[Colin2B]

This is for the following reason.
1. Due to my inexperience, because I did not work in scientific organizations (I'm a farmer).

There is no problem with this, no one is expected to know everything and there are plenty of opportunities to learn. People here are willing to help.
I have a great deal of respect for farmers, my cousin owns a dairy farm and we have some very interesting conversations about the science of farming.
I have no doubt that you are very intelligent - in fact you wouldn’t have had much attention if we thought you a fool - however, your ideas won’t progress if you don’t take on board the areas where your ideas fail to make sense.

If you do not recognize the theory of tides then you have to disprove the theory of dead zones, and this is not possible to do, it is too simple and understandable.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74483.0

I do recognise the theory of tides and I understand the theory of dead zones so I have no interest in disproving either, however, your ideas have nothing to do with either of these.

If you had come with an idea that circulating currents and precession contribute to the total tidal effect, then I could have shown you a way of analysing that; but to claim that those currents are solely responsible for tides has not stood up to analysis.

[Bored chemist]

YH [Starts topic ] Tides are caused by whale farts!

Someone posts "nope, it's the Sun + moon- there's a WIKI page here"

YH "It's whale farts- here's a picture of a whale farting"

Someone posts "Nobody said they don't fart, it's just that's not what causes the tides"

YH [marks his own post as "best"]

YH "See!- I must be right- my idea has been marked as the best answer"
Most people leave because they can't be bothered with this sort of dross

Someone posts"Do you realise that agreeing with yourself proves nothing?"
YH "But it's the best answer".
 YH [Sets up poll] And I marvelous, / wonderful / God/ a twit?
Someone posts " Science is not a popularity constest".
"Twit" gets highest poll result.
YH- never mind the poll it's still whale farts that cause the tides.

Someone posts "How come the tides are synchronised to the moon?
YH- "Look an animation of a whale farting, and a report in Russian saying that whales get indigestion if they eat beans"

Someone posts "yes, but that doesn't prove anythign about tides.
Why do tides turn every 12 hrs 25 min?

YH "Here's some more stuff about whales"

and so on...

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

I understand the theory of dead zones

You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.

[Bored chemist]

You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.

You have muddled those two ideas up.

[Kryptid]

YH [Starts topic ] Tides are caused by whale farts!

Someone posts "nope, it's the Sun + moon- there's a WIKI page here"

YH "It's whale farts- here's a picture of a whale farting"

Someone posts "Nobody said they don't fart, it's just that's not what causes the tides"

YH [marks his own post as "best"]

YH "See!- I must be right- my idea has been marked as the best answer"
Most people leave because they can't be bothered with this sort of dross

Someone posts"Do you realise that agreeing with yourself proves nothing?"
YH "But it's the best answer".
 YH [Sets up poll] And I marvelous, / wonderful / God/ a twit?
Someone posts " Science is not a popularity constest".
"Twit" gets highest poll result.
YH- never mind the poll it's still whale farts that cause the tides.

Someone posts "How come the tides are synchronised to the moon?
YH- "Look an animation of a whale farting, and a report in Russian saying that whales get indigestion if they eat beans"

Someone posts "yes, but that doesn't prove anythign about tides.
Why do tides turn every 12 hrs 25 min?

YH "Here's some more stuff about whales"

and so on...

A perfect summary of what these threads have been like.

[guest39538]

Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined somebody, let alone the OP

And I thought so, and was surprised.

If you can answer me this question I will look over the entire thread and take you serious.

If science is wrong about the tides , then how can science predict the times etc of the tide coming in and going out for shipping and fishermen ?

It does seem they know how the tides work , where your notions at a glance would have random tidal times ?

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.

You have muddled those two ideas up.

What I confuse.

[Bored chemist]

You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.

You have muddled those two ideas up.

What I confuse.

you are confused; you think  that Colin knows there are dead zones but only you understand them.
In fact Colin understands them and you only know that they exist.

[Bored chemist]

A perfect summary of what these threads have been like.

Thanks
That was more or less my plan.
I wonder how long it will take YH to explain what's wrong with it.

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.

You have muddled those two ideas up.

What I confuse.

you are confused; you think  that Colin knows there are dead zones but only you understand them.
In fact Colin understands them and you only know that they exist.

This is not an answer!
The question asked Colin, let Colin answer, that he has fewer brains.

[opportunity]

Yusuf has made it clear to me about the reality of the seasonal variation of tides owing to the seasonal axial shift of the planet.....that's not something earth-moon tide theory thinks about......if of course science can pick this up, as it should.

What makes you think ‘science’ has not picked this up?
You are right that the earth-moon theory does not explain this, but the reason is that (as we have said repeatedly in these threads) there is another player, the sun. The earth’s axial tilt does not change as it orbits the sun, but the sun’s declination does change and as well as affecting the seasons it also affects the tides during those season, but - and this is important - it is due to gravitational forces not some mythical whirlpool/precession idea as is stated by the OP.

I know how you've read the argument. Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff.

I agree with @Bored chemist  - folie à deux

Yes, the Earth has fixed precession, yet as this happens around the sun the way it does, we have the seasons, the sun "and moon" being more equatorial at times (twice a year). The point I registered from Yusuf was that such a change in the alignment of the sun-moon as the seasons gives rise to different tidal dynamics in different oceans based on the different relative geographies during these seasons. I can see it quite clearly how that works.

I have mentioned to Yusuf, and even apologised to him for doing so, that the moon is a primary feature of the tides, and gave many examples for that, "yet" I did acknowledge how he could conceives of a smaller scale whirlpool model of tides "provided" it included the effect of the Moon.

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

I have mentioned to Yusuf, and even apologised to him for doing so, that the moon is a primary feature of the tides

It does not seem strange to you that a farmer from the province finds errors in celestial mechanics, and celestial mechanics is considered the most studied branch of science (celestial mechanics studies visible objects).
And what happens in other branches of science, especially in the microcosm and the macrocosm where it is difficult to verify the theory.

[Bored chemist]

It does not seem strange to you that a farmer from the province finds errors in celestial mechanics,

Is that a reference to Isaac Newton?

This is not an answer!

Yes it is.

The question asked Colin, let Colin answer,

It won't matter who answers. How could it make a difference if it is me who posts the truth or if it is Colin who posts the truth (or anyone else)?

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0

Please show the trajectory of the tidal wave, from the Strait of Gibraltar to the Gulf of Gabes. Show the amphidromic point.

[Colin2B]

let Colin answer, that he has fewer brains.

Well, if that’s how you feel I’m happy to leave you to your own company.
It really doesn’t bother me what you post as no one will take it seriously.

[Colin2B]

I did acknowledge how he could conceives of a smaller scale whirlpool model of tides "provided" it included the effect of the Moon.

This is one aspect of his posts which would be interesting to investigate - what would be the magnitude of the contribution.
As you are aware a rigid gyroscope is very different from a circulating current. A rigid gyroscope would indeed turn over because it is balanced. A circulating current can’t do that, it has to constantly respond to the restoring forces of gravity and the tendency of water to find a equilibrium level, so it will find a constant displacement. Also a current can’t precess because it can’t transfer torque to the other particles.
Have a go, it would be interesting to see what you come up with.

[Bored chemist]

Show the amphidromic point.

Why do you assume there is one?

[Bored chemist]

Please show the trajectory of the tidal wave, from the Strait of Gibraltar to the Gulf of Gabes

Something like this?

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

I did acknowledge how he could conceives of a smaller scale whirlpool model of tides "provided" it included the effect of the Moon.

This is one aspect of his posts which would be interesting to investigate - what would be the magnitude of the contribution.
As you are aware a rigid gyroscope is very different from a circulating current. A rigid gyroscope would indeed turn over because it is balanced. A circulating current can’t do that, it has to constantly respond to the restoring forces of gravity and the tendency of water to find a equilibrium level, so it will find a constant displacement. Also a current can’t precess because it can’t transfer torque to the other particles.
Have a go, it would be interesting to see what you come up with.

https://youtu.be/ZEhm_ONTQKc Block diagram of a tidal wave along the perimeter of the vortex water in the Atlantic plateau.

Precision of the gyro http://goo.gl/cxlGU3
Video - "Flexible Drive

Video "tipping gyro" http://goo.gl/1eJyfs
Video "Experience with gyroscope" (drift of whirlpools)

------------------------------------------------
For reference: a gyro is a device that, due to rotation, reacts differently to external forces than to a stationary object. The simplest gyro is yula. By distributing yule on a horizontal surface and tilting the surface, you'll notice that yule keeps horizontal torsion.

Precession deviation of the axis of rotation under the influence of external forces. It is very easy to observe the precession. You need to start the top and wait until it starts to slow down. Initially, the axis of rotation of the vertex is vertical. Then its upper point gradually descends and moves along a diverging spiral. This is the precession of the axis of the top.

When measuring the Earth's rotation speed, exactly the same effect was noted, only on very small scales - a very small but significant deviation of the rotation axis of the huge Foucault gyro was observed. Since the whirlpools are several kilometers larger and heavier than the experimental Foucault gyroscope, there are many more - in particular, tides.

To check the vortex hypothesis, I fixed the fan on the globe where the whirlpool is located, I inserted the metal balls onto the springs instead of the blades, turned on the fan (whirlpool), rotating the globe around the axis and around the Sun, and got a simulated low tide and a stream. ,

The attractiveness of the theory of the whirlpool lies in the fact that it is convincingly verified by the whirlpool fixed on the globe.
The sensitivity of the gyro-vortex to the increase and oscillation of the Earth's orbital velocity is so great that the globe must rotate and move in orbit extremely slowly (one revolution in 5 minutes).

If the gyro-vortex is installed on the globe at the mouth of the Amazon River, then no doubt it will show the exact mechanics and calendar of the tides of the Amazon River.
When the globe rotates only around the axis, the gyro-vortex tilts to one side and stands still, and if the globe moves and rotates, the gyroscope-vortex begins to oscillate (precess) and gives two tides a day.

If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the whirlpools that are at midnight and the midday side of the Earth are more active, as they are, in the zone of relative movement. And when the whirlpool enters the sunset and the dawn zone and becomes the edge to the Sun, it subsides.
If in the sea the current moves north or south, the Coriolis force presses water to the shores of the sea, and if the current moves to the west or east, then the current pressure to the bottom of the sea or up (precession), this creates tides.
In the Bay of Fundy, the tides create a stream in the north of the Gulf of Maine, which moves against the rotation of the Earth.
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-conte...lation/fig4.jpg
The experience with the globe is more convincing than the theoretical description of the theory.

Doubts in the presence of precession in the whirlpools due to slow rotation are eliminated with a high rate of tipping the whirlpools for 12 hours. (In order to overturn a whirlpool, a hoop, an annular plate, they must be rotated 180 degrees).
While the Earth is making one revolution around its axis, the whirlpool turns twice, during this time the tidal wave succeeds in order to bypass the perimeter of the White Sea twice.
If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the waters of the White Sea will rotate counterclockwise on the south side of the Earth, and on the midnight side of the Earth the waters of the White Sea will rotate clockwise.

[opportunity]

What's the game-plan of your knowledge and knowledge-sharing?

Convincing someone of a science can produce a type of technology that only goes so far. How is your knowledge helping humanity despite the current criticism?