for God.

Did you not understand that?

[Bored chemist]

God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.

That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?

[CliveG]

The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God.

No.
It isn't.
There is a perfectly plausible mechanism to get this complexity without needing to invoke a God.
Even if there weren't you still haven't actually moved things forward because , however complex a human might be, a God is necessarily more complex.

If you don't want to think that complicated things "just happen", then you can't say that an even more complicated God "just happened".
Your argument contradicts itself.

Intelligence can be seen as quite simple really. Only the scale appears to give the Ultimate Intelligence (and God and humans) the appearance of complexity.

Plausible mechanism to get the complexity? Yes. An remarkably designed (by God/UI) system of particles in a quantum sea of energy. So remarkable that humans and life could emerge. And I do not think you fully understand the complexity of the human body and mind. I did not until recently when studying cellular microbiology.

[CliveG]

We don't snap our fingers and create anything from nothing.

[ so why presume that any other entitity did so?

The Ultimate Intelligence has no fingers to snap.

It had to use the only thing it has. A mind.

[alancalverd]

So your god did design congenital syphilis. Why? 

[CliveG]

Don't tell me, let me guess,
...God is guiding the evolution of these bacteria

Only he feels he has to for some reason. Otherwise, the laws of physics and evolution were very well designed in the beginning to allow for what you see.

If a mutant pathogen were to arise that had the capability of wiping out humans, God would stop that mutation from happening. Just as God will intervene when he needs to in the current pandemic, and other possible consequences that may happen in the next few years. But he will only intervene when humankind is on the correct spiritual track.

[jeffreyH]

So your idea of your God is that it is a narcissistic sociopath. Much like Donald Trump then. Why not cut out the middle man and just worship the Donald. He is tangible. We have evidence that he exists. Everything he does is PERFECT!, WONDERFUL!

There you go. Your problem is solved. Just don't expect him to care what happens to you.

[CliveG]

So your god did design congenital syphilis. Why?

The design allowed for all sorts of things. Good and bad. Humankind is to rise above all the challenges.

Einstein was involved in the design of the atomic bomb. He knew its first use would be to kill large numbers of people. All things can be used for good or bad. Humans use bacteria in our gut to help us process food. There are good bacteria and bad bacteria.

You still want a perfect world and a perfect God. You have no choice - it is what it is. God guides and subtly intervenes to help humans and the world. He has no desire to intentionally cause suffering or misery. You would benefit from appealing to an Good Entity even if it does not exist.

When I talk about God designing, I assume he was tasked with the design with instructions from the Ultimate Intelligence. I make this allowance of God doing the design in order to accommodate various religions who see God as the Ultimate Creator. The Ultimate Blame lies with the Ultimate Intelligence who wants to be entertained and good and bad have no real meaning.

[CliveG]

So your idea of your God is that it is a narcissistic sociopath. Much like Donald Trump then. Why not cut out the middle man and just worship the Donald. He is tangible. We have evidence that he exists. Everything he does is PERFECT!, WONDERFUL!

There you go. Your problem is solved. Just don't expect him to care what happens to you.

See my other post just done. God is good. Satan is bad. Both have to work within the rules set out by the Ultimate Intelligence.

Praying to Trump, or a gold statue, or even thinking that money and power will save me, is just wrong thinking. God is well defined as a spiritual entity who does not need praise but appreciates respect and can do a lot of good, especially on a small personal scale. I pray to that entity. God has the power to do things for me and he has. I will continue to do so.

Why so angry about God? I keep asking that question and getting no answers. I suspect it has to do with childhood disappointment where people were raised to expect God to help them through life without question. And he did not meet expectations.

Any dislike of Trump I can understand. Would anyone else have been better? I shudder to think of Hillary in charge but who can tell. That would be an alternative time line.

[CliveG]

God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.

That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?

I keep telling you he intevernes in a positive way for some people, and for all people on a grand scale. What is the problem with being hidden? Why are you so insistence on scientific proof? You have a belief about how and why the universe came into existence - why not adjust it to my hypothesis and have some happiness? Rather than boredom. 

[CliveG]

Oce it is shown that it could happen without "God" there is no need to invoke the existence of a God to explain how it happened.

Show me how it could happen without God. I seem to have missed that in my research. Start at the very beginning please.

[RD]

I design things. Software, hardware, mechanical and electrical ...

Then you should have heard of evolutionary computing.

... Intelligent design is one of the more powerful arguments for the existence of God...

"Intelligent design" like legs on a whale, or a 14 foot detour for the laryngeal-nerve of a giraffe ...

[Bored chemist]

Start at the very beginning please.

Put the goal post back.
People notice if you move them round.

[Bored chemist]

and for all people on a grand scale.

Current estimated death toll in the US (alone) for His recent intervention is about 150,000.
Yep, He certainly "intervenes" .

he intevernes in a positive way

That's one viewpoint...

[duffyd]

Pressing, pressing and pressing, desperately shoving wild, disconnected blobs of theories how you believe God doesn't exist, that He isn't necessary, that he's a myth loved only by deluded, right-wing, hypocritical Trump loving fools is downright funny at times. It just may be that your world will not collapse and swallow you slowly in quick sand if you are wrong. Lighten up.