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  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. That CAN'T be true!
  4. Why do tides disappear in some places?

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Why do tides disappear in some places?

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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #40 on: 29/08/2018 22:06:46 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 26/08/2018 20:11:46
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 21/08/2018 21:38:38
Quote from: Bored chemist on 10/08/2018 18:13:18
But until the tides stop corresponding to the position of the moon, nobody is going to believe any suggestion that the tides are not driven mainly by the moon.
October 3, 1869, the amplitude of the tide in the Bay of Fundy was 5 meters.
October 4, 1869 amplitude of the tide in the Bay of Fundy was 21 meters (Once in the history of observation).
For one day in the Bay of Fundy, the amplitude of the tides increased from 5 to 21 meters, 4-fold.
Question. What has changed in the Bay of Fundy in one day.
1. Gravitation.
2. The coastline
3. Inclination of the moon.
4. Rotational speed of the whirlpool.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1869_Saxby_Gale
Sharp fluctuations in the amplitude of tides occur not only in the Bay of Fundy, but also in other bays where rivers flow.
You can read the encyclopedia
https://www.encyclopedia.com/earth-and-environment/geology-and-oceanography/geology-and-oceanography/tides
https://www.1902encyclopedia.com/T/TID/tides.html
Who is ready to refute or recognize this theory.
« Last Edit: 30/08/2018 10:17:41 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #41 on: 02/09/2018 08:14:32 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 29/08/2018 22:06:46
Who is ready to refute or recognize this theory.
Silence of opponents shows that they do not have a constructive counterargument.
And this means that you subconsciously agree with the new theory.
Congratulations, you are free from medieval prejudices.
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #42 on: 02/09/2018 08:19:21 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 07:44:19
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 29/08/2018 22:06:46
Congratulations, you are free from medieval prejudices.
Yes we are, but you are not

Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 07:44:19
Silence of opponents shows that they do not have a constructive counterargument.
Last resort of the pseudo scientist.

Answers have been provided, but ignored. No point wasting more time.
eg:

Quote from: Colin2B on 30/08/2018 09:05:02
Again, you are being selective with the data. If you look at a map of the world you will see that the equator passes through very few coastal places whereas the 2 temperate zones include a large number of coastal sites, so your two samples are not comparable.
As I pointed out before, your precession theory would result in larger tides at the equator than anywhere else, so the onus is on you to provide the evidence.
In reality the maximum tidal bulge follows the moon’s orbit which does not follow the equator. Many people mistakenly think it does and so make an incorrect assumption.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/08/2018 12:48:40
You say your "theory" solves all the problems.
Please show us ho you  would use it to calculate (as an example) the times of the next few high tides in London, New York or Barcelona or some other place where we can check.
If you can't do that then your idea doesn't even solve the simplest problem.
Unfortunately you are avoiding answering @Bored chemist  and looking at your post I can see why.

Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 13:55:47
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
The first problem with this formula is that it does not return an amplitude, it produces a number of square metres per second. That is clearly wrong.

Next problem involves timing:
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 13:55:47
As is known, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, possess the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.
If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, turn over twice a day, due to which the whirlpools precess (swing by 1-2 degrees) and reflect the tidal wave around the entire perimeter of the whirlpool.
A rigid gyroscope on earth will indeed align itself to the sidereal day which is 4mins shorter than the solar day. However, that gives a number of problems for your theory.
Firstly, we know from observation that the main tide period is period is about 12hrs 25mins - half a lunar day - so two tides take 24hrs 50mins which is the average time for the Earth to rotate once relative to the Moon. This is a hugh difference from your difference of 4mins in 24hrs making your double tide period 23hrs 56mins.  Clearly your predictions can never work with this theory.

Your precession theory is also flawed because we are not dealing with a rigid gyroscope, so rather than turning over the water level would rise at one edge until gravity restrained it, leading to a constant level.

Quote from: The Spoon on 29/08/2018 21:21:47
I have sailed in the Severn estuary several times and have yet to encounter these whirlpools you seem to think are present.
They don’t exist in the channel or north sea either. He is confusing tidal wave circulation with currents and doesn’t understand the difference.

There are so many false assumptions in these various topics that is hardly worth the effort of replying, especially as the op isn’t listening and just keeps repeating the same old false claims.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #43 on: 02/09/2018 09:23:34 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 02/09/2018 08:19:21
I have sailed in the Severn estuary several times and have yet to encounter these whirlpools you seem to think are present.
Whirlpools cyclones and anticyclones are not possible to see not armed with the eye, they are too big. And the wind and current can be seen.
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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #44 on: 02/09/2018 09:30:14 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:27:04
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Why is the height of the tides in the Baltic Sea 10 cm, and in the White Sea 10 meters.
And check the rotation speed of the whirlpool (flow velocity).
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/7-more-okean/10.htm
« Last Edit: 02/09/2018 11:13:51 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #45 on: 02/09/2018 09:43:36 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:30:14
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:27:04
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Why is the height of the tides in the Baltic Sea 10 cm, and in the White Sea 10 meters.
And check the rotation speed of the whirlpool (flow velocity).
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/7-more-okean/10.htm
You seem to have answered your own question.
Google's translation of the page you cited says
"In narrow places, in straits, tidal currents reach a tremendous speed. So in the narrow part of the White Sea - in the so-called Throat - tidal currents reach a speed of 15 kilometers per hour.

What are the causes of this phenomenon?

The main culprit of the tides is the Moon and, to a lesser extent, the Sun. "
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #46 on: 02/09/2018 10:02:47 »
It is believed that in the Baltic and White Sea tidal current moves from the Atlantic Ocean.
You can explain the mechanics of this movement.
« Last Edit: 02/09/2018 10:06:08 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #47 on: 02/09/2018 10:13:12 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 10:02:47
It is believed that in the Baltic and White Sea tidal current moves from the Atlantic Ocean.
You can explain the mechanics of this movement.
It gets pulled in by the Moon's gravity.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #48 on: 02/09/2018 10:31:50 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/09/2018 09:43:36
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:30:14
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:27:04
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Why is the height of the tides in the Baltic Sea 10 cm, and in the White Sea 10 meters.
And check the rotation speed of the whirlpool (flow velocity).
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/7-more-okean/10.htm
You seem to have answered your own question.
Google's translation of the page you cited says
"In narrow places, in straits, tidal currents reach a tremendous speed. So in the narrow part of the White Sea - in the so-called Throat - tidal currents reach a speed of 15 kilometers per hour.

What are the causes of this phenomenon?

The main culprit of the tides is the Moon and, to a lesser extent, the Sun. "
This is not an answer!
If you do not know the answer, give the opportunity to answer another, or do not answer the question at all.
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #49 on: 02/09/2018 10:38:06 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:23:34
Quote from: Colin2B on 02/09/2018 08:19:21
I have sailed in the Severn estuary several times and have yet to encounter these whirlpools you seem to think are present.
Whirlpools cyclones and anticyclones are not possible to see not armed with the eye, they are too big. And the wind and current can be seen.
They would show up (if they existed) as they would affect the SOG (speed over ground) of a boat, and this is something sailors keep a close eye on.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #50 on: 02/09/2018 10:39:09 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 10:31:50
This is not an answer!
Yes it is.
Unless you can prove that the  Moon and Sun are not responsible, it will remain a valid answer.
It's not going to change just because you don't like it.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #51 on: 02/09/2018 10:47:20 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:30:14
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:27:04
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Why is the height of the tides in the Baltic Sea 10 cm, and in the White Sea 10 meters.
And check the rotation speed of the whirlpool (flow velocity).
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/7-more-okean/10.htm
Please answer the question
« Last Edit: 02/09/2018 11:12:42 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #52 on: 02/09/2018 11:04:57 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 10:47:20
Please answer the question
I did.
And you said it wasn't an answer.
But you can't seem to say why not.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #53 on: 02/09/2018 11:23:37 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:30:14
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:27:04
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Please read this post carefully and you will be free from heresy.
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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #54 on: 02/09/2018 11:30:02 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 11:23:37
Please read this post carefully and you will be free from heresy.
That makes no sense.
Please try answering the question.
What's wrong with the model where the Sun and Moon create the tides?
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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #55 on: 02/09/2018 12:52:50 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/09/2018 11:30:02
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 11:23:37
Please read this post carefully and you will be free from heresy.
That makes no sense.
Please try answering the question.
What's wrong with the model where the Sun and Moon create the tides?
You consciously leave the answer.
Call the sea where there are high tides, but there is no fast flow.
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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #56 on: 02/09/2018 14:23:27 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 12:52:50
You consciously leave the answer.
Call the sea where there are high tides, but there is no fast flow.
I'm sorry, but that made little sense.

The places where the tidal range is larger are generally where the tide is funneled into a bay or estuary.
Because the tidal bulge (dragged by the moon's gravity) enters the funnel and travels along it, the same volume of water is forced into a narrow passage and so it has to get deeper.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #57 on: 02/09/2018 14:29:23 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 12:52:50
Call the sea where there are high tides, but there is no fast flow.
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #58 on: 02/09/2018 15:15:57 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 10:47:20
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 09:27:04
Why is the height of the tides in the Baltic Sea 10 cm, and in the White Sea 10 meters.
And check the rotation speed of the whirlpool (flow velocity).
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/7-more-okean/10.htm
Please answer the question

You have already answered it for us. This link says nothing about rotation speeds of whirlpools, but does say:
“What are the causes of this phenomenon?
The main culprit of the tides is the Moon and, to a lesser extent, the Sun. The inhabitants of the sea coast have long noticed the connection of the tides with the movement of these luminaries.
How does the Moon and the Sun affect the movement of water in the seas and oceans? That's how. It is known that the Moon moves around the Earth and that both planets move around the Sun. But since the Moon is many times closer to the Earth than the Sun, the Moon's attraction to the Earth is much stronger than the impact of the Sun. Naturally, this influence has the strongest and most visible effect on the liquid shell of our planet, that is, on the oceans and seas.
If there were no continents and islands on the surface of the Earth and the whole Earth would be covered by water (also of equal depth), then the impact of the moon on this world ocean would have the following effect. In the region of the ocean closest to the Moon, due to attraction, there will be a rising of water to meet the Moon. At the same time, in the opposite part of the world ocean, the centrifugal force will also cause a rise in water. But since the rising of the water can not happen anywhere without a drop in the level elsewhere, this fall will occur in a strip perpendicular to the line of action of the moon. The moon circumnavigates the globe within 24 hours 50 minutes; Thus, it is obvious that the rising and lowering of waters as a result of the tidal wave following the movement of the Moon will take place twice a day in the world's oceans.
We said that the Sun, due to its remoteness, has less impact on the ocean's waters. However, when the Moon and the Sun are aligned with the Earth on one straight line (in the new moon and the full moon), the particles of water will be under the influence of both luminaries, and, naturally, this will cause the greatest tide. But there may be an opposite phenomenon, when the Moon and the Sun are on lines perpendicular to each other. In this case, the forces of the two luminaries will be directed in different directions and will counteract each other. Obviously, and the tide will be at this moment the smallest.
We considered this phenomenon now in the conditions of a boundless world ocean, but in fact, continents and islands divide the world ocean into separate oceans and various seas. The land impedes the free propagation of the tidal wave and introduces a great variety in the nature of this phenomenon.”


So as @Bored chemist  says, you seem to be in agreement with us that the moon and sun are the primary reason for tides.
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Re: Why do tides disappear in some places?
« Reply #59 on: 02/09/2018 19:35:47 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 14:29:23
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 12:52:50
Call the sea where there are high tides, but there is no fast flow.
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Last post 03/12/2010 21:26:48
by yor_on
Is there any connection between high tides and earthquakes?

Started by w.h.rogersBoard Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology

Replies: 5
Views: 7533
Last post 03/06/2010 10:27:46
by Eric A. Taylor
Does the moon create atmospheric tides?

Started by TitanscapeBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 11
Views: 4123
Last post 02/12/2018 09:19:52
by Colin2B
How does Earth's rotation affect tides?

Started by Wessel Jurrius Board Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 3
Views: 5718
Last post 02/01/2017 09:47:39
by yor_on
Could biblical flood have been caused by tides?

Started by nicephotogBoard Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology

Replies: 8
Views: 907
Last post 01/08/2020 23:53:20
by alancalverd
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