[wooder]

anyone feel a loss of energy as a result of urinating, could normal sperm production get mixed up somehow, as it is the same channel

saw a a uk doc the other day that was called before the BMC in the uk, in a case and she spoke of how we drink too much water, and flush out nutirnets along with toxins

I though the kidney was allegedly smarter than that but in light of frecent discoveries not so sure now

keeps happening to me latley

has anyone with posi had similiar

[daveman]

Laurac, my first answer was numbers on paper. But reflecting a moment, my ED went away...POIS improved incredibly, but I attributed it ALL to testosterone + stimulants...which all happened around the same time! Hmmmm...now look what you did to me, laurac!!!  []

Isn´t this a fun  game!! []
Somebody, tell me it's a game please!

[daveman]

well demo,  i went back to some test results of from 3-4 years ago when i was suffering quite badly from cfs/adrenal fatigue and found my free testosterone:

blood 16.5 pg/ml
saliva 19 pg/ml

I'm sorry, could you remind me what has helped you, maybe a link or a quick "solution type" description?

[FinalPanic]

Some Food For Thought:

POIS is not necessarily a malady *caused* by orgasm.

POIS is an illness that we have all the time, something unrelated to orgasm--such as depression, chronic fatigue, IBS, arthritis, or some other auto-immune disorder.

It's just that abstaining from orgasm is a powerful coping mechanism for our other illness because doing so gradually builds our hormone and neurotransmitter-related resiliency.

And orgasm--a temporary blow to our neurochemical buffer and strength--allows whatever illness we have to return to prominence.

This explains why we all have such varied symptoms and treatments that work for us; we all have different illnesses, but what we all have in common is that orgasm worsens it.

Perhaps we are a bit too focused on the orgasm mechanism itself, ignoring what the symptoms point to--something possibly right underneath our noses.

This is something I have also considered many times - and as commented earlier, has been summed up in a way that I have thus far been unable to do in such a clear and concise manner.

Trying to be brief does anybody else suffer thus:

After orgasm - the accepted symptoms of POIS

Coffee - makes me agitated, bad headache - general nervousness followed by about 2 hours of awful 'coming down' - I am able to drink decaff so presume it is being over stimulated by caffeine.

Alcohol - well the affects are widely known - but I now avoid as the following day is grim indeed - I know we all get hangovers - but it seems excessive to me for the small amount consumed.

Night of restless sleep - next day similar to POIS but mainly cognitive issues that can lead to a 'hangover' type affect the following day.

General nervousness/panic in situations where I least expect it - the severe hit from this leads to rapid feelings of exhaustion - but nothing like the magnitude of POIS.

This suggests to me that I live life with heightened sensitivity to any stimulus that simply blows apart my ability to cope/function in a normal manner, like a total system overload. I am sure there must be anxiety sufferers who do not have POIS and enjoy a healthy sex life, so I am not going to agree with my GP that I need to relax and all will be well.

Maybe I am, for some reason overly sensitive to all these stimuli - I am just wondering if I am alone with this, without wanting to change the discussion too much from POIS to general malaise!!

[daveman]

Some Food For Thought:

POIS is not necessarily a malady *caused* by orgasm.

POIS is an illness that we have all the time, something unrelated to orgasm--such as depression, chronic fatigue, IBS, arthritis, or some other auto-immune disorder.

It's just that abstaining from orgasm is a powerful coping mechanism for our other illness because doing so gradually builds our hormone and neurotransmitter-related resiliency.

And orgasm--a temporary blow to our neurochemical buffer and strength--allows whatever illness we have to return to prominence.

This explains why we all have such varied symptoms and treatments that work for us; we all have different illnesses, but what we all have in common is that orgasm worsens it.

Perhaps we are a bit too focused on the orgasm mechanism itself, ignoring what the symptoms point to--something possibly right underneath our noses.

This is something I have also considered many times - and as commented earlier, has been summed up in a way that I have thus far been unable to do in such a clear and concise manner.

Trying to be brief does anybody else suffer thus:

After orgasm - the accepted symptoms of POIS

Coffee - makes me agitated, bad headache - general nervousness followed by about 2 hours of awful 'coming down' - I am able to drink decaff so presume it is being over stimulated by caffeine.

Alcohol - well the affects are widely known - but I now avoid as the following day is grim indeed - I know we all get hangovers - but it seems excessive to me for the small amount consumed.

Night of restless sleep - next day similar to POIS but mainly cognitive issues that can lead to a 'hangover' type affect the following day.

General nervousness/panic in situations where I least expect it - the severe hit from this leads to rapid feelings of exhaustion - but nothing like the magnitude of POIS.

This suggests to me that I live life with heightened sensitivity to any stimulus that simply blows apart my ability to cope/function in a normal manner, like a total system overload. I am sure there must be anxiety sufferers who do not have POIS and enjoy a healthy sex life, so I am not going to agree with my GP that I need to relax and all will be well.

Maybe I am, for some reason overly sensitive to all these stimuli - I am just wondering if I am alone with this, without wanting to change the discussion too much from POIS to general malaise!!

This is ALL part of the discussion!

In my case:
Coffee - No abnormal affect
Alcohol - Don't think there's an abnormal effect, although in the last couple of years, I have not been able to party late like I used to, although I'm going on 62. So if it's POIS related it's been an effect with time.
Night of restless sleep - Yes to some degree and more recently.
General nervousness/panic - No

[daveman]

FinalPanic and RythmSpring,

As Demos said, the line defining where POIS starts is so broad and fuzzy. I'm realizing that I've had it for several years more than I thought, attributing POIS symptoms to other things, and not recognizing that the Orgasm was the trigger.

But that said, there's the chicken and the egg principle. Is POIS causing or flaring up otherwise developing illnesses?

To find out whether POIS is ampliying or causing, we would have to test two groups, a group with POIS and a group without POIS but with immune / auto-immune (or other) illnesses.

Many here have had POIS since puberty and so they would have had to have had one or another of these dormant illnesses too. I, and perhaps others like me developed POIS quite late in the game (thank God), and so should be in a better position to note whether I could have had something else first. Unfortunately, the only thing I could have had first for sure, is hyper-tension (controled). But even with that, symptoms associated with BP, hadn't showed up until about the same time as POIS but maybe slightly before.... that is if I can define when POIS started!! But I still can't say whether the BP symptoms would have begun without POIS or not.

If I had to guess, I would say that POIS causes an auto-immune system imbalance, reacting in a disproportionate manner that inflames sensitive tissues. I would tend to believe that there must be some seed/source of inflamation that possibly would otherwise be suppressed as part of a proper auto-immune balance, but that POIS is a result of unblocking that inhibitor, or throwing the balance past the threshold of the inhibitor (one or the other).

But I'm and electronics engineer, so.....

[daveman]

FinalPanic

There's been a lot of stuff commented here on this forum about foodstuffs which can aggravate POIS symptoms, often things that we normally wouldn't see as aggresors, and others that reduce symptoms too, strawberries, bilberries and the like. Demo is the expert at generating Google look-ups. I'm not sure what one would have to put into Google to highlight the varios possibilities mentioned herein.

[Limejuice]

A note of optimism for those determined to beat this.

Progesterone has been a 90% cure for me, so last week I ran out coincidentally.  I received a one month trial from a doctor that will not help me anymore (unfortunately).  Determined and stubborn to get more progesterone I schedule an appt with another doctor yesterday - he would not prescribe it to me.  I scheduled another appt with another Dr. in the afternoon - he would not prescribe either.  I then scheduled a third appt with another Dr. and they prescribed it!

Good thing I didn't give up, even though the first and second doctor inferred that I should.

[daveman]

A note of optimism for those determined to beat this.

Progesterone has been a 90% cure for me, so last week I ran out coincidentally.  I received a one month trial from a doctor that will not help me anymore (unfortunately).  Determined and stubborn to get more progesterone I schedule an appt with another doctor yesterday - he would not prescribe it to me.  I scheduled another appt with another Dr. in the afternoon - he would not prescribe either.  I then scheduled a third appt with another Dr. and they prescribed it!

Good thing I didn't give up, even though the first and second doctor inferred that I should.

Isn't there a way, given that one is informed and having somewhat of a success, that one could sign an agreement with one of these doctors relieving them of responsibility. It seems it's more that that they're concerned about rather than one's health, especially if you can show that it's working and you know what the downside could be.

[Limejuice]

Possibly, which is the problem because it's not a standard practice in 'good medicine'.

Seeing a new doctor for an unknown disease (POIS) and asking for an atypical remedy (progesterone for men) could create shell shock and rejection.

[daveman]

Possibly, which is the problem because it's not a standard practice in 'good medicine'.

Seeing a new doctor for an unknown disease (POIS) and asking for an atypical remedy (progesterone for men) could create shell shock and rejection.

I admire the guts and confidence of that last doctor who signed!!

I'm sure doctors have to be careful about mal-practice suits. What a world we live in!

[Limejuice]

I'd be interested in knowing what our test results would be for each of these.  Maybe the problem isn't testosterone or progesterone, but something ealier in the cascade.  And maybe thats why T and P are only partial cures.

[daveman]

I'd be interested in knowing what our test results would be for each of these.  Maybe the problem isn't testosterone or progesterone, but something ealier in the cascade.  And maybe thats why T and P are only partial cures.

Speaking of that, sometimes I get a pinch in the testicles in the phase of arousal (2 min) prior to the orgasm (presumably they are preparing or generating something). If I stop after that but prior to the orgasm, I don't get POIS symptoms.

Although this might indicate that nothing prior to 2 min before initiates POIS, it doesn't mean that such thing, potentially lacking or excessive could cause T or P to have undesireable effects.

[demografx]

My FOLLOW-UP letter to major university research endocrinologist, who has worked with me successfully to alleviate my POIS symptoms

From:          demo
To:            Dr G, M.D.
Sent:          Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:55 PM
Subject:       DR G, can you please recommend a graduate student?

Dr G, I'm sorry to send you this again (originally sent April 26, 2010),  I know you must be swamped after the absence.

But my little forum is desperate for answers, and vulnerable to quacks and scams. You've seen a little bit of that from these "bodybuilder gurus". Thanks so much for understanding!      

demo

=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  = =  =  =  =  =  =  =

Dear Dr G,              

Would it be possible for my forum to work with a bright graduate student who you would recommend to study our forum's data that's been gathered over the last 3 years and make recommendations for the next step in researching our condition? (POIS - Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome).

We have a limited budget from a few donor-sufferers and could pay some fees to the student to get us help in rolling out to the next steps.

We desperately need a starting point and feel the right student-researcher could be of enormous help.

Our forum is at:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0

Dr G, you have already been enormously helpful and I am hopeful you can help us make a breakthrough for an extremely debilitating malady.

Best regards,

demo
123.456.7890 Cellphone

Here are some POIS resources which we can provide your student:

A  very detailed online survey on 75 POIS sufferers.
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

Our new POIS Information Website,
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Member "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases(300) here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat).  
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

POIS Research Study (attached)

We have a copy of the first and only formal medical investigation on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD., an endocrinologist.

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

We've been referenced in respectable sources such as the British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For for over 3 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus over 600,000 page visits.
 

[Limejuice]

I'm going to dtate the obvious. If we get a professional or student to study us that will be the biggest stepping stone yet!

[demografx]

Thanks, Limejuice. And if we get one from this university s/he'll have access to some of the best minds, libraries and lab facilities worldwide

[demografx]

A note of optimism for those determined to beat this.

Progesterone has been a 90% cure for me, so last week I ran out coincidentally.  I received a one month trial from a doctor that will not help me anymore (unfortunately).  Determined and stubborn to get more progesterone I schedule an appt with another doctor yesterday - he would not prescribe it to me.  I scheduled another appt with another Dr. in the afternoon - he would not prescribe either.  I then scheduled a third appt with another Dr. and they prescribed it!

Good thing I didn't give up, even though the first and second doctor inferred that I should.

You know me by now.........so I say CONGRATULATIONS and also.......... puh-leeeeeeeeeze be careful, Limejuice!!

[CertainlyPOIS]

A note of optimism for those determined to beat this.

Progesterone has been a 90% cure for me, so last week I ran out coincidentally.  I received a one month trial from a doctor that will not help me anymore (unfortunately).  Determined and stubborn to get more progesterone I schedule an appt with another doctor yesterday - he would not prescribe it to me.  I scheduled another appt with another Dr. in the afternoon - he would not prescribe either.  I then scheduled a third appt with another Dr. and they prescribed it!

Good thing I didn't give up, even though the first and second doctor inferred that I should.

I dont know why this doctors are so crazy about norethisterone, the fda aprrove usage of plan B, which is pure levonorgestrel without prescription. I like to say the progesterone effect of levonorgestrel is 5.3 times and androgenic effect is about 8 times that of noriethisterone. It dosnt make it particularlly safe but if it is that bad the FDA would not approve to used without doctor's prescription. 

[demografx]

CC, maybe the bigger problem that Limejuice is running into is the "off-label use" of progesterone, especially if it's for POIS: (1) an off-label use - for - (2) an unrecognized malady...a double whammy! Tagged as "experimental" treatment, a doctor could be afraid of his license tenure and/or malpractice.

[demografx]

It [POIS]'s real alright, and it's a bummer....

But since I've been here, my situation has improved a lot. But you will need to dig in, share, identify your POIS ( we're all a little bit different, but sort of the same in groups) and identify your approach to getting better.

Thanks, daveman, I appreciate very much your vote of confidence in this forum's ability to make a difference to everyone.

And, as you say, it doesn't happen automatically. We all have to put in an effort to make this forum work for us.

But the payoff will be there if you do "work this forum".

You might not find an immediate cure, but perhaps some relief, more optimism, and a sense of accomplishment.

Whether we like it or not, we are the POIS pioneers, establishing the groundwork for future generations. So we can't only look to the "outside world" to save us, we have to do much of the legwork ourselves.

And I commend everyone here for having done much of that legwork, even if it's only reading the posts!