[Bored chemist]

Max Keiser did an interview of John Rubino (DollarCollapes.com).
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/483230-vaccine-covid-19-pandemic/
at 22 minutes:
John says that there are two scenarios to fix a broken financial system. The 1930s deflationary depression where all the debt gets wiped off through default, or a Wiemar Germany hyperinflation where one attempts to wipe out the debt by inflating it away. Both are extremely painful. No other way to normality. But BC will come to the rescue - we hope.

Before 2008, the Fed said it knew how to break the cycle of boom and bust. Alan Greenspan was revered as such a guru and financial expert, but he was trying to flout the basics of economics - as if the second law of thermodynamics could be ignored and entropy reversed. They are still trying to keep a zombie economy afloat.

My wife and I do not know how or where to invest at a time like this. We have just not put all our eggs in one basket, and are hoping that diversification will help. The long lines at the supermarkets are quite clear in Joburg. Traffic in the streets is down. How does one quarantine a squatter camp? How do people who live from day to day stay in a 2 x 2 meter tin shack for 30 to 60 days?

But why are such people not among the explosion of cases as they normally are? They are the drivers, the porters, the cleaners and so on.

While I agree with Max on many things, cryptocurrency is not one of them. It is interesting that gold is not rising. For two reasons - those who have bought in 2008 and are holding on, and those who need to sell to pay their margin calls.

It's a bit like worship; you can post about God or Mammon, but not both.

[alancalverd]

Why is the medical profession the most worried?

Professionally, because an epidemic is reputationally harmful.
Personally, because the best way to get infected is to get up close and personal to someone with a disease. Kinda goes with the job.

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:04:54

    It is interesting that gold is not rising.

Err. yes... if you like...

I follow gold. It was steady for a number of years, and then started to rise with the corona virus fears. But, instead of a sharp rise the last week because of a flight to safety, gold bounced around. People are selling to pay for their stock losses. Do some reading and check the general consensus.

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 07:56:28

    Fox News had nothing but corona stories.

Citing faux news does not improve your credibility.

Fox News had the most corona stories compared to other networks who paid no attention. In one week, all news outlets are solid corona related. In one week, the enormity of what we face has hit home. Yet I still hear people saying it will be no worse than the ordinary flu. Yeah right.

[CliveG]

It's a bit like worship; you can post about God or Mammon, but not both.

Huh? God does not like the worship of money. I am pointing that out.

At the same time, I am pointing out that even if God does not exist, the laws of economics apply. But common sense and a look at the overall situation is the best guide.

I often imagine countries to be like a family in a house. A large family moves into a large house with expensive fittings and they start stripping the house to live well. It cannot last. This was seen many times as wealthy areas declined.

In South Africa we had a country full of assets and potential. The politicians are busy stripping it bare. Same as Zimbabwe. In the USA, they live on debt. And one cannot cure a debt problem with more debt. Just as the afterlife judgement will surely come to pass, so will an economic correction will also surely come to pass. So sayeth Clive (using the spirit of common sense)   

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 07:56:28

    Still in denial. I take it you are not in a "hot" zone.

So, remind me, what have I "denied"?
It's not clear how "hot" this zone (The UK) is. I have been sent home from work.

My wife's son has decided to start stocking. He had talked to colleagues in Europe who had been quarantined at home who said they wished they had stocked up. My wife is now asking me whether we have enough. The spare room has to first bulge at the seams I said. But I need to fast for a while so it may be a blessing in disguise. Fasting is good but not when one is ill.

I have some unusual aches and pains, including a headache. Both my wife and I have had tight chests with a bit of difficulty breathing. Highly unlikely to be corona but it indicates we must be vigilant. I told my wife not to take me to the hospital if I collapse and cannot talk. Put me to bed. We are looking after our grandchild because her school is closed. Her chest is a bit congested.

This morning I go to hand out a notice to all workers that my wife's factory will close. I have said for a couple of years she should close. Finally she has agreed. 4 weeks notice and 6 weeks severance pay for each worker. Plus they get their provident fund and unemployment insurance. The trouble is selling the equipment and renting the building is tough in there times. Praying that God helps.

[Bored chemist]

Huh? God does not like the worship of money. I am pointing that out.

So, nothing to do with the topic then.
Why did you preach it at us?
Don't bother to answer that, just try to stick to the point in future. This thread's long enough.

[Bored chemist]

Just as the afterlife judgement will surely come to pass

No it won't.
Stop begging the question

[Bored chemist]

In one week, all news outlets are solid corona related. In one week, the enormity of what we face has hit home.

It has been on the news here for months.

However, if you look at the video here, you can see that Fox started off by belittling the threat, and only recently caught up with the rest of the world.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/media/fox-news-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/media/fox-news-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html

[alancalverd]

Praying that God helps.

Come off it, Clive. God created COVID inter alia to put your wife's employees on the breadline (not that there's any bread). An omniscient being has no defence of "unintended consequences" - this is deliberate impoverishment and murder on a global scale. Why on earth should he change his mind in response to your petty grumbling?

[CliveG]

Huh? God does not like the worship of money. I am pointing that out.

So, nothing to do with the topic then.
Why did you preach it at us?
Don't bother to answer that, just try to stick to the point in future. This thread's long enough.

If you know the qualities of God - you should if there is a possibility that science can prove he exists - then you know that greed and the love of money above one's fellow human is abominable to God. A correction is in order. I said that one way for science to prove God exists is to look at certain predictions and I mentioned Joan of Arc and Muhammad. Now I am claiming that God has given me information that there will be a Great Die-Off to correct the lack of spiritual behavior and the growing greed and hedonism.

So science knows that one looks at a prediction and how closely events follow the prediction and then decides whether the prediction could have possibly had input from God. One can scientifically test this in a laboratory experiment to predict a sequence of cards from a random deck against the statistical odds of random guessing.

But science should recognize that an intelligent entity does not have to agree to comply with the test. People do not have "powers". The "gift" is a connection to spirit who decides to play the game a different way. He gives people a message and information and then lets the science world and the religious world decide whether it is an indication (a hint) that God exists and that there are benefits to a belief.

I have challenged this forum to "test" me by examining my claims and my anecdotes and decide how many are explainable by "ordinary" human mental performance and how many are "unusual" and can only be answered by assuming that my hypothesis has truth in it. Take each anecdote, break it down and analyze it objectively and then fit explanations. The problem is objectivity. Most, if not all, people are biased one way or the other.

Travel is now restricted. A bit late at the moment. But my prediction is that it will seem we have beaten the virus only to have another wave.

[CliveG]

Just as the afterlife judgement will surely come to pass

No it won't.
Stop begging the question

Says the one who has not the slightest experience in such matters. Are you going to be one of those souls that are judged to be terminated? No problem while you live on Earth, and no problem if you find yourself being judged. You will get what you expect - no afterlife.

[CliveG]

In one week, all news outlets are solid corona related. In one week, the enormity of what we face has hit home.

It has been on the news here for months.

However, if you look at the video here, you can see that Fox started off by belittling the threat, and only recently caught up with the rest of the world.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/media/fox-news-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/media/fox-news-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html

Can you get anything right? There are times I wonder about people's brains. You are supposedly one of the top percentile yet you display a lot of the brain malfunctions you attribute to me. Sigh. I read somewhere that having a good memory and being above average intelligence has its burdens - like dealing with others who do not. I am good with the average person because most know their limitations and are pleasant about it, but it is the ones who have a strange agenda that are an issue. But at least you challenge me so that I can keep posting. Some people are following this thread it seems. I would love to know the cross-section of views.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/18/tucker-carlson-americas-new-moral-leader/
Whatever the explanation for the coverage, Carlson has been right about the threat of the coronavirus. He hopped on the story and stayed on it, while others on TV news dipped in and out — including his prime-time Fox News cohort Sean Hannity. Here’s Carlson’s explanation to Vanity Fair about the origins of the focus: “January is when we first started covering it on the show. And you know, there have been a number of epidemics to come out of China — the 1957 flu epidemic, which killed 100,000 people in this country. And so when these reports began to emerge, we covered it.”

Tucker Carlson did a show in which he assailed the other news networks for covering the elections and the impeachment and ignoring the corona virus threat. He is right. I check the following internet news almost daily. Fox, USA Today, CNN, Politico, BBC, Al Jazeera, and occasionally CCTV and RTTV. Carlson was the only one saying to people the virus should be taken more seriously. There were times when there was not one piece in any of the US outlets. I am not going to do an analysis of each day - my memory is sufficient. You can drag up any fake news you like. I know what I saw from the beginning of the year.

[CliveG]

Praying that God helps.

Come off it, Clive. God created COVID inter alia to put your wife's employees on the breadline (not that there's any bread). An omniscient being has no defence of "unintended consequences" - this is deliberate impoverishment and murder on a global scale. Why on earth should he change his mind in response to your petty grumbling?

God created COVID! Now there is an admission that God exists.

But I know you are being sarcastic - why would a loving God create a nasty virus. You are quite right that God is aware of all consequences. But why does he have to create COVID when humankind created ideal conditions for both viral mutation and viral spread. Science knew this not only could happen but would happen. They did not, and do not know, the whens, the hows and the trajectory. And society just worried about expansion and profit.

The message I got was that God knew what was coming - and has chosen to let it play out so that humankind can learn from its mistakes. Control population and pollution. Be more democratic and take care of the poor. Be more spiritual. I can already hear people saying they need to work together. Neighbors are getting to know each other and some are working for their communities.

The people my wife employed were lucky to have a person who did not just shut down her factory years ago despite all her business friends (and me) telling her it should be done. Those people benefited. When I did the compulsory consultations they accept they have been well treated, unlike others who do not pay them even their last salaries before tossing them out. A few employees see the opportunity to start their own small businesses and have asked if we can sell them some of the smaller equipment such as welding machines.

My wife has earned her place in heaven, but I can see how blessed she is on this earth. Just another bit of evidence that there is a good probability that God exists.

[Bored chemist]

Just checking.
Is this the Fox news who you say were leading the world in warning people about Corvid?
https://god.dailydot.com/fox-news-coronavirus-reversal/?fbclid=IwAR3FXoLaquyjKh3iMyy7AVf2Il1XYDHp9lc3cR_DwzcthkeS5sPvLRWGKGs

[alancalverd]

So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.

humankind can learn from its mistakes.

Garbage. Eating bats may well be a mistake, but visiting Singapore on business and going skiing with friends without knowing you are infected, isn't. The mistake that "humankind" is making seems to be trying to treat people with infectious disease and thereby getting infected. I don't recall a majority vote of all humans to silence the doctor who first identified the disease. Humankind is suffering from the mistakes and dogmatic idiocy of a few, not the entire species.

Anyway it's good to know that other gods are just as useless. Just seen a TV clip of an Iranian cleric last week explaining why he was immune to COVID because he had drunk holy water. He is now dead, having never tasted whisky or champagne.

My wife has earned her place in heaven, but I can see how blessed she is on this earth. Just another bit of evidence that there is a good probability that God exists.

Non sequitur. Evidence of a benign human capitalist, yes. And clearly one fighting against the disaster your god has wrought upon the innocent.

[Bored chemist]

So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.

Worse than that, Clive's God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing  full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
To top it off, he then convinced the people that it was their fault.

Nasty piece of work.

[Europan Ocean]

So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.

Worse than that, Clive's God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing  full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
To top it off, he then convinced the people that it was their fault.

Nasty piece of work.

You seem to hold to finding much fault with the Father of Jesus Bored Chemist, what is the root of your disagreement and why do you hold fast?

[CliveG]

So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.

Worse than that, Clive's God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing  full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
To top it off, he then convinced the people that it was their fault.

Nasty piece of work.

There are some issues.

The biggest issue is that BC and Alan do not grasp the concept of either the God of my hypothesis (the CG God) and the God of the Old Testament (the OT God) and the God of the New Testament (the NT God), other mythical Gods, and the God of the Atheists (the AT God).

These are all concepts that describe the attributes of the God that exists or does not exist. The AT God is a caricature whose key attributes are tailored to be the subject of ridicule. It is the most anthropomorphic God of all - whose human failings are so extreme that one wonders how atheists came to construct such an image. The AT God does not even meet the standards of the mythical Gods whose human emotions wreaked havoc with ordinary humans.

The OT God was a vengeful God who picked favorites and whose faults (according to the OT) were problematic. The influence of priests and rabbis was quite clear. The NT God has the problem of being all-loving and all-forgiving (up to a point) which conflicts with an all powerful creator. The CG God is a player in the dream of the Ultimate Intelligence and has limits which explain why he observes at times and intervenes at times.

Alan and BC are conflating all these Gods in order to discredit the CG God. It may very well be the Ultimate Intelligence first made a perfect world in his dream and then decided it was boring. Hence evil was introduced. The manner in which it was introduced gave rise to two concepts. Free will and Satan.

The free will is what happens when God simply observes. Satan takes the evil introduced by into humans by knowledge and power and tempts people thus making their innate evil even worse. God interferes at times so humankind does not annihilate itself but also gives humankind hope and inspiration to strive for a better place. The Biblical story may be mythical but may also have an underpinning of truth.

A huge mistake is that Alan and BC do not grasp the incredible extent of the Ultimate Intelligence and of the God that is part of this almost infinite mind. God can listen to every prayer and grant even some small ones. The ultimate in multi-tasking. He can cause the moon to be "just right" by the angle, speed and size of the chuck of rock that hit the early Earth. Same with the dinosaur meteor hit.

The Ultimate Intelligence can stop the dream and rewind and even focus on individual players because it is all part of an almost infinite mind. I say almost infinite because there is no time or space.

Getting angry about mass murder and global suffering misses the point. Yes, the trajectory is known by God who chooses to let a mass Die-Off happen. He helps some and not others. In most cases, it does not affect the grand plan but if there is someone who is destined to be a great leader they will be protected.

People ask why the Black Death and the Holocaust were allowed to happen. They were not creations of God. Either they were creations of Satan with his limited powers, or the laws of physics and nature were allowed to take their course. There are lessons to be learned and a change of direction in society. Some lessons are not being learned. Both of those two lessons are only partly recognized.

[Bored chemist]

Alan and BC are conflating all these Gods in order to discredit the CG God.

It is implausible that the OP and the first 90 replies in this thread referred to your own personal guess about God.
Your preaching about your own personal sky fairy is off topic.

Don't blame us for not focussing on a figment of your imagination.

God can listen to every prayer and grant even some small ones.

He knew what prayer would be spoken, and He knew what answer He would give. The concept of an all knowing  God is inconsistent with prayer actually working.